Is there any chance we could do away with the timer in M+? Alot of us don't like it.

[rhorle]

But no one is suggesting removing the timer- just offering a version without it with lesser rewards for folks that want to take their time and still get a decent ilvl item at the end. It's not unreasonable at all.

But isn't that what mythic is? How lesser of rewards are going to make people do an non timed over a failed timed run? After all the same people asking for the timer to be removed claim no one wants to do a failed time run in a pug to begin with. If most people do not want to choose to do it with out a time limit why doing it with lesser rewards make more people want to do it?

Look at how Mythic rewards 430 item level. With +15 465. In order to offer less rewards with a non timed run they would need to significantly lower Mythic 0 or significantly raise Mythic+. Which means they would need to also raise raiding gear and the other equivalent level rewards. Which means there is little reward for little extra challenge. As unlimited time to kill things is not that challenging. Which is why the Mythic+ runs are timed to begin with.

It isn't counter intuitive that more time can lower value. If a person runs a mile in 10 days versus the same person running it in 10 mins what is a bigger accomplishment?

[oplawlz]

But isn't that what mythic is? How lesser of rewards are going to make people do an non timed over a failed timed run? After all the same people asking for the timer to be removed claim no one wants to do a failed time run in a pug to begin with. If most people do not want to choose to do it with out a time limit why doing it with lesser rewards make more people want to do it?

I suspect you would be surprised at how many people would be fine with getting one chest for finishing the dungeon. Not talking about any substantial difference from what exists, just a version of the dungeon that doesn't have the timer so that people who want to avoid the "gogogo" mentality can easily pug it.

It isn't counter intuitive that more time can lower value. If a person runs a mile in 10 days versus the same person running it in 10 mins what is a bigger accomplishment?

It makes sense to grant bonuses to those who want to compete, but to use your example, everyone who finishes a marathon still ran that marathon.

[BananaHandsB]

There's no realistic way to make M+ work competitively without a timer. Waiting for CDs whenever you want just makes it so easy to cheese and even more impossible to balance effectively.

[Florena]

I'd be in favor of it. I've never been a big fan of time limits like that, punishing people if something comes up mid run.

I'd be all for something like, a death/wipe limit or enrage timers on bosses etc, so that you can't just force your way through with attrition, but not a fan of the timer.

[agentsi]

if you are a gamedesigner and you cannot come up with a good idea just put into some shit a time limit and slap a leaderboard on top, stupid people will be happy as shit

More people like M+ than dislike it.

The game designers created a perfect way for max level characters to re-play the dungeons they created for an expac.

Unlike you, the game designers know what they're doing.


M+ already has this feature, and if you're having trouble completing keys on time, then M0 is probably where you should be playing.

[rhorle]

I suspect you would be surprised at how many people would be fine with getting one chest for finishing the dungeon. Not talking about any substantial difference from what exists, just a version of the dungeon that doesn't have the timer so that people who want to avoid the "gogogo" mentality can easily pug it.

Which is exactly what happens now if you ignore the timer for the run. Yet it is clear that people are not happy with that since the same people you say would be happy are saying they are not. And they don't even have to have a lower reward.

It makes sense to grant bonuses to those who want to compete, but to use your example, everyone who finishes a marathon still ran that marathon.

Everyone who finishes a dungeon with or without making the timer still finishes that dungeon. And they still get loot. So again your metaphor falls flat and you are complaining about something that isn't even an issue by your own arguments.

[nyjl]

More people like M+ than dislike it.

I don't see how it contradicts with anything i've said.

More people play slotmachines than videogames, guess that's a pretty good gamedesign too.

[rhorle]

I don't see how it contradicts with anything i've said.

It does simply because if the majority like something then it isn't exactly bad design. You may perceive it as bad design but that is like calling a round tire bad simply because you like square tires.

[nyjl]

It does simply because if the majority like something then it isn't exactly bad design. You may perceive it as bad design but that is like calling a round tire bad simply because you like square tires.

>More people play slotmachines than videogames, guess that's a pretty good gamedesign too.

[Divinex]

Just start the M+ and put a sticky note on the timer on your monitor

[rhorle]

>More people play slotmachines than videogames, guess that's a pretty good gamedesign too.

Most slot machines are a good design which is why they are popular. Some slot machines are better at others in attracting players. I don't even think you have a point anymore because slot machines are not inherently bad design simply because they exist. Just as timed runs are not inherently bad simply because they exist. Timers are used in a variety of sports and games. Chess, Soccer, Football, etc all make use of timers.

And yet here on the internet we have a game design expert that says any use of timers is bad design because anything also is automatically superior.

[Frolk]

How many are actually so bad they cant beat the timer?
The timer is there to avoid people from just going 3 tank/2 healer comps, beating the DPS check is part of the difficulty

Whats next, want mechanics removed form Mythic encounters cause a lot u dont like it?

[Awyee]

LoL challenging.


The only challenging part in M+ is doing keys above 15 as Shadow Priest / Enha / Survival or all the classes that are the Mere which every sheep like you are following

0/10

Link your raider.io page, show us your experience

[schwarzkopf]

There already is M+ without a timer, its called Mythic 0.

So - I can do a +15 difficulty mythic without a timer just by selecting Mythic 0.

Well - I learn something new every day.

PS: How do I set the difficulty level ?

- - - Updated - - -

How many are actually so bad they cant beat the timer?

100% of people are so bad they can't beat the timer... that's a fact.

What I dislike is that in an attempt to improve and push my skills, I get easier and easier challenges to do.

What I'd prefer is to have the challenge and keep at it until I beat it... cannot do that with M+.

[Onikaroshi]

So - I can do a +15 difficulty mythic without a timer just by selecting Mythic 0.

Well - I learn something new every day.

PS: How do I set the difficulty level ?

You can do a mythic +15 without the timer by... you know... ignoring the timer. Only time it really matters is when you're trying upgrade your stones.

[Sharby]

So - I can do a +15 difficulty mythic without a timer just by selecting Mythic 0.

Well - I learn something new every day.

PS: How do I set the difficulty level ?

- - - Updated - - -



100% of people are so bad they can't beat the timer... that's a fact.

What I dislike is that in an attempt to improve and push my skills, I get easier and easier challenges to do.

What I'd prefer is to have the challenge and keep at it until I beat it... cannot do that with M+.

As others have said, you can do a +15 without the timer as even if the timer runs out the dungeon is still active, will still reward loot, and will still your weekly chest to the maximum ilvl reward.


If a +14 is easy pickings for you, you should have no problems doing it on time to get back to a 15, regardless, if you downgraded from a 15 my first statement still applies so what is the issue?


Dungeons are not a solo endeavor.

How are you against more options, I'm fascinated.

Its fascinating to me how you can read this entire thread and still not see why someone would be against this specific option.



Arguing that because something is an option its existence is warranted isn't very logical and we would get no where if we did.

[schwarzkopf]

If a +14 is easy pickings for you

Nowhere near that yet... but I ain't getting any closer because we can't practice to make ourselves better at it.

That's the flaw in the system... we get to run 3 or 4 a week, and we don't progress because we keep having to do lower keys.

[schwarzkopf]

You can do a mythic +15 without the timer by... you know... ignoring the timer.

COol - so how do I make it so I can do that +15 a few times to get good ?

What button do I press to stop it getting easier on failure?

There is a -1, a +1 a +2 and a +3 option on the key ... what I want is a +0 option.

Miss by under 10 minutes - it is a +0 or something.

[Sharby]

Nowhere near that yet... but I ain't getting any closer because we can't practice to make ourselves better at it.

That's the flaw in the system... we get to run 3 or 4 a week, and we don't progress because we keep having to do lower keys.

If you cannot make it to a 14 and are getting stuck on lower keys this means you are at the appropriate challenge level and should be practicing those instead.


If you can only do < 5 keys a week I don't see why you should be given anything that should take time to reach. Furthermore, if you're that strapped on time because of irl stuff or lack of interest then the rewards from higher keys should be irrelevant to you anyhow.

[Onikaroshi]

COol - so how do I make it so I can do that +15 a few times to get good ?

What button do I press to stop it getting easier on failure?

There is a -1, a +1 a +2 and a +3 option on the key ... what I want is a +0 option.

Miss by under 10 minutes - it is a +0 or something.

I can agree they should do something like that.