Razorgore, destroyer of guilds

[deenman]

I guess I'm confused on how you could possibly not DPS well in classic. All the BiS gear is well known. The rotation is well established. The rotation is SLOW as shit. You could damn near look away from the monitor and muscle memory your rotation.

this blows my mind also,we have the 1.12 buffs,everyone im asuming has good ms,that ALONE gains the group masive dps,but hey,if people can wipe on lfr trash multiple times...i guess its not a stretch to imagine people wiping on classic bosses

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You need 40 people, Not 30 or 35, 40.

you dont NEED 40,it makes it easier but it can be done with around 20 ish,even less if they are overgeared or op classes

[Daymanmb]

you dont NEED 40,it makes it easier but it can be done with around 20 ish,even less if they are overgeared or op classes

Whats the point of even saying this? What 20 man raid is going to be over geared for BWL, when it just came out? If youre saying you can 20m BWL after AQ or Naxx are out, who cares, theyre not out right now...

[deenman]

Whats the point of even saying this? What 20 man raid is going to be over geared for BWL, when it just came out? If youre saying you can 20m BWL after AQ or Naxx are out, who cares, theyre not out right now...

you can do it in 20 now,i said you can do it even with less when overgeared,and why do it?well why have 40 people compete for loot when you can have 20?plus it adds some actual challenge to the raids,before bwl guilds were doing 10 man runs

[Daymanmb]

you can do it in 20 now,i said you can do it even with less when overgeared,and why do it?well why have 40 people compete for loot when you can have 20?plus it adds some actual challenge to the raids,before bwl guilds were doing 10 man runs

I mean, I dont want to say its impossible, but you think, right now, a raid of 20 can skirt past Vael np?

[deenman]

I mean, I dont want to say its impossible, but you think, right now, a raid of 20 can skirt past Vael np?

uhm,the boss was killed in less than a minute with 40 people....you really think 20 is gonna be hard?im not playing classic anymore,but im pretty sure its been done by now

[Nitros14]

uhm,the boss was killed in less than a minute with 40 people....you really think 20 is gonna be hard?im not playing classic anymore,but im pretty sure its been done by now

https://classic.warcraftlogs.com/zon....1.30&boss=611

Smallest raid to kill Vaelastrasz and put a log on warcraftlogs is 28.

[Beet]

Hi Everyone.

Our guild got stuck on this piece of Nefarian's art.
We aren't APES. We are 30-35. Our dps parses are rarely beat 50% in MC.

Our best was to leave 3 eggs.

Now we have plans to ignore and kite legionnaires, our warriors mastered it.
Drakes after mages, with cc and lite by hunters, 2-3 for one. 1 for each druid.
Minus aggro talents and no huge heals are new healing orders.

We are 80% mc geared (it's just hard to ask 50old person to dps like a teen).

Four groups in corners.

What, by your opinion, is good to mention to get Razor to second phase?

Hey man. Serious answer here. Don’t post here. MMO-C is extremely hostile to classic players. I’m not even going to read the replies because I know what it will be filled with. You’ll be mocked by everyone.

anytime you need help goto the classicwow subreddit instead.

The fight isn’t that difficult though you just need to get your groups in order. The only mobs you need tanks on are the drackonoids. Your DPS warriors will get aggro on the other two and then they should die off before they get hurt too much.

You just need to priorize the grouping arrangement. But seriously man don’t look for help here.

One more tip. World buffs carry in classic. Gear isn’t nearly as important. A warrior for example will do more than double his damage with world buffs no matter what gear he has. And while BWL may be all about your tanks, your DPS can carry you on every fight except for Firemaw and to a lesser extent Chrommagus. Firemaw who was once a boss no one struggled with in vanilla is now the boss that stops the most guilds from progressing. And that’s because the DPS cannot carry due to the stacking mechanic.

[Daymanmb]

uhm,the boss was killed in less than a minute with 40 people....you really think 20 is gonna be hard?im not playing classic anymore,but im pretty sure its been done by now

Well, it gets exponentially harder the longer the fight goes on. How many tanks and healers do you take into a 20m BWL? Losing even one of either to adrenaline, makes the fight insanely difficult.

[Askyl]

uhm,the boss was killed in less than a minute with 40 people....you really think 20 is gonna be hard?im not playing classic anymore,but im pretty sure its been done by now

Show me your logs? Oh, didn't think so. Stop talking the big talk when your guild wipes 10 times on Vael before you kill him with 40 people.

[Heathy]

ideally you want to reach a point where you kill vael without even a single tank dying, likewise with nefarian ideally you want to reach a point where all your rogues don't die every raid during their call. because having ppl die every single raid gets expensive if it can be avoided. I think it took us 1minute and 10 seconds so we had me die and then the boss died with the second tank. the goal ofc is to have your tanks keep their world buffs for as long as possible. so even if it is possible with 20, most of them will be dead and all your buffs are gone so its not cost effective.

[deenman]

Show me your logs? Oh, didn't think so. Stop talking the big talk when your guild wipes 10 times on Vael before you kill him with 40 people.

what the heck?im not playing classic anymore,and what do MY logs/experience have to do with anything lol?i dont need to do the fight my self to see others doing it...rly weird reaction from you man

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https://classic.warcraftlogs.com/zon....1.30&boss=611

Smallest raid to kill Vaelastrasz and put a log on warcraftlogs is 28.

thnx,close enough,a bit more gear and it should go down with even less

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Well, it gets exponentially harder the longer the fight goes on. How many tanks and healers do you take into a 20m BWL? Losing even one of either to adrenaline, makes the fight insanely difficult.

true,but how many top dps are you taking in a 40 man?if among those 20 ish you take more op dps that can do double the dmg of others,it works out

[tikcol]

Whats the point of even saying this? What 20 man raid is going to be over geared for BWL, when it just came out? If youre saying you can 20m BWL after AQ or Naxx are out, who cares, theyre not out right now...

Jesus.. If people can do bwl in 30 mins do you honestly believe it can't be done with 20 people right now?

Just because some shitty guilds that are below semi organized pugs I do on my alts every week doesn't mean it's remotely hard. It just means those guilds suck monkey dick.

[Daymanmb]

Jesus.. If people can do bwl in 30 mins do you honestly believe it can't be done with 20 people right now?

Just because some shitty guilds that are below semi organized pugs I do on my alts every week doesn't mean it's remotely hard. It just means those guilds suck monkey dick.

Do it then. Stop talking about it and go do it. Go take 20 people into vael and pray your tanks or healers dont get adrenaline.

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thnx,close enough,a bit more gear and it should go down with even less

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true,but how many top dps are you taking in a 40 man?if among those 20 ish you take more op dps that can do double the dmg of others,it works out

For one, you said 20 can do it right now, which may be possible, but hasnt been done and 28 isnt "close enough". For two your experience matters because you dont seem to understand how vael works.

[Paulosio]

I haven't played classic but from what I remember, back in vanilla my guild definitely had hunters kite the the drakes around the edge of the room. We killed mages as priority.

Not sure about the Legionaires. They were either tanked / off tanked in the corners and killed as 2nd priority to mages OR we kited them with tanks but I can't remember which.

[BananaHandsB]

Scientific studies have shown that gaming competence deteriorates rapidly in your mid 30s. I agree, what is so hard about a 1 to 2 button rotation? But teenagers are far superior when it comes to gaming on average.

Link studies please. Sounds bogus af. I'm in my mid 30s and I've only gotten better since my teenage years. You're sitting at a computer, not running a a marathon.

[arkanon]

Link studies please. Sounds bogus af. I'm in my mid 30s and I've only gotten better since my teenage years. You're sitting at a computer, not running a a marathon.

Do you play retail, or classic? Could it be you are subconsciously seeking out much simpler and slower games?

[Gorsameth]

Razergore is easy. Cast Divine Intervention on Razergore. Soulstone a healer and you wipe. Ress up and skip the entirety of phase 1.

Don't think we ever bothered killing it legit in Vanilla.

[munkeyinorbit]

Link studies please. Sounds bogus af. I'm in my mid 30s and I've only gotten better since my teenage years. You're sitting at a computer, not running a a marathon.

As an established fact that is well known I don't need to link studies. They are numerous and easily available. Stop being lazy and find them yourself.

Experience being equal, younger people have the response times and reactions to deal with events at a quicker rate then older people. This has been documented for many tasks. If you think you're better than you were when a teenager you are just deluding yourself.

[Demetrion]

Hi Everyone.

Our guild got stuck on this piece of Nefarian's art.
We aren't APES. We are 30-35. Our dps parses are rarely beat 50% in MC.

Our best was to leave 3 eggs.

Now we have plans to ignore and kite legionnaires, our warriors mastered it.
Drakes after mages, with cc and lite by hunters, 2-3 for one. 1 for each druid.
Minus aggro talents and no huge heals are new healing orders.

We are 80% mc geared (it's just hard to ask 50old person to dps like a teen).

Four groups in corners.

What, by your opinion, is good to mention to get Razor to second phase?

Kill Legionares and Mages, kite/cc drakes and it's easy. have druids/locks hybernate/fear the drakes, split raid into 4 and cover each corner. Took us a few tries but managed to kill him with 37 people.

Thing is you can have maximum of 9 drakes in the encounter, so if you have enough people to kite/cc them you'll have much easier time.

Good luck.

[tikcol]

Do it then. Stop talking about it and go do it. Go take 20 people into vael and pray your tanks or healers dont get adrenaline.

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For one, you said 20 can do it right now, which may be possible, but hasnt been done and 28 isnt "close enough". For two your experience matters because you dont seem to understand how vael works.

It's going to be done as soon as some guild thinks it's worth the trouble over the simplicity of their usual sub 1 hour weekly run don't worry. But I'm sure you also thought it was impossible to clear it in 30 mins and gave this same 5 year old answer previously to someone so how about starting to delegate things like this to people that actually understand the game?