WOW- Now pay to win?

[rhorle]

I mean, whether those mounts are there to boost token sales or not is debatable, yet removing the Brutosaur has no precendence, Goldsink mounts were not removed previously, which just screams Disney vault to me.

I think it is less about the gold sink though and more about the Auction House. They clearly still want to limit AH access to certain spots of the game since they don't add them to the expansion capitals. Its dumb but I think it is less about a vault and more about regretting the AH access and the eventual proliferation when/if gold inflation occurs.

[Lolites]

True that, I'm convinced. I'm indeed more likely to believe your word for it than of the countless sims and numbers readily available online. Corruptions don't affect the numbers in the game all that much. Thank you random forum guy.

you are right, i should believe simulations over ingame reality... how could i be so blind... to not ignore you sooner

[Tident]

We know for a fact that high-end guilds aiming for world first were going out of their way to buy all the available BOEs. This would have the dual effect of both improving their own performance, and to stunt the performance of competitors by draining the market of available upgrades. Granted, this is only a handful of guilds. But that handful of guilds was having an extreme impact on the available supply for the duration of the world first race. Enough so that some of the less wealthy competitors weren't able to keep up.

This probably wasn't enough to make a significant impact on the scale of the world market for token prices, but it almost certainly caused a small spike from that added activity during that period of time.

If anything, I think it would be more accurate to say that the BOEs were released in this manner to add another aspect to the world first race. Since we know that Blizzard still marginally cares about the esports events like this(although less than they used to).

It's just very difficult for me to believe that this wasn't a calculated move. Blizzard has access to so much data and so many metrics for determining things like this, that it's almost impossible for me to believe that they didn't do it on purpose.

I think you overestimate blizzards capabilities they have data but they are poor fortune tellers.

Best example I can give is shard of woe making arcane mages do three times the damage of the next highest dps before being nerfed to double.

Blizzard for all its experience has only ever had a loose grasp on understanding how it's own systems intermingle with one another.

We ran into a similar though less extreme example of this boe issue with the bmah selling mythic gear before the raid opened.

I don't think this large of a impact was intended.

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https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/ne...-the-wow-token

Nope try again. Provide a record or stop claiming they said something.

Removing it is not counter productive to being a gold sink. Because they can always add a new gold sink. Besides if it was targeted towards whales then removing it is counter productive for the same reason as the gold sink. And it wouldn't be tied to token prices because whales would have bought the mount if they wanted it anyways.

Except your logic doesn't hold much water... removing it makes a buy now or lose out situation. A key tactic for whale hunting while removing a gold sink just makes it harder to sink gold.. there isn't a net gain from doing it.

[Beet]

is there anyone apart from guilds trying to compete for world first like Method or Limit actualy wiling to spend some 80-120euro to buy single item?
if so, i pity the fool

Uh yes. You have fools spending $500 for one item on classic WoW and this content is clearable with full greens. Don’t under estimate the people who want to pump.

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buying BoE’s has been a thing since
Classic so if that’s your metric then the game has always been P2W.

No? You couldn’t buy gold directly from Blizz so that is literally not pay to win.

The game is definitely got the p2w element now and it is what it is.

[rhorle]

Except your logic doesn't hold much water... removing it makes a buy now or lose out situation. A key tactic for whale hunting while removing a gold sink just makes it harder to sink gold.. there isn't a net gain from doing it.

But the token history does not fit your logic either. Because there have not been large shifts to indicate a bunch of whales being caught. Also fear of missing out doesn't really apply to the whales in this case but more the "on the fence" people. Who are not whales but don't want to miss out.

[Kralljin]

I think it is less about the gold sink though and more about the Auction House. They clearly still want to limit AH access to certain spots of the game since they don't add them to the expansion capitals. Its dumb but I think it is less about a vault and more about regretting the AH access and the eventual proliferation when/if gold inflation occurs.

Considering that previous Mounts also did have npc's that offered services usually only found in cities, that explanation doesn't hold water.
Especially in the light of the fact in order to make use of the AH, you still need a Mailbox, which requires other tools in order to be portable, a downside that other mounts do not have.

It's not like there was a blue post about it and the reasoning on the removal was omitted, so that's just speculation on your part.
The mount isn't even gone forever, it's already confirmed that it goes to the BMAH, so you can still buy - just for more gold.

[Tident]

But the token history does not fit your logic either. Because there have not been large shifts to indicate a bunch of whales being caught. Also fear of missing out doesn't really apply to the whales in this case but more the "on the fence" people. Who are not whales but don't want to miss out.

I don't think whales are large enough to influence sales themselves I just think it is a way for blizzard to get a little more on the side from practices that don't benefit the playerbase.

I think it is a small change that netted them a few extra thousands.

[Eurhetemec]

I mean, whether those mounts are there to boost token sales or not is debatable, yet removing the Brutosaur has no precendence, Goldsink mounts were not removed previously, which just screams Disney vault to me.

That's one way to look at it and definitely not invalid. But also consider 5 years from now when instead of, say, 5% of players having it, more like 30% or 50% do. And how that might look and feel. I think they may be trying to step back from a mistake.

[The Butt Witch]

Activision preparing for the inevitable F2P coming soon.

[sam86]

thats just objectively wrong, selling gold, items and boosts for real money was there since the begining of vanila...

if u talking about illegal that's like government selling cocaine because they can't stop drug lords from selling it

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You must have played on an extremely low pop server in wrath because there were definitely boost sold. We did them weekly in 10 and 25 man ICC. We sold everything from mount runs to gear runs. We sold to 3 gms at the time weekly getting them the achievement mounts and gear. Even in BC you could buy KJ and illidan runs for gear.

was there even a low pop server in wrath era, or even medium?
all servers eu were high or high, also u can tell that some high servers like twisting neither at least have more horde than my server Ghostlands
honestly the only servers i remember not see high were new servers, which was like pre 3.1 or something

[Relapses]

Activision preparing for the inevitable F2P coming soon.

How is it possible to think like this? This has absolutely nothing to with "F2P" and nothing about Corrupted gear indicates as much.

[The Butt Witch]

How is it possible to think like this? This has absolutely nothing to with "F2P" and nothing about Corrupted gear indicates as much.

F2P MMOs are usually P2W. They don't have a sub, usually no box price either, but they sell other things, such as a special currency for real money, which you can then use to buy powerful items.

WoW does that already. They sell tokens for real money. Buy tokens for real money, exchange them for gear, using the in-game gold as an intermediary.
All that remains to be done is to make lots of BoEs drop, so more people buy them.

Before you know it, you spent $1000 in tokens on BoEs.

[Lolites]

if u talking about illegal that's like government selling cocaine because they can't stop drug lords from selling it

which was actualy done with some drugs in several countries around the world and always led to decrease of consumption, medical expenses and cases of overdose...

and sure it was "illegal" but tolerated by blizz as they didnt want to ban people PAYING the subscription...

[justandulas]

Well, if you want to try that route. Blizzard is not selling the item either. That item was obtained from another player which played and got the item within the game rules.

A player cannot just buy the item on demand. Just as a player cannot buy gold on demand. That gold is obtained from another player. Just like the BoE. So can Blizzard claim to be in control of the supply?

Yes when they allow the items to be BoE, the mythic ones, they open the door for the pay to win chatter

Granted, imo, it’s a bit overblown and only really affects a small % of players pushing high end mythic raiding but it is still there.

But I find a lot of the outrage a tad much, and may just be pushback against yet another unpopular system (corruption) tacked onto an expansion that was full of unpopular secondary systems

[Relapses]

F2P MMOs are usually P2W. They don't have a sub, usually no box price either, but they sell other things, such as a special currency for real money, which you can then use to buy powerful items.

WoW does that already. They sell tokens for real money. Buy tokens for real money, exchange them for gear, using the in-game gold as an intermediary.
All that remains to be done is to make lots of BoEs drop, so more people buy them.

Before you know it, you spent $1000 in tokens on BoEs.

No, they won't. And to think they will is absolute insanity. There is not a single living (sane) soul who invests that kind of money into WoW. You're making a rule for the game that impacts less than a hundred players when there are millions who play. It doesn't make any sense.

[rhorle]

Using a token, for the express reason of buying a boe, which guarantees you a boe, is not the same as using a token for sub. You're really missing my point here

Using a token for the express purpose of getting stuff is not the same as using it to get a BoE? In both cases you are paying to get stuff. The problem is that doesn't fit the view so "Pay to Win" has stipulations and other rules attached to it in order to fit the view of the person trying to make the argument. Again buying a gold with a token only opens the possiblity of obtaining a BoE.

It does not magically create a BoE. So you are only buying the possibility. The same exact thing you stated a subscription enables. Yet one is pay to win and the other is not.

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F2P MMOs are usually P2W. They don't have a sub, usually no box price either, but they sell other things, such as a special currency for real money, which you can then use to buy powerful items.

Actually a lot of free to play MMOs have subscriptions. They also have box prices but are sometimes included in the subscription.

And if as you say more and more super powered BoE drops happen then it would be even sillier to use tokens to buy them. As you would get less gold per token. A person spending 7.5 million (1k with 150k per token) would likely easily get the gold from selling carries. A person spending 1k for a few months of gear is also silly and should never be used as the baseline.

[Tantaburs]

Because Method didn't buy any? Nor did any other guild in the race?

Never said they didn't. Method and Limit had about equal resources to compete with each other but how many other guilds did?.

Could all of the top 10 guild invest the amount of gold that Limit and Method did? Did the top 20?

[caervek]

I see 475ilvl items with socket and good corruption for like 2-3 million on the AH. So now ppl buy wow tokens for real life money and then buy this items...

It became P2W when they added tokens (though in fairness this was just them legalising/monopolising the gold selling that had been in the game since vanilla, the introduction of tokens just made P2W official).

[Polarthief]

It's a good thing CF is only lasting for this tier and MOST DEFINITELY not going into SL... right?

[Yayeet]

BoEs typically weren't 15%+ damage increases though.

I wouldn't exactly call it "P2W", but it's certainly closer to that than it's ever been before. Preach/Bay had an entire discussion on this after the world first race, with multiple guilds spending 100m+ gold on corruption BoEs.

Guess you didn't play wod. Those boe trinkets from the first raid were half the damage of the player at the time, especially the melee and caster trinket.