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  1. #21
    Immortal Nnyco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Motorman View Post
    I wouldnt call that "gated" I still have tens of thousands of that currency that we just couldnt spend enough of. Did you play enough Legion?
    Wow, who knew that a scenario that you only complete once requires less currency than one you do repeatedly every week.
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  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by draugril View Post
    He directly said they were inspired by Mage Towers in an interview.
    Ah, have to be careful with words such as inspired since a lot take that as copy.
    Error 404 - Signature not found

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by zawyer View Post
    I think the reason why people compare visions to mage towers all the time is because people expected similar content based on Ion’s comment comparing them as same type of content.

    Personally I loved mage tower (got all 34 skins), but feel pretty mediocre about visions. I love difficult content, but I hate using timers as a measure of difficulty.

    Mage towers I always felt was my own errors that caused a wipe.

    Visions I feel there are too many elements outside my control that can affect my run. (Correct titan research, not high enough cloak, correct corruption gear, wrong class/spec (as everyone is doing the same challenge, some classes/specs WILL have an advantage/disadvantage no matter how well its tuned)).
    I totally agree with you on the timer. It makes the challenge feel "artificial" to me. It seems to be blizzards "go to" to make things more difficult. Would love to see a version of the M+ where the dungeon itself was the challenge without the artificial timer making things more difficult because they basically turned it into a non engaging race.

    I think they added all of those "extra" elements (research, item upgrade, etc) because they felt it would make your choices more "strategic" and "thoughtful." Just like the timer though- that is all "artificial" strategy- strategy that was tacked on that doesn't directly pertain to what your are doing but basically just adds a gate and some buffs to help you.

    Blizzard should just learn that if the encounters are designed correctly and are interesting and engaging- you don't need all that artificial stuff tacked on.

    All that extra stuff is basically design "crutches" that allow Blizz to make the encounters pretty similar (how many years have we been "stand in this, don't stand in that, stack when he casts- then spread out, tanks swap the debuff at 4 stacks, etc, etc) and allows them to still claim they have strat or challenge to them. Look at the bomb boss in teh SW visions. He throws a bomb at you (don't stand in that), then he will do the smash with three times (don't stand in the circle- that might be the other boss- they are all so similar they kind of blend together), then he breathes fire on you (don't stand in it). A really simplistic encounter that will only ever be any sort of challenge if you are super low on corruption with no orbs....... (they have to rely on the crutches to make it a challenge).

    Couldn't that boss just have been designed better with no crutch? I would say so.

    The reason why people compare the Mage Tower and the Visions is because they are both solo content- they really aren't similar. If you have done both- they both feel totally different.

  4. #24
    i did mage tower only 3 times , once for each spec and i was done with it for the entire expansion

    it was fun but it lasted extremely short, unlike visions

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schmilblick View Post
    - Seven different versions which means less repetitive
    - Not gated behind a crappy gated item, that you need to upgrade every week
    - Unique cool skin weapon rewards
    Ice cream > a pile of shit.

    What's new?

  6. #26
    Merely a Setback FelPlague's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schmilblick View Post
    - Seven different versions which means less repetitive
    - Not gated behind a crappy gated item, that you need to upgrade every week
    - Unique cool skin weapon rewards
    -less repetitive, excpet on your class you only ever encountered 3 (2 for dh, 4 for druid) also once you completed it, you could never do it again, it was not something you could keep doing to try and get faster and faster, further and further, nor did it give gear. the mage tower was a "do once for a skin" the visions are for gear and multiple things.

    - yes it was gated, the item was rather easy but yeah. still gated, especially since you could only try while the mage tower was up.

    - ok? and visions give unique backpack reward, and also gear.

    visions are a progression, mage tower was just a cosmetic "do it once"


    its like comparing Mythic plus, and the green fire questline. they arnt even compareable.
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    My ideas are objectively good

  7. #27
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    It's hard to compare the two because they really aren't the same.
    It would be like saying "Raids >>> Rated BGs".
    Cool, if you feel that way, but like, it's different content so it's really apples and oranges.
    But, for the sake of this comparison Mage Towers are better, but I don't think massively.

    I mean, Mage Towers were fun, but they were equally irritating in that some of the class/specs had to use weird ass talent builds and/or play funky to get through them.
    There were tons more pluses and minuses to them, but the ultimate thing I favored was one positive thing:
    There was a finish line.
    No moving goal posts, no "now that you beat it once, beat it X more times over the course of the next Y months!".
    I could try as many times as time/shards allowed (the tank one was the worst struggle, took like 9-10 times to finally beat that stupid demon), then that was it.
    You win, you get the skin, you move on with life.

    WoW doesn't have enough of that today.
    Everything seems like a sliding goal post anymore.
    Having *some* finite content isn't a bad thing.
    Not everything needs to be AP and/or cloak levels and a pinch of power here and there, stretched thinly over a large timeframe.

  8. #28
    Ah yes, people don't remember only having 3 days of attempts every 2nd week.
    Good times.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Jujudrood View Post
    It's hard to compare the two because they really aren't the same.
    It would be like saying "Raids >>> Rated BGs".
    Cool, if you feel that way, but like, it's different content so it's really apples and oranges.
    But, for the sake of this comparison Mage Towers are better, but I don't think massively.

    I mean, Mage Towers were fun, but they were equally irritating in that some of the class/specs had to use weird ass talent builds and/or play funky to get through them.
    There were tons more pluses and minuses to them, but the ultimate thing I favored was one positive thing:
    There was a finish line.
    No moving goal posts, no "now that you beat it once, beat it X more times over the course of the next Y months!".
    I could try as many times as time/shards allowed (the tank one was the worst struggle, took like 9-10 times to finally beat that stupid demon), then that was it.
    You win, you get the skin, you move on with life.

    WoW doesn't have enough of that today.
    Everything seems like a sliding goal post anymore.
    Having *some* finite content isn't a bad thing.
    Not everything needs to be AP and/or cloak levels and a pinch of power here and there, stretched thinly over a large timeframe.
    assets that are used once are wasted.
    I'll take visions any day and I have all the mage tower skins for every class/spec combo

  9. #29
    Immortal Nnyco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Motorman View Post
    So you assume everyone 1 shot Mage Tower. Noone ever had to run the same scenario twice. Everyone was pro (like you ofc).
    Okay? You clearly still did broken shore quests though after you completed the mage tower, ergo your abundance of currency. Not to mention you compare two full patches to six weeks of a patch.

    Speak again after your cape is lvl15 for a few weeks.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    Crabs have been removed from the game... because if I see another one I’m just going to totally lose it. *sobbing* I’m sorry, I just can’t right now... I just... OK just give me a minute, I’ll be OK..

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Nnyco View Post
    Okay? You clearly still did broken shore quests though after you completed the mage tower, ergo your abundance of currency. Not to mention you compare two full patches to six weeks of a patch.

    Speak again after your cape is lvl15 for a few weeks.
    I mean to be fair you could oneshot unholy dk going in blind.
    Same with bm if you had the healing pants.

  11. #31
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    Loved the mage tower, I was disappointed I didn't manage to get the healing skin but never had enough time to put to it.

    What I liked is the reward was purely cosmetic, had no effect on play. -Well apart from the extra 5% buff you kid yourself you get for having a good transmog!

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Schmilblick View Post
    - Seven different versions which means less repetitive
    Each spec had only one version, not seven. I understand what you mean, but not many people bothered to do more than their main spec and then offspec, despite what you are willing to believe

    - Not gated behind a crappy gated item, that you need to upgrade every week
    Every try after the first cost 100 nethershards, which weren't that easy to get. Mage tower as even more gated because it had to be built on the broken shore, not 100% accessible

    - Unique cool skin weapon rewards
    And Visions drop mounts, pets, weapon enchants and gear

    Why are you comparing apples to oranges? Mage Tower was designed to test your skill, Visions were designed as end game content that can be more or less zergable after some time.

    You and people like you are as obnoxious as vegetarians coming to steak house and yelling at everyone how meat is bad. Do us and youself a favour (because behaviour of people like you isnt healthy for mental wellness) and just leave, move on. WoW isnt your ex that you have to haunt, you can just leave and move on, like a normal human being would do (which you 100% are, am i right?). And dont let the door kick you on the way out.

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by glowpipe View Post
    you only had to do mage tower a few times and then no reason to go back. Visions have some shit to go back for
    But is the activity of doing a vision actually fun? I'd take a single novel experience that is probably the hardest dance I've ever done in any game (I did it at 895 first week, not after gear would carry me near the end of the xpac, whereby people somehow STILL managed to fail) over repeating a boring activity for the 100th time just because I still have something to get out of it.

  14. #34
    OP you should already start drafting your "Torghast is just Withered Training with RNG" thread.

  15. #35
    Immortal Nnyco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kehego View Post
    I mean to be fair you could oneshot unholy dk going in blind.
    Same with bm if you had the healing pants.
    Aye, i did actually unholy 2nd try with 900ilvl. lol
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    Crabs have been removed from the game... because if I see another one I’m just going to totally lose it. *sobbing* I’m sorry, I just can’t right now... I just... OK just give me a minute, I’ll be OK..

  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Motorman View Post
    I wouldnt call that "gated" I still have tens of thousands of that currency that we just couldnt spend enough of. Did you play enough Legion?
    I sure did. I have all 3 appearances on my warrior. I hate WQ's/Dailies; It was just as much of chore as the current CV/vessel grind is for me.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Voidwielder View Post
    Ugh, yes. I did Mage Tower on... about 30 specs. I don't really recall farming Nethershards, they came easily and a lot.
    You clearly did a lot of WQ's then. For players that don't enjoy WoW's pathetic world content it was a chore. The same way CV/Vessel farming is a chore.

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Voidwielder View Post
    Plus they were tailored and fine tuned to what your spec was capable of.
    Frost dk one say hello.

  18. #38
    Really was necessary a thread to state the obvious?

  19. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kehego View Post
    assets that are used once are wasted.
    I'll take visions any day and I have all the mage tower skins for every class/spec combo
    True, it can be a waste.
    But offering similar styles of Mage Tower-like content, tuned around class/spec and offering various different rewards, wouldn't be a waste.
    I mean, don't forget, the Mage Tower is effectively just a Scenario, made for solo play, with highly reused assets to begin with.
    It's not like they completely overhauled the world to make them; in fact I would argue that the toughest part about making them was the numbers tuning/play testing, not the actual assets/implementation.

    What I liked about it was the fact that it was finite, that there was a goal.
    I just like knowing that I have something to which I can strive and, once I conquer it, it doesn't just come back and say "ok, now do it again!".
    TBH, I'd like to have both at the same time, with each serving their own purposes.

    I agree with your other point.
    Other people in this thread have argued "I hate content with timers", but like, Mage Tower had multiple timers in and of itself; they simply choose not to acknowledge them.
    They definitely don't choose to remember it being only available for a limited time as one of the 3 towers on that terrible island.
    They also have chosen to forget the fact that each one had a "soft enrage" timer, which was effectively the same thing as putting a clock in your UI.

  20. #40
    I dunno man, Stormwind felt totally different without that hotfoot nonsense this past week.
    Not saying it was easier or harder, but it 100% changed the pacing and feel of trade district and dwarven for me :3
    Leaden foot is still my least favorite.

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