WOW- Now pay to win?

[Onikaroshi]

Why are you lying? This is what I asked for and then you shifted goalposts.

I was ALWAYS talking about TD/EV/IS, forgot about the stat ones honestly, but that 300 mastery he's getting from his corruptions isn't going to add up to "30% of his dps"

[oplawlz]

Say you decide you want a sweet perfectly corrupted mythic BoE. You don't have enough gold though, so you decide to go buy tokens so you do. Your tokens sell instantly and you finally have enough gold. You whisper the guy in trade, but he sold it. You go to the AH to buy one, but there's not one there anymore either. There's no item to fill your needs currently available. Now you have to wait. You don't see one for 2-4 weeks. You're now sitting on your hands waiting for that power you were supposed to have paid for. One finally shows up, but it gets bought before you can make a run for it.

Can you see the other side of the argument? If WoW was TRUE P2W, then you would be buying stuff from blizz that either A.) Gave you power from the point your CC was processed, or B.) Gave you a special currency that was used exclusively in a store, ran by Blizz, that sold those direct power gains. Instead, any attempt to P2W is realistically at the whims of other players, and the player driven/controlled market.

Those are some incredible mental gymnastics dude.

You can buy the most powerful items in the game through the use of real money. That's pay to win.

[Jonnusthegreat]

I would say yes, considering the best possible item can be purchased through USD. Maybe for entry level raiding, but never to this extent.

That's why they took the RMAH down on D3. The most exciting way to improve your character was through the auction house, not playing the game.

[Onikaroshi]

You seem to not know what mastery does for fire mages. I guarantee you his parse would not be number 1, likely not even top 100, if he had 300 less mastery for that fight.

I know exactly what mastery does for fire mages, 300 isn't going to be "30% of his dmg" he's getting far more from other procs and buffs.

[froschhure]

You could always buy BOEs for money, so either wow has always been p2w or never.

typical blizzard-in-disguise forum post

[TrollHunter3000]

This has been the case since Vanilla, so if it wasn't "Pay to Win" then, it's not now.

It wasn't the case since Vanilla. No single item could increase your dps by 20%+

- - - Updated - - -

No single piece increases your damage by 30%

Infinite Stars wants a word with you.

[Onikaroshi]

You can buy virtually any corruption off the Auction house, it doesn't matter on which slot you have them as long as it's Mythic Ilvl.
So, if you don't want to wait, you just buy them, it's not like it's a save bet that you get those corruptions.

It's still not pay to win in the slightest lol, you can also get those 2 slots you could have bought by, you know, playing the game. but hey, if you want to bitch about someone dropping all their gold on a few pieces that will be obsolete in a few months time, go for it. Maybe just quit and save yourself the hassle, I for one hope they figure out a way to have a similar system in SL.

[shadowmatrix]

I see 475ilvl items with socket and good corruption for like 2-3 million on the AH. So now ppl buy wow tokens for real life money and then buy this items...

Is this good gameplay or not? Pay to win?

Blizzard probly happy about it as they earn more $$$

If players being able to sell gear equals P2W then yes, all decent MMOs are P2W. Seems it is time to remove the auction house and trading from gaming.

[Kirbydude65]

BoEs typically weren't 15%+ damage increases though.

I wouldn't exactly call it "P2W", but it's certainly closer to that than it's ever been before. Preach/Bay had an entire discussion on this after the world first race, with multiple guilds spending 100m+ gold on corruption BoEs.

A lot of the Dark Moon Faire Cards were flat 15% damage boosts in past expansions. Heck even this expansion, I'm pretty sure Darkmoon Deck Fathoms was a huge portion of people's DPS.

[Onikaroshi]

It wasn't the case since Vanilla. No single item could increase your dps by 20%+

- - - Updated - - -



Infinite Stars wants a word with you.

That's stacking it, and after nerfs most of it is not 30%, the majority of what you see in IS is 14%

IS is shitty damage to corruption ratio.

[Th3Scourge]

It's been like this since Vanilla. It's probably more expensive now because if you want to buy a 2m gold ring with infinite stars on it, you're going to need a shitload of tokens

And the influx of tokens drives the price down, so you'll get less and less for every other token you list

[uopayroll]

1. Win implies there is an end. With Shadowlands coming out, for now at least, there is no end.

2. World first has already been "won", so now people buying those BoE are just PtM (pay to mimic).

3. A bought token just moves money from someone that already had it in game to someone with a token to sell meaning someone also paid to lose, net effect is one "wins" one loses cancelling each other out.

4. My game and playing has seen no real impact from the guy selling a token and buying a BoE.

[TrollHunter3000]

I know exactly what mastery does for fire mages, 300 isn't going to be "30% of his dmg" he's getting far more from other procs and buffs.

Those other procs and buffs cause and exponential increase with the extra mastery. I guarantee you it's close to 30% more dps over the same items without the corruption.

- - - Updated - - -

That's stacking it, and after nerfs most of it is not 30%, the majority of what you see in IS is 14%

IS is shitty damage to corruption ratio.

Wrong.

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...done&source=14

He only had 1 rank 3 infinite stars piece.

[Onikaroshi]

It's been like this since Vanilla. It's probably more expensive now because if you want to buy a 2m gold ring with infinite stars on it, you're going to need a shitload of tokens

And the influx of tokens drives the price down, so you'll get less and less for every other token you list

Currently an NA toke is worth 150k so about 14 tokens or 350 bucks.

1000 gold in vanilla for something like a mount would run you OVER 500. It's gotten cheaper if anything.

[TrollHunter3000]

A lot of the Dark Moon Faire Cards were flat 15% damage boosts in past expansions. Heck even this expansion, I'm pretty sure Darkmoon Deck Fathoms was a huge portion of people's DPS.

Not 15%. Not even close.

- - - Updated - - -

Then give us a quote and link where they do?

You think they'd spend nearly $5000 worth of gold if they didn't think that?

[Onikaroshi]

Those other procs and buffs cause and exponential increase with the extra mastery. I guarantee you it's close to 30% more dps over the same items without the corruption.

- - - Updated - - -



Wrong.

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...done&source=14

He only had 1 rank 3 infinite stars piece.

You can't guarantee shit, there's no way that 300ish mastery turned into 30% of his damage.


And welcome to outliers, you ignore the outliers. The fact that there is even a survival hunter on the top at all is questionable.

[TrollHunter3000]

Currently an NA toke is worth 150k so about 14 tokens or 350 bucks.

1000 gold in vanilla for something like a mount would run you OVER 500. It's gotten cheaper if anything.

1000 gold in vanilla was not $500 lol. It was closer to 10 cents per gold.

- - - Updated - - -

You can't guarantee shit, there's no way that 300ish mastery turned into 30% of his damage.


And welcome to outliers, you ignore the outliers. The fact that there is even a survival hunter on the top at all is questionable.

questionable how? He has rank 3 infinite stars. It's an "outlier" (it's actually not you should look up the definition of outlier) because he has infinite stars.

[Onikaroshi]

You think they'd spend nearly $5000 worth of gold if they didn't think that?

WF race is different, there's no time to get the right items, they spend millions on boe's every WF race, the boe's were just worth more money this time around. They would buy every advantage they could, even if it's 1%.

It doesn't take away the skill involved though, you just have to keep up with the jones's at that level. Limit and method both spent insane amounts on items (even transfering peoples characters to get ahold of them) but guess what, in the end the corruptions didn't win for them, their skill did.

[Onikaroshi]

1000 gold in vanilla was not $500 lol. It was closer to 10 cents per gold.

- - - Updated - - -



questionable how? He has rank 3 infinite stars. It's an "outlier" (it's actually not you should look up the definition of outlier) because he has infinite stars.

I bought gold in vanilla, it was definitely not "10c per gold", 1000 gold was 500 OR MORE depending on where you looked.

It's an outlier because no very few peoples IS is doing 30%, there's a similar outlier with a balance druid on Wrathion

[Kralljin]

It's still not pay to win in the slightest lol, you can also get those 2 slots you could have bought by, you know, playing the game.

Still didn't have the luck get a better corruption piece equivalent to Tier 3 Tentacles.
Want to know where i find one? The auction house.

but hey, if you want to bitch about someone dropping all their gold on a few pieces that will be obsolete in a few months time, go for it. Maybe just quit and save yourself the hassle, I for one hope they figure out a way to have a similar system in SL.

"if you don't like something, fuck off, real fans like anything"