WOW- Now pay to win?

[Lei]

14 pages of LFR raiders that believe buying an Infinite Stars BoE magically makes them win World of Warcraft, because apparently you win MMORPGs.

Because its the corruption that stops you from finishing Skitra and that +5

Never change mmo-champion.

Stay subbed also, your free 13e gives us new raids every 6 months.

I'm sorry is this good/beneficial for high end raiders then? Do you wish to cough out 2 mill gold every raid tier for crazy OP items?

[Kaver]

No, that is not the definition of p2w. It's your definition, and it's a pretty poor one, especially if the argument is that you're trying to prove that tokens are some kind of problem.

As I already said, a far better definition of p2w is that you are required to pay in order to win.



Sure. But the significance of this fact is directly proportional to how many actually do.

It's the mainstream definition of pay to win.

The significance doesn't matter if the question simply is "can you do it?". To that question the answer is: Yes you can.

[Raelbo]

Because now Blizzard manipulates both end of the market. Blizzard is the one who make these crazy OP lucrative items to drop as BoE and they are the ones who sell gold to players to be able buy it.

This argument would make sense were it not for the fact that a token transaction is not just about Blizzard giving you gold for money, but that at the other end, a player is buying a token for gold. So in effect, you're not really paying Blizzard for gold, you're paying another player. It's a closed system, which means that the token market is self limiting.

In other words, no, Blizzard can't just make tons of BoE's and expect tokens to fly off the shelf. Because the system doesn't work that way.

[potis]

I'm sorry is this good/beneficial for high end raiders then? Do you wish to cough out 2 mill gold every raid tier for crazy OP items?

You dont need to cough out anything to raid, you just need to not be shit.

World First Race has nothing to do with the raiding scene.

The top 100-200 guild will still kill the end boss 3-4 weeks after without coughing out anything close to "millions".

You are all just insanely low skilled players that found the latest scapegoat to blame for your lack of progression as usual with mmo-champion posters.

At least, with some of you the lack of knowledge shows, and you arent to blame much, but some other posters, dear god the delusions and irrelevancy.

[ecospherez]

It’s in the grey area. It’s not P2W per say, you can’t physically go to a blizzard store and buy gear but if you wished to you could buy tokens and buy something off the AH, which obviously has some RNG attached to it.

Can’t say I’ve even looked on the AH at BOE’s this expansion. Do people actually pay 3 million gold via tokens for a piece of gear than you can go get in mythic +’s?

Because if so, they need serious help, spending hundreds of real life monies on that.

[Lei]

You dont need to cough out anything to raid, you just need to not be shit.

World First Race has nothing to do with the raiding scene.

The top 100-200 guild will still kill the end boss 3-4 weeks after without coughing out anything close to "millions".

You are all just insanely low skilled players that found the latest scapegoat to blame for your lack of progression as usual with mmo-champion posters.

I love your enthusiastic approach to people here, but I'm not even raiding. Everyone wants to win in something in wow. Region first, server first, guild top dps, "I just wanna be better than Jerry!". There is a competition on all levels, not just in WF. PvP with these items?

[Raelbo]

It's the mainstream definition of pay to win.

Citation?

More likely, it's the definition of people who want to use "Tokens are p2w" as a strawman, because they're incapable of winning an actual "tokens are bad" argument.

The significance doesn't matter if the question simply is "can you do it?". To that question the answer is: Yes you can.

If it's an insignificant issue, then why argue about it? I'll tell you why. Because these people can't come up with an argument to demonstrate that tokens are bad, so instead they'll strawman.

[Kaver]

Citation?

More likely, it's the definition of people who want to use "Tokens are p2w" as a strawman, because they're incapable of winning an actual "tokens are bad" argument.



If it's an insignificant issue, then why argue about it? I'll tell you why. Because these people can't come up with an argument to demonstrate that tokens are bad, so instead they'll strawman.

The common understanding of p2w in other MMOs etc. is gaining an impactful advantage based on real life money.
https://www.urbandictionary.com/defi...erm=pay-to-win


To me it's an insignificant issue. I don't care. And I'm not arguing for anything, I was just answering the question "can you in WoW pay real life money to get an impactful in game advantage?" and the answer is simply: Yes, you can.

[Daymanmb]

If it's an insignificant issue, then why argue about it? I'll tell you why. Because these people can't come up with an argument to demonstrate that tokens are bad, so instead they'll strawman.

Talk about a strawman lmao.. who said tokens are bad? Do you normally make up counter arguments to points no one has made? Seems odd

[Kaver]

Talk about a strawman lmao.. who said tokens are bad? Do you normally make up counter arguments to points no one has made? Seems odd

I don't get it either. I was just answering a simple "yes or no" question and suddenly this guy (Raelbo) says I'm arguing that tokens are bad.. what?

[GringoD]

I love your enthusiastic approach to people here, but I'm not even raiding. Everyone wants to win in something in wow. Region first, server first, guild top dps, "I just wanna be better than Jerry!". There is a competition on all levels, not just in WF. PvP with these items?

PvP and high end is the right argument, but only for a month or two. It's just plain vanity for the rest of the game. Since corruptions are soft-capped, you'll hit a good one eventually and call it a day. And until then you'll rarely find a situation where it makes a relevant difference, other than for your e-peen.

[Daymanmb]

I don't get it either. I was just answering a simple "yes or no" question and suddenly this guy (Raelbo) says I'm arguing that tokens are bad.. what?

For clarity, I dont think tokens are bad. I think theyve done a lot of good for the game, namely exterminating gold sellers l. But I agree, I dont know what the fuck Raelbo is talking about either..

[Raelbo]

The common understanding of p2w in other MMOs etc. is gaining an impactful advantage based on real life money.
https://www.urbandictionary.com/defi...erm=pay-to-win

Ok, so I just followed your link:

"Games that let you buy better gear or allow you to make better items than everyone else at a faster rate and then makes the game largely unbalanced even for people who have skill in the game without paying."

Sorry, but my definition is properly aligned with that, yours is not.

To me it's an insignificant issue. I don't care. And I'm not arguing for anything, I was just answering the question "can you in WoW pay real life money to get an impactful in game advantage?" and the answer is simply: Yes, you can.

And does that make tokens p2w? No, no it doesn't.

Why? Because it doesn't make the game unbalanced for those who don't pay.

As I keep saying, p2w isn't about simply being able to buy something for $$. It's about needing to do so in order to have a reasonable prospect of keeping up.

[Lei]

PvP and high end is the right argument, but only for a month or two. It's just plain vanity for the rest of the game. Since corruptions are soft-capped, you'll hit a good one eventually and call it a day. And until then you'll rarely find a situation where it makes a relevant difference, other than for your e-peen.

My main argument was that we can all act that this does not affect us until it suddenly does. Shrugging off the high ends problems won't help anybody down the road probably.

[GucciWarr]

When i say WIN. I mean WIN DPS meters. Haveing good dps helps out alot. Both in raids and arena. And NO BOE have never been this strong. When could a BOE do 30-50% of your total damage almost by itself? Its not normal anyway .

It can’t, I don’t know if you’re crazy misinformed or intentionally misleading and derailing the thread. Corruption doesn’t deal 30-50% of people’s damages hell I barer see it over 15 when you look at overall dps from a key or something else that takes longer than 5 seconds

[Raelbo]

Talk about a strawman lmao.. who said tokens are bad? Do you normally make up counter arguments to points no one has made? Seems odd

In every single discussion about whether tokens make the game p2w (including this one) is the direct implication that they if they do, then it's proof that they are bad. Why else does anyone even care if they're p2w?

[Kaver]

Ok, so I just followed your link:

"Games that let you buy better gear or allow you to make better items than everyone else at a faster rate and then makes the game largely unbalanced even for people who have skill in the game without paying."

Sorry, but my definition is properly aligned with that, yours is not.



And does that make tokens p2w? No, no it doesn't.

Why? Because it doesn't make the game unbalanced for those who don't pay.

As I keep saying, p2w isn't about simply being able to buy something for $$. It's about needing to do so in order to have a reasonable prospect of keeping up.

Question: "Can you pay real life money to get an impactful in game advantage in WoW?"

My answer: "Yes."

Done.

[chiddie]

Ok, so I just followed your link:

"Games that let you buy better gear or allow you to make better items than everyone else at a faster rate and then makes the game largely unbalanced even for people who have skill in the game without paying."

Sorry, but my definition is properly aligned with that, yours is not.



And does that make tokens p2w? No, no it doesn't.

Why? Because it doesn't make the game unbalanced for those who don't pay.

As I keep saying, p2w isn't about simply being able to buy something for $$. It's about needing to do so in order to have a reasonable prospect of keeping up.

Technically it IS p2w. The advantage simply comes at a so high cost and for a so few time that makes it simply not worthwhile for the majority of people.

[GucciWarr]

Still, it does not matter how expensive or how powerful they are. They are still BIS for every class and they can be bought with real money. Facts.

Oh no someone can spend 200 dollars for one piece of gear, let’s all point and laugh?

[Raelbo]

I don't get it either. I was just answering a simple "yes or no" question and suddenly this guy (Raelbo) says I'm arguing that tokens are bad.. what?

Actually I did not say that.

You claimed that it was a "mainstream definition". As in, used by others. Others, who I pointed out use it as a proxy for a "tokens are bad" argument. I never said you were trying to make that argument, rather that it was a poor definition.

- - - Updated - - -

Question: "Can you pay real life money to get an impactful in game advantage in WoW?"

My answer: "Yes."

Done.

The question is "Is it p2w?"

So you've strawmanned.

Well done!