9.0 General Discussion

[George Costanza]

There is zero chance we ever get an expac as bad as WoD, and WoD was amazing the first week or so anyways. Even if we just get mythic+, pvp, world quests, and raids thats still a lot better than WoD.

I am aware.

What i was trying to get to was the fact that just because there is no "AP Grind" doesnt mean we will get another WoD.

[Nyel]

Well, other than the new War Campaign, but that's going to be either mirrored quests or even lazier than BFA's, given it's being split four ways instead of two this time.

I really think Covenants are nothing more than reputation dailies you got back in the day. I imagine it as follows: every zone has its own questline that is based on the Covenant there and everybody can play that. On top of that, if you choose a Covenant, you'll get a small amount of additional quests. This way everybody can experience basically every Covenant. Yet it will all be the same boring stuff.

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Where was the content in TBC, Wrath or Mists that Shadowlands is lacking?

Raids in TBC and WotLK were way more worthwile than any raid after LFR was introduced. That was a good junk of (great) content.

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There is zero chance we ever get an expac as bad as WoD, and WoD was amazing the first week or so anyways. Even if we just get mythic+, pvp, world quests, and raids thats still a lot better than WoD.

If you ask a ton of people, BfA took WoD's throne. Funny part is, BfA has a lot more content but most of it plain sucks. WoD had way less content but overall it was more enjoyable.

Right after 8.3 was released I read a ton of opinions on YouTube, forums etc. that BfA is indeed worse than WoD after its lifetime. Which, in my opinion, is true. But I already had that feeling right after BfA launched.

[Chickat]

I really think Covenants are nothing more than reputation dailies you got back in the day. I imagine it as follows: every zone has its own questline that is based on the Covenant there and everybody can play that. On top of that, if you choose a Covenant, you'll get a small amount of additional quests. This way everybody can experience basically every Covenant. Yet it will all be the same boring stuff.

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Raids in TBC and WotLK were way more worthwile than any raid after LFR was introduced. That was a good junk of (great) content.

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If you ask a ton of people, BfA took WoD's throne. Funny part is, BfA has a lot more content but most of it plain sucks. WoD had way less content but overall it was more enjoyable.

Right after 8.3 was released I read a ton of opinions on YouTube, forums etc. that BfA is indeed worse than WoD after its lifetime. Which, in my opinion, is true. But I already had that feeling right after BfA launched.

Wod had better dungeons and raids. Apexis dailys are not better than standard world quests. I dont care what anyone says. WoD is an embarrassment. BFA is meh, but WoD was WTF.

[Craaazyyy]

Wod had better dungeons and raids. Apexis dailys are not better than standard world quests. I dont care what anyone says. WoD is an embarrassment. BFA is meh, but WoD was WTF.

WoD also had much better class design and gearing system.. so WoD > BfA

[matrix123mko]

Oh I see. Yeah it sadly suffers like all robe sets from being a robe set.

I think robes have potential for being something more.

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We are also bound to get big spoilers via models. Say we get a brand new amazing model for someone like C'thun or Anub'arak its pretty exciting. Its the afterlife. We could technically meet almost anyone. I actually hope Anub'arak is in the undead zone. It would be sweet seeing him again. There is only 1 person I hope we don't see. Arthas. If we do see him, I don't want a redemption story either. A villain that I would like to get a semi redemption story is Deathwing. Or rather Neltharion. I also dont want anyone to come back to life. I do hope Anduin gets to have a conversation with Varian, but rather a proud father moment with some closure.

I also hope we see Guldan in the Maw. I wanna see him suffer like the worm he is.

For Arthas, I don't want him to get a redemption arc or anything like that. Just a small confrontation with his son.

Anub'arak could redeem himself as our ally against Kel'thuzad, as our lich is speculated to cause some problems in Maldraxxus.

Neltharion would be great siege engine to attack Jailor at the end of expansion.

Gul'dan must meet second Gul'dan as they both died in the same reality.

[letssee]

I think robes have potential for being something more.

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For Arthas, I don't want him to get a redemption arc or anything like that. Just a small confrontation with his son.

Anub'arak could redeem himself as our ally against Kel'thuzad, as our lich is speculated to cause some problems in Maldraxxus.

Neltharion would be great siege engine to attack Jailor at the end of expansion.

Gul'dan must meet second Gul'dan as they both died in the same reality.

arthas son, u mean like anduin?

[Chickat]

WoD also had much better class design and gearing system.. so WoD > BfA

Yeah, fun classes with nothing to do. WoD class design was also much worse than MoP and prior so dont act like it was the pinnacle of gameplay. I 100% guarantee you in 2 expansions people will remember BFA more fondly than WoD. The only reason it loses polls now is because its fresh in everyone's mind and WoD isn't.

[Craaazyyy]

Yeah, fun classes with nothing to do. WoD class design was also much worse than MoP and prior so dont act like it was the pinnacle of gameplay. I 100% guarantee you in 2 expansions people will remember BFA more fondly than WoD. The only reason it loses polls now is because its fresh in everyone's mind and WoD isn't.

yeah it was much worse than wrath/cata/mop, but it was still better than anything after it.. and it made everything there was like dungeons/raids/pvp much more fun

again, i quit in early WoD and only played both Legion and BFA for maybe 2 months, but WoD still was more fun simply because classes weren't completely and utterly destroyed yet

[Nyel]

WoD also had much better class design and gearing system.. so WoD > BfA

Let's hope Shadowlands fixes these issues but with what we know by now - it won't. It will most likely double down on it which might be a mistake so irredeemable that it really threatens the future of WoW.

[Craaazyyy]

Let's hope Shadowlands fixes these issues but with what we know by now - it won't. It will most likely double down on it which might be a mistake so irredeemable that it really threatens the future of WoW.

well we can only hope, but realistically they will not going to fix shit.. they almost never admit to their mistakes. Sure they've been saying that they made some mistakes with pruning too much and with other shit, but that doesn't mean anything, it could be just words.. let's wait for proper beta, but then again i doubt they will make enough changes to fix the problem, giving back a couple of abilities will not fix anything. It might make it a tad better, but the game needs much more, classes need much more stuff to them, because every class lost so much since cata/mop

[ExiHext]

well we can only hope, but realistically they will not going to fix shit.. they almost never admit to their mistakes. Sure they've been saying that they made some mistakes with pruning too much and with other shit, but that doesn't mean anything, it could be just words.. let's wait for proper beta, but then again i doubt they will make enough changes to fix the problem, giving back a couple of abilities will not fix anything. It might make it a tad better, but the game needs much more, classes need much more stuff to them, because every class lost so much since cata/mop

Oh, they admit most of their mistakes in new expansion blogs and dev coolers...the problem is, they don't fix what they broke, they even make it worse.
I don't expect all my concerns being adressed, but perhaps they get at least a better gameplay than we have now. God, I wait for the expac where I don't have to wait one and a half year before my class finally gets palyable, because before that haste and all isn't high enough for proper gameplay.

[Nyel]

well we can only hope, but realistically they will not going to fix shit.. they almost never admit to their mistakes. Sure they've been saying that they made some mistakes with pruning too much and with other shit, but that doesn't mean anything, it could be just words.. let's wait for proper beta, but then again i doubt they will make enough changes to fix the problem, giving back a couple of abilities will not fix anything. It might make it a tad better, but the game needs much more, classes need much more stuff to them, because every class lost so much since cata/mop

The funny thing is, they started admitting their mistakes but they didn't care about fixing them. Saying how unsatisfying X is while keeping it as it is doesn't help at all, it just shows incompetence.

[Dreen]

well we can only hope, but realistically they will not going to fix shit.. they almost never admit to their mistakes. Sure they've been saying that they made some mistakes with pruning too much and with other shit, but that doesn't mean anything, it could be just words.. let's wait for proper beta, but then again i doubt they will make enough changes to fix the problem, giving back a couple of abilities will not fix anything. It might make it a tad better, but the game needs much more, classes need much more stuff to them, because every class lost so much since cata/mop

I agree with this alot, there are alot of systems im not really hyped about in shadowlands but if my class flows well again i honestly dont care much about the content thats available to me. If my class plays well i basically enjoy evry other part of the game, and if my class/specc is not fun, even good system come over as dull and boring. So while im not hopeful from what ive seen so far, theres no telling really untill class changes/gameplay is available

[Wangming]

The funny thing is, they started admitting their mistakes but they didn't care about fixing them. Saying how unsatisfying X is while keeping it as it is doesn't help at all, it just shows incompetence.

Yeah and even if they try to fix it? It will be done by the same team that has been gradually making classes worse since Pandaria. Or probably even before depending on your favorite spec. Of course it can still be better than what we have now, but yeah. I'm mostly here for the model datamine. And the customization options. Will FFXIV still have more hairstyles than WoW has customization options or will that change?

[Dracullus]

WoD also had much better class design and gearing system.. so WoD > BfA

Tell that my Arms Warrior with two buttons during 6.2. Maybe I just don't remember how much fun I had!

Yeah, fun classes with nothing to do. WoD class design was also much worse than MoP and prior so dont act like it was the pinnacle of gameplay. I 100% guarantee you in 2 expansions people will remember BFA more fondly than WoD. The only reason it loses polls now is because its fresh in everyone's mind and WoD isn't.

Obviously, you can see Nyel already warming up for hating SL. ;D It's rabbit hole they'll never come up from, because WoW is so vast game you can find shitty things in every single expansion - when raids are great (like now, I think only WoD and BfA are expacs without "weak" raid - but WoD had only 3), gearing is shitty; when they fix gearing, someone will screw up some raid bosses, etc.

[Craaazyyy]

Tell that my Arms Warrior with two buttons during 6.2. Maybe I just don't remember how much fun I had!

there's a lot more to class design than just rotation

[Sondrelk]

there's a lot more to class design than just rotation

Whenever i play Outlaw rogue in BfA i have tons of fun. The rotation is fun and interesting, even when i am doing terrible DPS i still feel like i am doing well.
Fact is there are always some specs that fall behind and end up being terrible. Let us not forget the infamous "We just don't want you playing Demonology".

[huth]

The funny thing is, they started admitting their mistakes but they didn't care about fixing them. Saying how unsatisfying X is while keeping it as it is doesn't help at all, it just shows incompetence.

They do fix them. The problem is that this takes far longer than the average attention span of you lot. Not the magic wand instafixes that you expect.

[Nyel]

Yeah and even if they try to fix it? It will be done by the same team that has been gradually making classes worse since Pandaria. Or probably even before depending on your favorite spec. Of course it can still be better than what we have now, but yeah. I'm mostly here for the model datamine. And the customization options. Will FFXIV still have more hairstyles than WoW has customization options or will that change?

I'm here because of Classic. It's funny how a 15 year old game keeps me better entertained than the newest WoW expansion. Even the completely bare bones class design in Classic gives me more than anything in BfA, I really don't understand it but that's the way it is.

Unfortunately I don't care at all about customization because it's WoW we play. I am used to the minimal customization options and it will never come close to FFXIV or ESO, so why even bother. It's nice that they add more to it in Shadowlands and I'll gladly customize my characters but that's not a feature or something that interests me or keeps me interested.

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They do fix them. The problem is that this takes far longer than the average attention span of you lot. Not the magic wand instafixes that you expect.

Yeah, their fixes to Azerite design from Azerite gear to Essences to corrupted gear was really an astonishing way of not-fixing the biggest problem of BfA. The same with class gameplay. They're fixing on the surface, at best. Or they are really trying to fix things but are just... incompetent? Unaware? I don't know.

[Sondrelk]

They do fix them. The problem is that this takes far longer than the average attention span of you lot. Not the magic wand instafixes that you expect.

There is also the fact that sometimes the fixes themselves are not good enough either. BfA attempted to fix all it's major problem in Azerite, Islands and Warfronts. But seeing as none of the fixes seemed to stymie the outrage Blizzard decided to abandon it until Shadowlands.
Some problems are simply too large to fix within a patch, and some are too ingrained to be fixed within an expansion. Blizzard did attempt ot fix islands, and while they are better than at launch, their problems are too fundemental to their design to be fixed within an expansion.

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Yeah, their fixes to Azerite design from Azerite gear to Essences to corrupted gear was really an astonishing way of not-fixing the biggest problem of BfA. The same with class gameplay. They're fixing on the surface, at best.

They do however attempt to fix things. Whether the fix works is another issue entirely.
Islands were samey at the beginning of the expansion, they were made more random, which helped, but the problem was still there because the base problems were too fundamental. Blizzard realized that before 8.2, which is why there have been no major changes to the way islands work, except the loot crates which is almost entirely removed from it.
Warfronts did not become better when the HC version came along, so attempting to fix it was just going to waste Shadowlands dev time.