Is there any chance we could do away with the timer in M+? Alot of us don't like it.

[Corroc]

I see no arguments against simply being able to disable the timer completely. Maybe lowering the rewards somehow as a penalty or introducing some other reward system to it.

That would be absolutely insane. Why would people want to do content without a timer for lower reward compared to one with a timer. This would be basically nerfing rewards for the sake of having no timer. Which one do you think would be more popular in the group finder

M+10,going for completion, normal rewards
M+10, no timer, lower rewards

bunch of people are already doing +15 just for completion because of the weekly chest.

[Angrie]

Instead of spending resources on thinking of new shit to add/remove to M+, how about using that time to make all classes equal in M+ so i don't get judged by randoms based on my class choices.

Honestly, why isn't outlaw and resto druids nerfed into the ground yet? I remember trying to do a <10 Key for 45 minutes on my resto shaman (who was heroic geared) without ever getting accepted - that is a problem.

Making more solo content would be great if they could somehow balance the whole mongoloid melee vs hot feet caster problem.

[Penegal]

I would love if you could just choose to do a non-timed m+.

People argue that often groups don't have the expectation of meeting the timer anyway...maybe, but often in pick up groups that even advertise like that you have idiots joining those groups and then ragequitting because the timer dies, because they had hoped that maybe it will work anyway.

Also, just the sheer presence of the timer has impact on how you approach the dungeon, even if you try to ignore it.

I see no arguments against simply being able to disable the timer completely. Maybe lowering the rewards somehow as a penalty or introducing some other reward system to it.

If they introduce a timeless M+ it should have NO rewards. Best I can agree to is -2 on the key and AT MOST 1 item out of the chest for the entire group with the item level decreased by 5 than from a regular M+ dungeon.

The timer is there to have a throughput requirement for the group. Introducing tactics to beat the timer lowers the requirement, which is fine. Having no timer requires the tank not to die. That's it.

[Jamie081]

For me it’s not about “failing” the key but I hate timers. I like challenging content, not rushed content and frankly, M+ ain’t “challenging”. Now I have only pushed a few keys (I got a few at 19 on time) and it was just the same thing over and over again, a race with the clock doing the same tactics. It could be as simple as that I am not the target audience but I like content where I need to sit back a bit and go “hmm what can I do differently to accomplish this?” M+ doesn’t provide that.

TLDR, M+ is draughts while I prefer chess.

But dungeons with no timer end up with the same issue eventually, just another run that has the same tactics and no variety. A meta of tactics will always develop, timers don't segregate the players, players do.

You've only ever done a few 19 keys and you found them easy? Sounds like you haven't done keys since Legion lol. Either that or I'm just really unlucky, every group I heal struggles with 15+ keys on time currently. It's a nightmare. The dungeons are terrible this expansion.

[GucciWarr]

Timers in WoW are retarded and it's absolutely possible to create hard content without stupid timers. They god the idea from WotLK when people, because they were fucking BORED, were doing heroic timed runs. Instead of giving people clever hard content where overall speed doesn't matter, but brain cells do, they've went the easy way. And of course it was very successful, because today speed > brain cells in most people.

You sound slow

[Penegal]

Timers in WoW are retarded and it's absolutely possible to create hard content without stupid timers. They god the idea from WotLK when people, because they were fucking BORED, were doing heroic timed runs. Instead of giving people clever hard content where overall speed doesn't matter, but brain cells do, they've went the easy way. And of course it was very successful, because today speed > brain cells in most people.

They did that. Back in Cataclysm. Then people cried. So they had to make it easy again.

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For me it’s not about “failing” the key but I hate timers. I like challenging content, not rushed content and frankly, M+ ain’t “challenging”. Now I have only pushed a few keys (I got a few at 19 on time) and it was just the same thing over and over again, a race with the clock doing the same tactics. It could be as simple as that I am not the target audience but I like content where I need to sit back a bit and go “hmm what can I do differently to accomplish this?” M+ doesn’t provide that.

TLDR, M+ is draughts while I prefer chess.

You can do what you want, juts not with pugs. Pugs do the tactics that have been mostly found out by the top players. If you really want to improve your m+ experience you need a group that isn't changing after every key.

Things you can do to accomplish higher keys are to try and DPS as that becomes an integral part later on if you want to complete them. You can also experiment with different routes, skips etc. If you like chess, the elements are there. What you are doing is playing a step by step guide to beat the computer. Try pushing keys to the point where you're forced to do this if you want to complete them on time. Try joining the MDI. That's where those things are needed.

[schwank05]

I say just ditch personal loot altogether, then you can have Mythic difficulty level and bosses that actually drop loot instead of a chest at the end that drops nothing 9 times out of 10. Then at least you could get some enchanting mats, but I guess that would make it so that professions had a point again and they would not want that.

[Ashiraya]

I am not necessarily opposed to timed content in and of itself, however M+ has issues other content do not:

Raid boss fights only take like 5 minutes at a time. You get plenty of breaks in between. M+ can go up into the realms of 40 minutes of dedicated focus, and it becomes logistically difficult to gaurantee that amount of time without interruptions. It also honestly tires me out to maintain razor focus for that long.

The old challenge modes didn't need to be run over and over. You lost nothing upon failure, and you only needed to push your best time once. M+, meanwhile, is presented as bread and butter type content.

[agentsi]

yes, everyone in the world is american under 30

it is also very funny that the type of “videogames” you instantly jump to is mobile gaming, which is currently basicaly slotmachines

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you obviously doesn’t even understand word “gamedesign” because there is no difference in GAMEdesign between different types of slotmachines

>chess,soccer

yeah, it was great games yesterday when team A played team B for 10th time in a row trying to beat it faster

if you will fail to understand it as you did with everything else - timelimit and timeruns are not the same things

You're only point is to be argumentative, which is fine. But you're still 100% wrong on this, and past topics you tried to discuss.

Is it fun to be wrong so often?

Cheers

[Carcimomim]

The timer makes it more challenging. Without it, you might as well just not even have mythic dungeons. They are supposed to be harder content, and there’s a huge sense of accomplishment for beating it within time. Just because some people don’t like the challenge doesn’t mean the majority don’t. Please don’t speak for other people just because you’re not able to complete them in time. That’s a you problem and maybe you shouldn’t be doing keys outside your skill set.

[Elias01]

The timer makes it more challenging. Without it, you might as well just not even have mythic dungeons. They are supposed to be harder content, and there’s a huge sense of accomplishment for beating it within time. Just because some people don’t like the challenge doesn’t mean the majority don’t. Please don’t speak for other people just because you’re not able to complete them in time. That’s a you problem and maybe you shouldn’t be doing keys outside your skill set.

Actualy majority of players do not care aboit challenge. Challenge is just way to make content fun but its horrible as goal. And yes its actualy super boring when you have to do anything on timer. Without timer you can actualy afford to play variety of team conmos without need of min maxing which is not fun at all. And yes if Blizz cant make mythic+ challenging without timer than this mod should not exist at all.

[Voidwielder]

Timers in WoW are retarded and it's absolutely possible to create hard content without stupid timers. They god the idea from WotLK when people, because they were fucking BORED, were doing heroic timed runs. Instead of giving people clever hard content where overall speed doesn't matter, but brain cells do, they've went the easy way. And of course it was very successful, because today speed > brain cells in most people.

False dichotomy. You need foresight, particulatly as tank and a healer, to do everything at and after 15.

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Without timer you can actualy afford to play variety of team conmos without need of min maxing which is not fun at all.

Min maxing has been a thing since day 1.

You want to do keys as Feral with your Veng friend, Demo, Disc and Arms friends? Nothing is stopping you, you can get your 15s achievement.

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Raid boss fights only take like 5 minutes at a time. You get plenty of breaks in between. M+ can go up into the realms of 40 minutes of dedicated focus, and it becomes logistically difficult to gaurantee that amount of time without interruptions. It also honestly tires me out to maintain razor focus for that long.

I've advocated "stop timer for X amount once per run" button since day one.

[CrawlFromThePit]

It just promotes rush rush rush gameplay, and sets up pugs for toxicity.

Maybe just add an option to run them with one chest at the end, without a timer? That keeps everyone happy.

It doesn't make me happy. I don't want people to be reward for being mediocre. Not just for the game but for literally everything in existence. There's already too many games out there giving free gift to players accomplishing nothing worthy of a reward.

Earning and deserving are lost values today, it's pretty pathetic.

[The Butt Witch]

Uh...no because the timer is quite literally THE difficulty. All those affixes mean nothing if you can just fail all the way to its completion.

It's the same as the enrage timer on raid bosses. Without it, a tank and a healer could eventually duo the boss. Hell, some tanks used to be able to solo raid bosses at current content, look up Mionelol.

[Elias01]

False dichotomy. You need foresight, particulatly as tank and a healer, to do everything at and after 15.

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Min maxing has been a thing since day 1.

You want to do keys as Feral with your Veng friend, Demo, Disc and Arms friends? Nothing is stopping you, you can get your 15s achievement.

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I've advocated "stop timer for X amount once per run" button since day one.

Yes minmaxing was thing but only for small minority what wanted to push that 2% more dmg above others. Today min maxing is requarment to do high end content not option.

[CrawlFromThePit]

Actualy majority of players do not care aboit challenge. Challenge is just way to make content fun but its horrible as goal. And yes its actualy super boring when you have to do anything on timer. Without timer you can actualy afford to play variety of team conmos without need of min maxing which is not fun at all. And yes if Blizz cant make mythic+ challenging without timer than this mod should not exist at all.

You can finish a 15 in time with literally all the underperfoming specs in the game. How you play makes a bigger difference than what you play. Anything beyond 15 is irrelevant.

[Voidwielder]

Yes minmaxing was thing but only for small minority what wanted to push that 2% more dmg above others. Today min maxing is requarment to do high end content not option.

*yawn*

You must be new. Or you just weren't paying attention.

[barrsftw]

I fully admit me, and the people I run with, probably are not good enough to run high keys.

The point is, a timed hard 5 man, and a hard 5 man, are 2 very very different experiences.

I'm not suggesting taking away current m+, just give us an option to do, say, a +7, without a timer on it, with a predictable reward at the end.

I personally would run way more dungeons if this were to exist.

I could see a system where you can elect to have the timer enabled or not:
- A non timed run rewards 2 items
- A timed run rewards 3+ (depending on time)
- A failed time run rewards 1.

You'd get a fair amount of people doing both systems. You'd probably even have groups that intended to do non-timed, but after seeing the group's gear / experience they may elect to try to time it.

[Kehego]

I could see a system where you can elect to have the timer enabled or not:
- A non timed run rewards 2 items
- A timed run rewards 3+ (depending on time)
- A failed time run rewards 1.

You'd get a fair amount of people doing both systems. You'd probably even have groups that intended to do non-timed, but after seeing the group's gear / experience they may elect to try to time it.

Nah.

M+ is fine. Learn to play

[barrsftw]

Nah.

M+ is fine. Learn to play

It can be better. Learn to have an open mind.