WOW- Now pay to win?

[Clozer]

I mean, i could sit here and spout of everything that I think makes wow NOT pay-to-win and you'd just come back with your reasons why it is, just like every person in every thread that pops up DAILY like this. Neither side is going to change the other sides view so it's really pointless.

Buy power for real money. There is no discussion IF this is p2w. That is literally the definition of it.

[Feral Druid ist Op]

buying 2 infinite stars boes for 30% dps increase is reatrded and robbed our guildbank we spend about 70+ mil to gear our raider with bad luck in 8.3

[TrollHunter3000]

1. Topping dps meters in Mythic Waycrest Manor isn't 'pay to win'.

2. There have been outliers (in regards to one item/proc dealing a disproportionate amount of your damage) in nearly every expansion.

3. Damage is nerfed into the ground in PvP/Arena, so your OP game-breaking BOE that wins World of Warcraft doesn't guarantee = lolwin@pvp.

4. Look outside and you'll see that the sky is, in fact, not falling. It'll be okay.

No idea why I'm wasting my time replying to a 6-post burner account that just wanted to grind an axe and stoke 'Blizz is the devil' flames, but there it is.

None that you could outright buy and even the ones that were really good weren't typically costing an insane amount, such as trinkets scribes could make.

You're just wrong about pvp. You must not arena much, if at all. Corruption is absolutely broken in arena. It is no where near "nerfed to the ground".

[Onikaroshi]

I will tell you how from perspective of Mythic raider.

Big part of the fun we have that keeps us rolling is the challenge of getting good parses in raids. There is fun to that and fair (as far as it's possible) competition between guildies as well.

Much of that was always based around both small scale guild and large scale - the scene having similar gear levels in the end. This however hurts this "minigame" a lot and that's why people are upset, because you can no longer really make it with skill, but you simply do need to have the correct corruptions that are nigh unobtainable to do good.

You would have a valid point if the logs and rankings didn't speak for otherwise. Took a random samplings of a few bosses (ST, AoE, Cleave) and their top 10 rankings and a lot of them corruptions weren't even a factor, a few didn't appear to have any corruption damage AT ALL.

The ones that have a lot of corruption damage are outliers, not the norm

[apples]

Either you don't play this game, or you're a bot, or you're just massively over exaggerating those numbers. Even the best corruptions on the highest ilvl items won't come close to doing "30-50% of your damage".

As for your "p2w" - you could buy all the boes you wanted, and you still wouldn't come close to clearing mythic raid. There's something called "skill" involved as well. Do boes help? Of course they do. But that has always been the case. It's somewhat more noticable this patch, true enough, but it's still nowhere close to any actual "p2w", and anyone who tries to call it that never played a game that is ACTUALLY p2w.

td is routinely 30% of my dmg in m+

huehuehueuhe

[Clozer]

You would have a valid point if the logs and rankings didn't speak for otherwise. Took a random samplings of a few bosses (ST, AoE, Cleave) and their top 10 rankings and a lot of them corruptions weren't even a factor, a few didn't appear to have any corruption damage AT ALL.

The ones that have a lot of corruption damage are outliers, not the norm

Imagine random p2w game. Bad players buy power for real money and good players dont. Good players still perfom better, therefore its no p2w game??????? Wth.

[Onikaroshi]

Buy power for real money. There is no discussion IF this is p2w. That is literally the definition of it.

Or play the game and get the exact same power without spending a dime.

LIMIT went into gold debt buying, not money debt.

[TrollHunter3000]

You would have a valid point if the logs and rankings didn't speak for otherwise. Took a random samplings of a few bosses (ST, AoE, Cleave) and their top 10 rankings and a lot of them corruptions weren't even a factor, a few didn't appear to have any corruption damage AT ALL.

The ones that have a lot of corruption damage are outliers, not the norm

I'd like to see any heroic or mythic fight parse where someone was top 10 and didn't have corruption. Link me a single one. I'll wait.

[TrollHunter3000]

Or play the game and get the exact same power without spending a dime.

LIMIT went into gold debt buying, not money debt.

Just because some people are able to make that gold with other methods, doesn't change the fact that many buy the gold (even the gold given to Limit) with real money.

- - - Updated - - -

You aren't going to suddenly be able to clear +15s or mythic raids just because you purchased 2 pieces of BoE gear. If you are crap at the game, those two items aren't going to make you less crap.

If you aren't capable of doing something like a 12 or 13 without the BoEs then yeah you're probably right. If you struggle to time a 14 or 15 by a few minutes then those BoEs will almost certainly give you the edge you need.

By your standard, nothing is ever pay to win because the shittiest of players aren't automatically among the best players when they spend money. That's not a requirement for pay to win.

[Onikaroshi]

I'd like to see any heroic or mythic fight parse where someone was top 10 and didn't have corruption. Link me a single one. I'll wait.

Rank 1 world (in every class, not just mage) mage currently on Ra'den, not a single point of corruption damage https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...done&source=16

[Clozer]

You aren't going to suddenly be able to clear +15s or mythic raids just because you purchased 2 pieces of BoE gear. If you are crap at the game, those two items aren't going to make you less crap.

So you say its p2w but hey p2w isn't that bad, 'cause the bad stay bad? Nice argumentation.

[Onikaroshi]

Imagine random p2w game. Bad players buy power for real money and good players dont. Good players still perfom better, therefore its no p2w game??????? Wth.

In p2w games you buy things you can't reasonably get without paying, directly, from the game developer. Buying gold to buy an upgrade isn't p2w.

[Destinas]

It would take a ton of real life money to deck yourself out in great gear through the AH, especially if these pieces are 2-3 million gold each. The token has been floating around 150-180k gold for most of the expansion, meaning that you'd have to buy 10-12 tokens to get one piece. At $20 USD for a token, that would be $200-$240 USD - for a single piece.

It would be easier to kill rares, finish assaults, and do visions than spend thousands of dollars to fully deck yourself out. That is not "pay to win" at all, so calm down with that narrative.

[Clozer]

Rank 1 world (in every class, not just mage) mage currently on Ra'den, not a single point of corruption damage https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...done&source=16

He wears 4 corruption pieces with increase of mastery. He got a shit ton million dps through corruption. LOL.

[Kralljin]

Rank 1 world (in every class, not just mage) mage currently on Ra'den, not a single point of corruption damage https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...done&source=16

>Checks Damage taken
>Eye of corruption

I guess that Eye of corruption spawned out nowhere?

[kaminaris]

I will tell you how from perspective of Mythic raider.

Big part of the fun we have that keeps us rolling is the challenge of getting good parses in raids. There is fun to that and fair (as far as it's possible) competition between guildies as well.

Much of that was always based around both small scale guild and large scale - the scene having similar gear levels in the end. This however hurts this "minigame" a lot and that's why people are upset, because you can no longer really make it with skill, but you simply do need to have the correct corruptions that are nigh unobtainable to do good.

I know, still doesnt change a fact, you can simply pay to win raids:
https://i.imgur.com/ikiD8LD.png

[Belloc]

Guilds have been selling full clears through max-difficulty content for years now, both for money and for gold. BOEs are nothing compared to that.

No, it's not P2W. It can only be called P2W if Blizzard is directly offering BiS-quality gear for money, which they will never do. WoW will never be P2W.

[Clozer]

In p2w games you buy things you can't reasonably get without paying, directly, from the game developer. Buying gold to buy an upgrade isn't p2w.

Buy crystals for real money spend crystals for power upgrades. You can also earn crystals by playing the game. Therefore its no p2w. That is literally the case for 99.99% of the games that are considered p2w.

[Onikaroshi]

>Checks Damage taken
>Eye of corruption

I guess that Eye of corruption spawned out nowhere?

I did say not a single point of corruption damage, these people are all like "you have to spend millions on inf stars!"

- - - Updated - - -

Buy crystals for real money spend crystals for power upgrades. You can also earn crystals by playing the game. Therefore its no p2w. That is literally the case for 99.99% of the games that are considered p2w.

Those crystals you speak of only serve one use, the p2w shop, gold has many uses.

[Xauro]

It would take a ton of real life money to deck yourself out in great gear through the AH, especially if these pieces are 2-3 million gold each. The token has been floating around 150-180k gold for most of the expansion, meaning that you'd have to buy 10-12 tokens to get one piece. At $20 USD for a token, that would be $200-$240 USD - for a single piece.

It would be easier to kill rares, finish assaults, and do visions than spend thousands of dollars to fully deck yourself out. That is not "pay to win" at all, so calm down with that narrative.

Im at 100h+ hours ingametime(stopped counting) trying to get a good corr. If i spend that time at work(working extra) i could EASY buy many BOE.