Please no more AP grind, no Netherlight / no Azerite, No Essences / No Corruption

[Xath]

Majority of players do not raid and also do not run mythic+ so what those peole are going to do after finishing LFR?

Not hit max level since the majority of players never hit max level if you want to try that bs. People who actually hit max level do tend to do either M+ or raid at least casually.

[Kralljin]

The argument of AP being a grind or not is really just arguing over sematics.

The point of a progression system (such as AP) is to give people a reason to engage in a given content.

Take gear for example, do you think everybody loves M+ to the point where they feel obliged to go into the highest Key possible every week?
No, but because you get a big reward out of it at the end of the week.

Same goes for leveling (which is also just a basic form of a progression system), you're not doing every quest because you like them so much, but because you want to level your character, because you want to get new abilities or even simply to reach max level.

The key of a progression system is to give people a reason to engage in a given content, that's why people go into dungeons, that's why people do quests.

With AP however, the issue is that the content that awards AP (World quests and Island expeditions) aren't exactly great content, on top of that, the progression system itself is simply quite boring.
The "rewards" from AP simply aren't good, the ability to socket minor Essences isn't that amazing, these are mostly just statboosts.

And i think that's the core issue at hand, not AP "being a grind", but the fact that a system, which is central to the gameplay loop of WoW (which is after all character progression) isn't fun.
The fact that the only solution Blizzard came up with (so far) is to nerf it by 30% every week until you can basically ignore any content that awards just AP highlights how much of a bogus system this is.

Imagine if you really hate doing M+ (them not being difficult, you just don't like doing them), you just get a piece from M+ anyway every few weeks, so you still have the power upgrade.
Or if you could just wait a few months, because the XP required to level up is nerfed by 30% each week until you can do a handful of quests and are maxlevel.

If a system that every player, be it raider, PvP'er or M+ has to engage in, it needs to be fun and the solution cannot be that you can not play the game until you can basically ignore this aspect or the time required for it has reached a minimum.
That's a bandaid fix solution, not a fundamental aspect of this system.

It's not a "win" for the players if a system, which is supposed to encourage me to engage in a given content, nerfs itself into irrelevance, that's in my opinion just a creative bankruptcy on Blizzards part.

[huth]

Yes and No. A grind is doing a repetitive similar content for a goal - the best way to farm AP is AP world quests/ emissaries or islands. All of that is similar content and you need to do a lot of it.

Mostly true except for the last part. You can easily be 80+ with no more than three Mythic(or four HC) islands a week and only doing AP quests that you happen across or have an associated Emissary for, or even less than that. You're vastly overestimating the AP requirements if you think grinding islands was at any point in BfA ever actually necessary for that.

And grinding isn't just repetitive, otherwise 1/week activities would qualify. It needs to be repeatable beyond reasonable ability to exhaust supply and be repeated in short order to qualify. Which means AP WQ actually do not qualify either, as it very much is possible to do them faster than they refresh.

Plus you get rewarded per dungeons normally - is it a grind if you typically get an item every 1-2 dungeons?

Yes, because that isn't actually related. What makes it a grind is the constant doing dungeons, though i'd disagree that 5 actually qualify for a grind. Whether you get an item every dungeon, every 5 dungeons or every 10 doesn't matter.

[dlhak]

Please Blizzard, for the love of all that's holy, STOP with the BS systems introduced in BfA and Legion.

-Get rid of Azerite and AP grinds
-No more Netherlight Crucible type crap
-No Azerite traits shit gear, that can't be swapped to different specs like old Tier gear
-No Essences
-No Corruption
-No Table mission crap

STOP it already. All of these things sucked so bad, and are just such a stupid pointless grind. Go back to gearing up through Dungeons first, then Raids second. You want to gear up, you run a Normal dungeon, then get better gear in a Heroic dungeon, then better gear again in a Mythic dungeon. You want even better gear, run a Heroic Raid, and you want the BiS gear you run Mythic Raids. That's it. No fucking AP grind, no Artifact weapon. No Corruption bullshit.

Have tokens or badges that drop off bosses in Raids, that you then purchase gear from Raid NPC vendors in the main city.

Design the class and specs so good from the start of the new expansion, that none of these stupid grindy systems are even needed whatsoever, go back to something similar to the MoP and WoD class type builds and systems

This video sums up a lot of my thinking on the current state of game ( it's not WoW MMO anymore but a ARPG like Diablo instead )
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A86A9s_IEQg

This XX grinding and RNG in every aspect of the game killed my love for the game.

[Mardux]

Yep the expansion of the devs pitching a fit over flying definitely shows more than vanilla/bc/wrath/cata/mop none of which had uncapped grinds.

Man.. I wish hydraxian wasn't about as "uncapped" as any bfa grinds.

[ercarp]

-Get rid of Azerite and AP grinds

They already said they're going to.

-No more Netherlight Crucible type crap

While it wasn't a particularly memorable system, I don't remember hating it as much as I hate the current systems.

-No Azerite traits shit gear, that can't be swapped to different specs like old Tier gear
-No Essences
-No Corruption

Agreed on all of these. Get rid of them.

-No Table mission crap

Having survived both Legion and BfA since they were added in WoD, there's no way they're ever going to get rid of Mission Tables at this point.

[schwarzkopf]

s considered a "grind" by virtue of the fact that it is a chore..

If you consider just playing the game to be a chore, that is fine - that is an opinion one can have. However - as to why you are playing a game you don't enjoy, that is a mystery.

Opinions aside - there is objectively no grind required to get AP.

I've got 30% of the way to 81 on my neck and in the last week, and I have NO interest in AP at all. It just happens.

[Xath]

Man.. I wish hydraxian wasn't about as "uncapped" as any bfa grinds.

Uncapped means no end. Hydraxian ended at exalted stop bsing.

- - - Updated - - -

If you consider just playing the game to be a chore, that is fine - that is an opinion one can have. However - as to why you are playing a game you don't enjoy, that is a mystery.

Opinions aside - there is objectively no grind required to get AP.

I've got 30% of the way to 81 on my neck and in the last week, and I have NO interest in AP at all. It just happens.

It just happens that you clear the map of world quests that other people find boring content with no challenge in it.

[schwarzkopf]

It just happens that you clear the map of world quests that other people find boring content with no challenge in it.

I do not - I said no grind is required. I certainly don't do more than 2 or 3 WQs on average per day. Never have and never will.

[Xath]

I do not - I said no grind is required. I certainly don't do more than 2 or 3 WQs on average per day. Never have and never will.

Yeah don't lie lol you aren't 30% of the way to 81 without doing any emissaries or world quests.

[huth]

Having survived both Legion and BfA since they were added in WoD, there's no way they're ever going to get rid of Mission Tables at this point.

I'd say the opposite. They cut down on them each time, and so far, there's been no announcement of an equivalent SL system, so it very much looks like it's going away.

[RobertMugabe]

Please Blizzard, for the love of all that's holy, STOP with the BS systems introduced in BfA and Legion.

-Get rid of Azerite and AP grinds
-No more Netherlight Crucible type crap
-No Azerite traits shit gear, that can't be swapped to different specs like old Tier gear
-No Essences
-No Corruption
-No Table mission crap

STOP it already. All of these things sucked so bad, and are just such a stupid pointless grind. Go back to gearing up through Dungeons first, then Raids second. You want to gear up, you run a Normal dungeon, then get better gear in a Heroic dungeon, then better gear again in a Mythic dungeon. You want even better gear, run a Heroic Raid, and you want the BiS gear you run Mythic Raids. That's it. No fucking AP grind, no Artifact weapon. No Corruption bullshit.

Have tokens or badges that drop off bosses in Raids, that you then purchase gear from Raid NPC vendors in the main city.

Design the class and specs so good from the start of the new expansion, that none of these stupid grindy systems are even needed whatsoever, go back to something similar to the MoP and WoD class type builds and systems

This video sums up a lot of my thinking on the current state of game ( it's not WoW MMO anymore but a ARPG like Diablo instead )
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A86A9s_IEQg

Srsly can you like look up what they're planing for SL before writing these BS threads?

None of this is coming into SL, not even AP. It's been confirmed at blizzcon.

[schwarzkopf]

Yeah don't lie lol you aren't 30% of the way to 81 without doing any emissaries or world quests.

"It just happens that you clear the map of world quests"

≠

"doing any emissaries or world quests."

If you don't want to be rational, at least be consistent dude.

[huth]

Yeah don't lie lol you aren't 30% of the way to 81 without doing any emissaries or world quests.

Which is completely different from clearing the map each day, as you claimed beforehand.

[valky94]

I never said every day - and besides - that's not what I mean. Not in 8.3, no - but in the start of the expansion if you wanted to keep up you had to. Which is obviously a bad thing, but doesn't change the fact it was a requirement.

Anyone who says the AP grind isn't a grind either doesn't know what a grind is, or is a liar - either way I'm not wasting more energy arguing about an objective fact

i know what a grind is, and doing 3 islands and a handful of WQs a week aint it chief

[kaminaris]

You're simply lying, how about that?

Nope, I am not doing world quest nor emissaries.
Currently in this expansion I have done on my main 196 world quests, my ilvl is 469.63, heart of azeroth 78.
Oh and I forgot to mention but I usually send 2 table missions for azerite per day, so that is also pretty decent amount.
Other than that I do ~5 M+ per week (~15-19)
Heroic raid + couple of M bosses.

- - - Updated - - -

Yeah don't lie lol you aren't 30% of the way to 81 without doing any emissaries or world quests.

It is perfectly possible. Considering I am not doing any world quest whatsoever, and if I do, it's a WQ for blue upgrade stone for battle pet and I am at 78.
So if he does sometimes emissaries he should be around 80.

Plus you can send missions for AP from table each day, that gives you quite some amount.

[huth]

Well, you're very welcome to carry on not knowing what a grind is, I don't know what else to tell ya

Learn it yourself first before you try correcting others.

[valky94]

Well, you're very welcome to carry on not knowing what a grind is, I don't know what else to tell ya

doing 3 mythic islands and a few WQs a week to do emissaries is playing the game blizzard intended it to, doing 20 islands a week and doing every AP WQ on the map is grinding, it seems to me that you you are lacking the knowledge

[Magistrate]

You want to gear up you run dungeons you want even better gear you Raid. End of story that's it No other ways to get epic gear.

???

They let players get all kinds of OP gear from titanforging from like any source and players CRIED about that. How did you miss this?

[SinR]

Nope, Sorry, 32489 layers of RNG For us next expansion!