"The MMO market is dying" is an awful excuse/argument

[Dystemper]

If MMO market is not in decline, where did all the players go from the genre?

Mobile games. The reason most game genres are in decline

[The Butt Witch]

In what world you have to grind essences one by one and not simultaneously on multiple characters?

I couldn't bring myself to level even one alt, thinking that I have to grind them all again, let alone multiple characters in a very alt-hating expansion.

[sam86]

wow literally made mmo, and wow killed mmo
WoD started with ~ 10.5 million player, proving the bullsh8t that 'mmo is dying'
a good game will get players, a bad game won't, proof wow itself around its many exps

[Ghostile]

a) FFXIV is getting bigger and better with each expansion

Can't wait for the expansion they remember pvp exists...

[SkagenRora]

So when they listen to the one group of haters and make changes, the other group becomes the haters and should be listened to?

They should just use common sense and not.. "What will increase our Metrics/profits" the most.

Just do what makes a good game for the players.

[The Butt Witch]

Mobile games. The reason most game genres are in decline

Mobile gaming isn't really that big of a thing in the West.

[Ghostile]

Just do what makes a good game for the players.

Which group of players?

[Willias]

When was even the last time a big new mmo released that was successful?

Been a while, and depends on what you consider successful.

FF14 and Elder Scrolls Online seem to be a couple of the more played MMOs, but neither are a recent release.

MMOs seem to have shifted into games where you share a world with other players, but all of the content is actually completed solo until you get to the level cap, and even then end game content is for small groups of players rather than large groups like EverQuest-style or World of Warcraft-style raiding.

And by that, I guess you could consider Tem Tem? Though even then, that game is still in development.

I think there have been more BAD MMOs come out lately, but that's always been the norm for the genre.

Edit: Should probably also clarify, the solo MMO style is also heavily used by mobile MMOs, many of which are also dime-a-dozen Diablo knock-offs.

[bryroo]

Sadly, they don't. Hence the 1.5 mill active subs.

Down to 1.5 million subs after how many years on the market?

And how many Wow killers have come and gone since then?

[The Butt Witch]

Which group of players?

The original Blizzard guys would know which group.

[Ghostile]

The original Blizzard guys would know which group.

Right, that's why the games they moved into were so succesfull.

[The Butt Witch]

Down to 1.5 million subs after how many years on the market?

And how many Wow killers have come and gone since then?

That was back when Activision didn't call the shots. TIMES CHANGE.

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Right, that's why the games they moved into were so succesfull.

As far as I know, none of the big guys have any ongoing projects, and not every person who worked at Blizzard at some point was a genius.

[Relapses]

You mean gaming trends should never change and what's popular will always be popular... just because some random internet stranger said so?! God damn, I've been living my life wrong this whole time. It turns out any time I have a problem with reality, all I have to do is create a blog post thread on MMO-C and there's bound to be somebody out there who lacks the same critical thinking skills as I do so they'll agree with me thereby making me correct!

Huh, who knew.

[SkagenRora]

Which group of players?

Just stop tunnel vision your Metrics and profit mindset.. Make a good game. Not something you think will make yourself the "Most money through scummy practises", Just make a good game.

[Ghostile]

As far as I know, none of the big guys have any ongoing projects, and not every person who worked at Blizzard at some point was a genius.

Remember Wildstar, made by a company started by some of the original blizzard guys?

Made for original wow fans?

Current playerbase of 0.

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Just make a good game.

But some people consider wow a good game atm.

Is your definition of a good game more important than theirs?

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Tell me, if MMOs are in such a decline, why...

a) FFXIV is getting bigger and better with each expansion

FFXIV is not a good example of the mmo market being alive and well it’s grow is pathetically small compared to say wow’s lunch or even tbc when mmos were at there peak.

[SkagenRora]

R

But some people consider wow a good game atm.

Is your definition of a good game more important than theirs?

I have fun in WoW, But.. most people don't since so many left, and MMO-champ is filled with haters and complainers, so something has to be broken and in the need of fixing right? If there are so much salt on the forums?

[Dystemper]

Mobile gaming isn't really that big of a thing in the West.

Mobile games still do far better then console or pc at the moment

[Relapses]

Just stop tunnel vision your Metrics and profit mindset.. Make a good game. Not something you think will make yourself the "Most money through scummy practises", Just make a good game.

Oh, oh! Is this in line with the idea that Blizzard needs to make the game "fun" again? Because, you know, we all universally agree what defines fun in a MMO and this is a very easy task for Blizzard to accomplish they just need to listen to the right portion of the playerbase.

[CrawlFromThePit]

Yes, it's probably in a decline and is nowhere near 12 million subscribers like Wrath had, that was quite literally an almost impossible feat and achievement for WoW and should be commended.

But if you continuously tell Blizzard that the MMO market is dying and that's your reasoning for why WoW is in decline, you might as well be telling them to stop investing money in WoW. They are a business after all, and if they think a market is dying off, why would they continue spending money on development of a game for a dying market? If you care about the game at all, stop saying this.

If you think that WoW is in a decline because of some bad game design decisions, then you still believe the game can be turned around with some better game design decisions and not be in a decline anymore.

Which of these opinions do you think is more helpful for the game? Which person do you think cares more about the game, the one who thinks the MMO market is dying and WoW is in decline because of it and there's nothing that can be done to save it, or the person that thinks some better game design decisions can still turn the game around?

Pick your battles wisely.

Here's the battle that I wisely picked and wish more people did the same: give up on WoW and hope Blizzard does the same so they can stop throwing bandages at this dying game and make something new, fresh and better instead.