Razorgore, destroyer of guilds

[Daymanmb]

It's going to be done as soon as some guild thinks it's worth the trouble over the simplicity of their usual sub 1 hour weekly run don't worry. But I'm sure you also thought it was impossible to clear it in 30 mins and gave this same 5 year old answer previously to someone so how about starting to delegate things like this to people that actually understand the game?

Ive not once said its impossible. Actually the opposite, I said, "Im not saying its impossible", in an earlier quote. This is a learn to read issue on your part. The assertion was BWL could be cleared with 20 people, right now and thats purely hypothetical, it hasnt been done. Could it be done? Maybe, but Vaelastraz is going to be a major hurdle and I dont think it'll be done until raids are more progressed with better gear. On top of that youll need the perfect group comp and pray that your tanks/heals dont get adrenaline. Bad RNG and its over.

Also your non-sequitur about "what I also probably think" is the definition of a fallacy. Not only did I know guilds were using private servers to practice BWL, this content is 15 years old.. It was always going to be cleared day 1, it was just a matter of how fast.

[RoKPaNda]

Scientific studies have shown that gaming competence deteriorates rapidly in your mid 30s. I agree, what is so hard about a 1 to 2 button rotation? But teenagers are far superior when it comes to gaming on average.

Show me these studies? I've never seen a single one that has shown a significant decline before your 60s. There are studies that show that younger gamers perform better than older games but that doesn't measure the individual gamer's performance from young to older. This is more likely due to something like the Flynn effect and various outside factors like a 35 year old having less time to game than a 15 year old.

[deenman]

Do it then. Stop talking about it and go do it. Go take 20 people into vael and pray your tanks or healers dont get adrenaline.

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For one, you said 20 can do it right now, which may be possible, but hasnt been done and 28 isnt "close enough". For two your experience matters because you dont seem to understand how vael works.

I do understand how it works,its not a complex concept,you get a debuff,you dps hard,and you die,its been used plenty of times,bosses in nyalotha have the same mecanic,you get debuff,you go insane and get dmg buff,than you get mc,in your averege 40 man grp you wont take all warriors or mages dps,but if you do with 20 ish it will work out,some people are doing more than double than others

[tikcol]

Ive not once said its impossible. Actually the opposite, I said, "Im not saying its impossible", in an earlier quote. This is a learn to read issue on your part. The assertion was BWL could be cleared with 20 people, right now and thats purely hypothetical, it hasnt been done. Could it be done? Maybe, but Vaelastraz is going to be a major hurdle and I dont think it'll be done until raids are more progressed with better gear. On top of that youll need the perfect group comp and pray that your tanks/heals dont get adrenaline. Bad RNG and its over.

Also your non-sequitur about "what I also probably think" is the definition of a fallacy. Not only did I know guilds were using private servers to practice BWL, this content is 15 years old.. It was always going to be cleared day 1, it was just a matter of how fast.

It's beyhond known right now between pserver players that while pservers weren't 100% accurate most things that they got wrong were overtuned instead of undertuned.

So far it's been confirmed that ony/mc and bwl are easier in classic. I can tell you right now that bwl has been done before there with 20 people and it was a breeze.

If you want to continue your philosophical rant in the hopes you're right that's ok because I actually know what I'm talking about and I'm not taking this conversation as if I need to prove the meaning of life.

[Daymanmb]

It's beyhond known right now between pserver players that while pservers weren't 100% accurate most things that they got wrong were overtuned instead of undertuned.

So far it's been confirmed that ony/mc and bwl are easier in classic. I can tell you right now that bwl has been done before there with 20 people and it was a breeze.

If you want to continue your philosophical rant in the hopes you're right that's ok because I actually know what I'm talking about and I'm not taking this conversation as if I need to prove the meaning of life.

Im sure BWL has been done with 20 people lol.. Youre making up counter-arguments to points I have not made. Way to jump into a conversation half way through and miss half of what was said.. The conversation is that BWL can be done right now, with current gear, as in today, or tomorrow, or this reset.. Ive stated multiple times I dont think its impossible, but I think getting past vael would be the test that would be very challenging for 20 people, at this point in gear progression.

[faithbane]

Will try. Thanks for keeping talk beyond teenage.

I must say that I never played classic but I was raid leading in vanilla so I still remember some of the old strategies hopefully it will apply here

On the razorgore fight:

- we had around 4 to 6 shamans that were putting earthbind totems in designated spots (4 corners + 2 mid areas to kite over with agro) which made add management a lot easier + chain heal is healer version of derping here.

- put the drakes to sleep - there was a set number of them and we always had enough druids and if we didn't hunters kited them very easily especially with earthbind placements

- melee focused down mages and tanks picked up leggos and dragged them to casters or mages pretty much killed them before they could reach anyone in full slow.

- On top of that, boss itself had some big aoe/agro moves which helped gather some mobs and give some breathing room if something was going wrong and he could easily tank for a while and you can focus the mobs while they were on him but I wasn't in charge of it since I never used the orb so can't help you more on his abilities.

All of the above we did while BWL first opened and most of us were still in blues with very few bis pieces and ton of "inferior" specs. After you gear up a bit, BWL will be a breeze.

[XtraT]

Impressive on how so many of you took the bait.

[Thunderbull]

Hey man. Serious answer here. Don’t post here. MMO-C is extremely hostile to classic players. I’m not even going to read the replies because I know what it will be filled with. You’ll be mocked by everyone.

anytime you need help goto the classicwow subreddit instead.

The fight isn’t that difficult though you just need to get your groups in order. The only mobs you need tanks on are the drackonoids. Your DPS warriors will get aggro on the other two and then they should die off before they get hurt too much.

You just need to priorize the grouping arrangement. But seriously man don’t look for help here.

One more tip. World buffs carry in classic. Gear isn’t nearly as important. A warrior for example will do more than double his damage with world buffs no matter what gear he has. And while BWL may be all about your tanks, your DPS can carry you on every fight except for Firemaw and to a lesser extent Chrommagus. Firemaw who was once a boss no one struggled with in vanilla is now the boss that stops the most guilds from progressing. And that’s because the DPS cannot carry due to the stacking mechanic.

Ty m8.
Well, this forum is toxic as every other media, by ppl with millennia age and Instagram education. I just filter those replies off my attention.
Ty, i will try to get this advise as plan b.

Everyone who is trying to play for more than 20 years and have reallife, giving up with that or giving up with top results.
From top 100 diablo2 hc ladder my team evolved to 20-countries team, and this summer i will move 3k km to celebrate 60 of my friend (I'm not about his level).
We have new 25% of ppl for every raid day. No wife/children are being hurt, no college failed.
I think we going ahead of many curves

[Kelato]

Ty m8.
Well, this forum is toxic as every other media, by ppl with millennia age and Instagram education. I just filter those replies off my attention.
Ty, i will try to get this advise as plan b.

Everyone who is trying to play for more than 20 years and have reallife, giving up with that or giving up with top results.
From top 100 diablo2 hc ladder my team evolved to 20-countries team, and this summer i will move 3k km to celebrate 60 of my friend (I'm not about his level).
We have new 25% of ppl for every raid day. No wife/children are being hurt, no college failed.
I think we going ahead of many curves

You say this forum is toxic, while being toxic yourself constantly bashing a certain age group. Way to go. Also a "wise" man like you are should stop making excuses. Not helpful with any progress.

[Mendzia]

You need 40 people, Not 30 or 35, 40.

Yeah i was wondering about this too.
Or mby OP is saying their average age. :P

[kamuimac]

Hi Everyone.

Our guild got stuck on this piece of Nefarian's art.
We aren't APES. We are 30-35. Our dps parses are rarely beat 50% in MC.

Our best was to leave 3 eggs.

Now we have plans to ignore and kite legionnaires, our warriors mastered it.
Drakes after mages, with cc and lite by hunters, 2-3 for one. 1 for each druid.
Minus aggro talents and no huge heals are new healing orders.

We are 80% mc geared (it's just hard to ask 50old person to dps like a teen).

Four groups in corners.

What, by your opinion, is good to mention to get Razor to second phase?

git gud

you are wiping on boss that has less mechanics then leveling dungeon bosses in retail

or stop bringing usless classes to raid . be you have like 5 oomkins in there .

[czarek]

Is this a bait or serious problem ? ;d I cant even imagine how u could wipe on it when u are good geared and know the mechanic. Its not dps problem unit half of dpsers not afk. Dps in classic is like spam 1 2 and pop some cds when active even my 80 granpda can do it.

[SkagenRora]

Is this a bait or serious problem ? ;d I cant even imagine how u could wipe on it when u are good geared and know the mechanic. Its not dps problem unit half of dpsers not afk. Dps in classic is like spam 1 2 and pop some cds when active even my 80 granpda can do it.

Most of the time a wipe is caused by killing adds in the wrong order, so you are eventually overrun and can't kill stuff fast enough.

[probert]

We're a casual guild, took us until the 2nd night to nail Razorgore.

What worked for us:

- ignore private server strats
- ignore the 4 corner strat
- position two fire teams at both ramps, their goal is to stop runners getting to the orb
- had a rover group in the middle focus on pulling mages and killing them (1 tank, 1 healer, 2 dps)
- when it gets hairy, just cycle fear bombs... stop trying to kill dragonkin after around 15 eggs are destroy and just have them locked down.
- more heals helps more than more dps. having 3 capable tanks (each ramp + mid) makes a big difference.

Then you're onto Vael (who is relatively easy) and the suppression room (again, relatively easy).

We're stuck on firemaw since we're healing light, and our tanks aren't at max fire resist yet. expect him to drop this week.

NOTE: Unlike Molten Core that can be reliably run with 30-35 players once you have a bit of gear, you really need 38-40 players for BWL. more healing is the biggest hack in BWL.

Good luck.

[Nalam the Venom]

Is this a bait or serious problem ? ;d I cant even imagine how u could wipe on it when u are good geared and know the mechanic. Its not dps problem unit half of dpsers not afk. Dps in classic is like spam 1 2 and pop some cds when active even my 80 granpda can do it.

Currently on wipe 3 on todays BWL.

[CrawlFromThePit]

"Our raid is not full, how should we kill this boss?"

I don't know, maybe fill the raid? wtf mate.

[arkanon]

"Our raid is not full, how should we kill this boss?"

I don't know, maybe fill the raid? wtf mate.

My race car keeps coming last. We run with 3 wheels instead of 4, any suggestions on how to go faster?

[ellieg]

"Our raid is not full, how should we kill this boss?"

I don't know, maybe fill the raid? wtf mate.

Not always as simple as it seems tho tbh. If you run LC or DKP, you want to keep it all guild or else pugs wont get anything. Recruiting for the guild takes time. If you do pug, you gotta change loot rules around and ppl aremt always gonna be happy. But yes, the most effective solution is to bring 40 ppl. We've successfully done it with 32 tho

[Nachtigal]

I'm not entirely sure you understood the thread or my post. OP is using age as an excuse for under performing, and I wanted to know why the OP thought that was a valid excuse for under performing. I'm not really sure how you could even come to the conclusion that I was boasting or mocking anyone. I mean that was a really cute dig at me, but it was completely nonsensical in this context.

It's WoW, it's not a complicated game, Classic even less so, being older isn't going to impact your ability to do a rotation. That's not mocking anyone.

Hold on to your ass, this might shock you. There are people who are not technically savvy. There are people who just don’t “get it” when it comes to computers. Their brains function differently. The world was a completely different place 30-40 years ago. Not everybody had an opportunity back in the 80’s-90’s to grow up with technology. There are STILL people without that opportunity, though much fewer in number.

You’re trying to posture that because someone can’t operate a computer as well as you can, or can’t execute a process (that you perceive as easy) to perfection, that they’re inferior. You’re just trying to tag anybody you can with a derogatory label because (???)

I’m sure you’ll come up with some sly excuse of “no really, I’m just trying to say this” but honestly... you and your kind are the worst type of people.

[Ssateneth]

We are 80% mc geared (it's just hard to ask 50old person to dps like a teen).

What's so hard about pressing 111111112111111112111111112111111112111111112111111112?