"The MMO market is dying" is an awful excuse/argument

[Flower Milk]

Yes, it's probably in a decline and is nowhere near 12 million subscribers like Wrath had, that was quite literally an almost impossible feat and achievement for WoW and should be commended.

But if you continuously tell Blizzard that the MMO market is dying and that's your reasoning for why WoW is in decline, you might as well be telling them to stop investing money in WoW. They are a business after all, and if they think a market is dying off, why would they continue spending money on development of a game for a dying market? If you care about the game at all, stop saying this.

If you think that WoW is in a decline because of some bad game design decisions, then you still believe the game can be turned around with some better game design decisions and not be in a decline anymore.

Which of these opinions do you think is more helpful for the game? Which person do you think cares more about the game, the one who thinks the MMO market is dying and WoW is in decline because of it and there's nothing that can be done to save it, or the person that thinks some better game design decisions can still turn the game around?

Pick your battles wisely.

[The Butt Witch]

WoW is the only MMO I liked. Tried almost all other MMOs, they're all trash, tbh.

And my interest in WoW now is at an all time low. When I'm done with WoW, I'll be done with the MMO genre as a whole.

And no, I doubt Activision has the talent and will to turn WoW around. They don't seem to know how to do anything beyond world quests and AP grind with a different name each expansion.

[Ghostile]

If MMO market is not in decline, where did all the players go from the genre?

[Advent]

Either one can be a delusion, there is no telling which one is really the case. Most often I see people argue that the MMO market is dying because despite the recent releases over the past decade, fewer and fewer are doing well enough to justify continued development. Additionally, wow reaching 12m subscribers might have been somewhat of a fluke, because despite some more historically popular IPs, no other MMO has come close to the success of wow at its peak.

[bryroo]

You honestly think forum opinions have any kind of affect on Blizzard's business decisions?

[The Butt Witch]

You honestly think forum opinions have any kind of affect on Blizzard's business decisions?

Sadly, they don't. Hence the 1.5 mill active subs.

[korijenkins]

If MMO market is not in decline, where did all the players go from the genre?

The MMO market is in decline, but it's not a factor in why the game has declined, it's BECAUSE the game has declined.

[Willias]

If MMO market is not in decline, where did all the players go from the genre?

The place they came from before World of Warcraft was a thing.

[Ghostile]

Sadly, they don't. Hence the 1.5 mill active subs.

So, if blizzard did listen to forums, should they listen to the parts that like what they do, or the part that dislikes?

I.e Flying or no flying?

- - - Updated - - -

The place they came from before World of Warcraft was a thing.

Indeed, to the game that is currently trendy to play.

[The Butt Witch]

So, if blizzard did listen to forums, should they listen to the parts that like what they do, or the part that dislikes?

I.e Flying or no flying?

- - - Updated - - -



Indeed, to the game that is currently trendy to play.

The haters, of course. There is nothing to learn from sycophants.

And flying is a non-issue. The game has a problem with its core systems.

[Ghostile]

The haters, of course. There is nothing to learn from sycophants.

And flying is a non-issue. The game has a problem with its core systems.

So when they listen to the one group of haters and make changes, the other group becomes the haters and should be listened to?

[The Butt Witch]

So when they listen to the one group of haters and make changes, the other group becomes the haters and should be listened to?

Only an incompetent team cannot please most of the haters AND most of those who like the status-quo. Not that I would ever believe that the current WoW team is competent.

[Ghostile]

Only an incompetent team cannot please most of the haters AND most of those who like the status-quo. Not that I would ever believe that the current WoW team is competent.

One thing to remember is that forum users, MMOC and Official, are irrelevantly small group of the customer base.

Bowing to the loud, whiny minority isn't exactly the right way to go.

[Kyphael]

If MMO market is not in decline, where did all the players go from the genre?

Moved on with their lives? I stopped playing for 3 years, and even though I went back, I don't play anywhere near as much as I used to. I went from playing like 24 hours a week to like 3 hours a week because of family/relationship/full time work/responsibilities, and those 3 hours are during actual events like holidays or Timewalking. Some weeks I don't log in at all. Many moved on to have families of their own and console/mobile games. I'm a loyal consumer at heart, I don't stray from my tastes, so if I was to come back, I'd stick to WoW if/when it's still fun to me, but most players aren't like that and move on.

I agree with OP. It's a sorry scapegoat. If you're making a good game, people will play it regardless of labels.

[ParanoiD84]

When was even the last time a big new mmo released that was successful?

[Willias]

Indeed, to the game that is currently trendy to play.

Right, which really is just the norm. Doesn't mean the GENRE is dying, but it does mean it's shrinking back down. World of Warcraft, perhaps, was a lightning in a bottle scenario that no other game will ever grasp again.

I'd also argue that WoW potentially did more damage to the genre than good.

[The Butt Witch]

One thing to remember is that forum users, MMOC and Official, are irrelevantly small group of the customer base.

Bowing to the loud, whiny minority isn't exactly the right way to go.

Activision only cares about money. They don't listen to the forums at all if it's not about something that they can sell to people.

They listened when people wanted Vulpera. They didn't give a shit when people wanted account wide essences, for example. Why? Because QoL features means people play the game less, since they don't have to farm as much, and that means less time spent in the game doing random shit. Can't have that.

[Ghostile]

Activision only cares about money. They don't listen to the forums at all if it's not about something that they can sell to people.

They listened when people wanted Vulpera. They didn't give a shit when people wanted account wide essences, for example. Why? Because QoL features means people play the game less, since they don't have to farm as much, and that means less time spent in the game doing random shit. Can't have that.

In what world you have to grind essences one by one and not simultaneously on multiple characters?

[Nyel]

Tell me, if MMOs are in such a decline, why...

a) FFXIV is getting bigger and better with each expansion

and

b) Classic was able to more than double (!) WoWs subscriber numbers during its release

In general I agree, the genre is declining but it can be stopped if you do something about it. Turning your game into a grind fest ARPG or whatever like Blizzard did in BfA is not helping anyone. It basically ruined retail. The recent sub numbers are abysmal and so is most stuff that Blizzard throws out at the moment.

[Ghostile]

I'd also argue that WoW potentially did more damage to the genre than good.

It really did. Everything under 2m subs is deemed dead and gone.