WOW- Now pay to win?

[Seranthor]

I see 475ilvl items with socket and good corruption for like 2-3 million on the AH. So now ppl buy wow tokens for real life money and then buy this items...

Is this good gameplay or not? Pay to win?

Blizzard probly happy about it as they earn more $$$

If this is your definition of pay to win, then every game in the history of man has been pay to win, and every game ever made in the future will be pay to win... Thus, rendering the 'pay to win' screed utterly meaningless.

[Mirishka]

When i say WIN. I mean WIN DPS meters. Haveing good dps helps out alot. Both in raids and arena. And NO BOE have never been this strong. When could a BOE do 30-50% of your total damage almost by itself? Its not normal anyway .

1. Topping dps meters in Mythic Waycrest Manor isn't 'pay to win'.

2. There have been outliers (in regards to one item/proc dealing a disproportionate amount of your damage) in nearly every expansion.

3. Damage is nerfed into the ground in PvP/Arena, so your OP game-breaking BOE that wins World of Warcraft doesn't guarantee = lolwin@pvp.

4. Look outside and you'll see that the sky is, in fact, not falling. It'll be okay.

No idea why I'm wasting my time replying to a 6-post burner account that just wanted to grind an axe and stoke 'Blizz is the devil' flames, but there it is.

[Dziubla]

Not like this...corrupt effect does like 30-50% of your damge sometimes. Have never been like that before that BOE are so powerfull. Or maybe it have but that is bad gameplay.

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yes but never this powerboost? 30%+ of your damage from one BOE? Really?

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I agree. Feels bad man!

Either you don't play this game, or you're a bot, or you're just massively over exaggerating those numbers. Even the best corruptions on the highest ilvl items won't come close to doing "30-50% of your damage".

As for your "p2w" - you could buy all the boes you wanted, and you still wouldn't come close to clearing mythic raid. There's something called "skill" involved as well. Do boes help? Of course they do. But that has always been the case. It's somewhat more noticable this patch, true enough, but it's still nowhere close to any actual "p2w", and anyone who tries to call it that never played a game that is ACTUALLY p2w.

[Trend]

I see 475ilvl items with socket and good corruption for like 2-3 million on the AH. So now ppl buy wow tokens for real life money and then buy this items...

Is this good gameplay or not? Pay to win?

Blizzard probly happy about it as they earn more $$$

Seriously fucking creative thread here. Never seen any discussion like this so congrats.

As far as your question, it depends on what you mean by "winning". If you have a stupid definition then sure, it is P2W and it always has been.

[Lolites]

I can't remember BoEs being objectively better than anything you could get inside the raid though

but.. those BOEs drop inside the raid how can they be better than drop from raid when they drop in raid

[Onikaroshi]

I love all the hyperbolic amounts "30%!" "50%!"

They've been nerfed, they don't do that much anymore (except MAYBE well aimed TD for a tank)

[Kumorii]

but.. those BOEs drop inside the raid how can they be better than drop from raid when they drop in raid

Nah, drops from the AH auctioneers.

[Clozer]

I love all the hyperbolic amounts "30%!" "50%!"

They've been nerfed, they don't do that much anymore (except MAYBE well aimed TD for a tank)

Still, it does not matter how expensive or how powerful they are. They are still BIS for every class and they can be bought with real money. Facts.

[Xauro]

If this is your definition of pay to win, then every game in the history of man has been pay to win, and every game ever made in the future will be pay to win... Thus, rendering the 'pay to win' screed utterly meaningless.

One item that does a large amount of your total damage. That you could buy as an BOE for real life money. Is that not pay to win DPS meter? I spent 100+ hours and havent gotten a good corrupt. Someone could just buy this BOE and beat me on dps so easy....and this is not pay to win? Ok then!

[Gaidax]

I actually legitimately think that 8.3 is, in fact, P2W patch or at the very least the closest it was to that ever and I am sort of shocked Blizzard allowed this to this extent.

Quite honestly, this patch really tests my patience as a whole. My attitude is generally positive towards Blizzard and WoW team, but I think they are really pushing it this time. BoEs were always a thing and sometimes these were pretty good BoEs too, but this situation is on a whole other level - quite a few specs are literally night and day power-wise with or without specific corruptions and with the system being as random as it is - having specific items on AH with corruptions you need is a total bait.

I really hope this won't be a thing in Shadowlands.

[Xauro]

I love all the hyperbolic amounts "30%!" "50%!"

They've been nerfed, they don't do that much anymore (except MAYBE well aimed TD for a tank)

Still BIS and does a large amount of your total DPS. And yeah maybe 30% are wrong number( not for blood DK stacking HP and other tanks)...but thats not my pont being right on the % number. If you cant see that, Now you know!

[TrollHunter3000]

You could always buy BOEs for money, so either wow has always been p2w or never.

You've never been able to buy BoE that could increase your dps by such insane amounts though. Some of them can increase it by 20-30% if you're ~450 ilvl.

[Xauro]

Seems you answered my question. Thank you. Somebody "payed to win on the dps meters" (which he totally doesn't if he died because he doesn't understand fight / class mechanics)

Nice try. Yes...congratz. You won this thread. WoW is now "pay to win on the dps meters"

Thank you dude!

[kaminaris]

Duuuuuuuuuude, you could like, buy entire mythic raid clear including mount for both gold and money (you still can).
So how some items are a problem now?

[TrollHunter3000]

Buying power is buying power while the gap may be worse that doesn’t push one closer to P2W then the other.

Mabye if there was a gold cap like in Swtor it would be P2W but you can earn the gold to buy these things your self without spending a dime.

Yes. It does. It's never been enough to actually matter. For one, there's hardly ever been BiS pieces you could buy for gold (and in turn, real money) and secondly, even when there was you maybe got a 2% damage increase at most. People can easily get a 10-15k damage increase which can as high as a 35% increase from one piece. You could easily double your dps if you buy several pieces.

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You don't win Mythic World first by AHing BOEs, you win it by being the best players.

Even those guilds would disagree with you.

[Kralljin]

Let me get this straight, going by the logic of some people, it's only pay to win if i'm able to use these items on Mythic N'zoth or in a Match that secures me the R1 for that season?

But let me guess, i can't buy every achievement and to win the game, i need 100% of all achievements, so it's still not pay to win!

[Onikaroshi]

Still BIS and does a large amount of your total DPS. And yeah maybe 30% are wrong number( not for blood DK stacking HP and other tanks)...but thats not my pont being right on the % number. If you cant see that, Now you know!

I mean, i could sit here and spout of everything that I think makes wow NOT pay-to-win and you'd just come back with your reasons why it is, just like every person in every thread that pops up DAILY like this. Neither side is going to change the other sides view so it's really pointless.

[Gaidax]

Duuuuuuuuuude, you could like, buy entire mythic raid clear including mount for both gold and money (you still can).
So how some items are a problem now?

I will tell you how from perspective of Mythic raider.

Big part of the fun we have that keeps us rolling is the challenge of getting good parses in raids. There is fun to that and fair (as far as it's possible) competition between guildies as well.

Much of that was always based around both small scale guild and large scale - the scene having similar gear levels in the end. This however hurts this "minigame" a lot and that's why people are upset, because you can no longer really make it with skill, but you simply do need to have the correct corruptions that are nigh unobtainable to do good.

[Tantaburs]

You don't win Mythic World first by AHing BOEs, you win it by being the best players. You can put your standard/average WoW player in the best BOEs and they still aren't clearing shit they couldn't have already cleared.

And like others have pointed out (sad that it even has to be pointed out) you've always been able to buy BOEs in AH including some BIS items. But please, tell us more about buying items and how you automatically win the game with them.

I mean you do it with both.

Are Limit it guild that played the best? Yeah probably but the BoEs were also certainly a contributor

[Xauro]

I mean, i could sit here and spout of everything that I think makes wow NOT pay-to-win and you'd just come back with your reasons why it is, just like every person in every thread that pops up DAILY like this. Neither side is going to change the other sides view so it's really pointless.

We agree to disagree, thank you dude!