Why cant we just have fun?

[omeomorfismo]

Well "as possible". I would prefer something on Teldrassil level. With herding civilians from three zones into one and then torching it... Or at least Soutshore like. With massive bombardment of some extra-nasty WMD. Shaw even makes a comment about that when Saurfang deems to open his mouth.

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Well... Horde had that, so its clearly possible. And they were armed because when you go there they all have weapons and even mechs. Its just elemental was waaay too powerful for their guns and bombs.

horde doesnt have that, only the very last part of the warcampaign had some resemblance of it. you can punch down eitrigg, you can kill people outside the gates, thats all. we dont partecipate to brennhandam, we have just to help the shitty cow since dazaralor raid

[VladlTutushkin]

horde doesnt have that, only the very last part of the warcampaign had some resemblance of it. you can punch down eitrigg, you can kill people outside the gates, thats all. we dont partecipate to brennhandam, we have just to help the shitty cow since dazaralor raid

Well Soutshore happened offscreen too, but all could participate in War of Thorns and burning. And think of that - we dont even get those bits. At all.

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Well OP, probably not the answer you're looking for, but you could always roleplay the kinds of scenarios you want to have happen with other like-minded people.

RP without "foundation" in game is... weak.

[Mehrunes]

An attack on a military fleet (which was on a Morally BlackOps mission) and attack on a Zuldazar that pretty much was under orders from Anduin to make it as "non warcriminal as possible" dosent exactly screams "morally grey" (as Blizz understand that) to me. Also, your attempts at sarcasm are as weak, sloppy and add nothign to discussion as usual.

What sarcasm? You are the very exact person that actually argued that Blizzard wrote Night Elven storyline in BfA the way they did to make Alliance players depressed. And an attack with no casus belli whatsoever is most certainly something that falls under the category of morally grey to anyone that doesn't want to have their cake and eat it too in regards to Alliance's portrayal.

"not warcriminal" literally the first trashes are molten giants. lulz

Remember when Earthen Ring was against Garrosh using Molten Giants because that practice threatened an event akin to the Cataclysm? I member.

[VladlTutushkin]

What sarcasm? You are the very exact person that actually argued that Blizzard wrote Night Elven storyline in BfA the way they did to make Alliance players depressed. And an attack with no casus belli whatsoever is most certainly something that falls under the category of morally grey to anyone that doesn't want to have their cake and eat it too in regards to Alliance's portrayal.




Remember when Earthen Ring was against Garrosh using Molten Giants because that practice threatened an event akin to the Cataclysm? I member.

You really dont see the problem here? Attacking a military fleet is not the same as subjecting uncounted thousands of souls to a fiery death and then so suffering in the Maw. I want that stuff, not "muh Greymane so bad for attacking Banshee that ruined his nation, killed his son and exiled his people" and she btw did that without provocation and suffered no reprimand for it until he obviously aggroed on her.
And about Giants - we kinda extinguished that one without causing so much as a minor earthquake.
P.S. - they exactly wanted a "strong emotional response" from their writing of Night elfs. So yes, that counts as "wanted players to be sad and angry".

[omeomorfismo]

Well Soutshore happened offscreen too, but all could participate in War of Thorns and burning. And think of that - we dont even get those bits. At all.

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RP without "foundation" in game is... weak.

sure, but you can literally smash human's heads in the northwest farms, these were great times for forsaken players

You really dont see the problem here? Attacking a military fleet is not the same as subjecting uncounted thousands of souls to a fiery death and then so suffering in the Maw. I want that stuff, not "muh Greymane so bad for attacking Banshee that ruined his nation, killed his son and exiled his people" and she btw did that without provocation and suffered no reprimand for it until he obviously aggroed on her.
And about Giants - we kinda extinguished that one without causing so much as a minor earthquake.
P.S. - they exactly wanted a "strong emotional response" from their writing of Night elfs. So yes, that counts as "wanted players to be sad and angry".

first, sylvanas was compelled by garrosh to invade gilneas, otherwise undercity would be scorched by the korkron
second, the giants were rampant in the zocalo

[VladlTutushkin]

sure, but you can literally smash human's heads in the northwest farms, these were great times for forsaken players

Thats what i am talking about.

[Mehrunes]

You really dont see the problem here? Attacking a military fleet is not the same as subjecting uncounted thousands of souls to a fiery death and then so suffering in the Maw. I want that stuff, not "muh Greymane so bad for attacking Banshee that ruined his nation, killed his son and exiled his people" and she btw did that without provocation and suffered no reprimand for it until he obviously aggroed on her.

I don't recall making any comparisons. Though given how the Forsaken don't drown, most Forsaken casualties in that attack happened through incendiary means. And since the mechanics of Shadowlands have been broken already in Legion, the Forsaken that died there were also subjected to suffering in the Maw. On top of that, by the end of the questline Genn knowingly and deliberately fucked with Sylvanas attempting to secure a future for herself and her entire people. For which he not only suffered no reprimand from his "I'm totally serious about peace" High King either, but was then brought by him to a peaceful meeting between humans and the Forsaken because Anduin wanted to parade his unpunished ass in front of Sylvanas.

And not only was Gilneas already fucked waaaaay beyond the Forsaken invasion (largely due to Genn's own blatant shortcomings as a ruler, with a dash of Cataclysm being particularly cataclysmic in the area), not only were the Worgen not exiled by Sylvanas as they chose to flee themselves, not only was Sylvanas not even there when Garrosh started the war, but he sold the war to the Forsaken on grounds of Gilneans abandoning the people of Lordaeron and letting them die even right at their gates which kinda provoked quite a lot of them.

And about Giants - we kinda extinguished that one without causing so much as a minor earthquake.

Yay, we dealt with the problem before it spiraled out of control. That obviously magically erases Alliance's wrongdoings in causing it in the first place.

[VladlTutushkin]

I don't recall making any comparisons. Though given how the Forsaken don't drown, most Forsaken casualties in that attack happened through incendiary means. And since the mechanics of Shadowlands have been broken already in Legion, the Forsaken that died there were also subjected to suffering in the Maw. On top of that, by the end of the questline Genn knowingly and deliberately fucked with Sylvanas attempting to secure a future for herself and her entire people.

And not only was Gilneas already fucked waaaaay beyond the Forsaken invasion (largely due to Genn's own blatant shortcomings as a ruler, with a dash of Cataclysm being particularly cataclysmic in the area), not only were the Worgen not exiled by Sylvanas as they chose to flee themselves, not only was Sylvanas not even there when Garrosh started the war, but he sold the war to the Forsaken on grounds of Gilneans abandoning the people of Lordaeron and letting them die even right at their gates which kinda provoked quite a lot of them.

Your excuses for Gilneas not being a damnable action are... disgusting. To say the least. On that basis we can whitewash anything really. Dazarl'Alor included. Also as we learned "future of her entire people" never mattered much for our girl Sylvie. She wanted them to abandon hope and stop clinging to life apparently.

[omeomorfismo]

Thats what i am talking about.

then you can play some dwarven quest for this?
pretty sure there are some in searing gorge where dwarfs ask you to kill for fun

Your excuses for Gilneas not being a damnable action are... disgusting. To say the least. On that basis we can whitewash anything really. Dazarl'Alor included. Also as we learned "future of her entire people" never mattered much for our girl Sylvie. She wanted them to abandon hope and stop clinging to life apparently.

that would secure future for the forsaken. developing plague for example. the hatred and vengeance fuelled its research. and this alone made them one of the most strong force of azeroth. she is right (for the forsaken)

[Mehrunes]

Your excuses for Gilneas not being a damnable action are... disgusting. To say the least. On that basis we can whitewash anything really. Dazarl'Alor included.

You seem to be on a particularly good roll when it comes to conjuring things that don't actually exist in what you're replying to up today.

Also as we learned "future of her entire people" never mattered much for our girl Sylvie. She wanted them to abandon hope and stop clinging to life apparently.

Despite your attempt at pretending otherwise here, wanting to preserve the Forsaken isn't mutually exclusive with wanting them to stop clinging to hope. For god's sake, she opened that tangent with saying how she doesn't care for the living and making the entire bit about the Forsaken a contrast to that, which is a rather clear indication that about them she did care.

[VladlTutushkin]

You seem to be on a particularly good roll when it comes to conjuring things that don't actually exist in what you're replying to up today.




Despite your attempt at pretending otherwise here, wanting to preserve the Forsaken isn't mutually exclusive with wanting them to stop clinging to hope. For god's sake, she opened that tangent with saying how she doesn't care for the living and making the entire bit about the Forsaken a contrast to that, which is a rather clear indication that about them she did care.

Arguing with you is a treat, on a level of shoveling through a pile of manure with your bare hands while discussion art with a blind man.

[Mehrunes]

Arguing with you is a treat, on a level of shoveling through a pile of manure with your bare hands while discussion art with a blind man.

Trying to deflect from the fact that your previous post consisted of a straw-man and a misrepresentation with outright flaming isn't particularly effective. Just the opposite, it only highlights how you have no proper arguments. And your ableist remark about the blind isn't even logical as not all art requires vision to appreciate.

[Rozz]

Simmer down, don't get personal.

[VladlTutushkin]

Trying to deflect from the fact that your previous post consisted of a straw-man and a misrepresentation with outright flaming isn't particularly effective. Just the opposite, it only highlights how you have no proper arguments. And your ableist remark about the blind isn't even logical as not all art requires vision to appreciate.

I meant art as if "pictures". Or photos. And also, i just learned that arguing with you is pointless. For a person who claims that my opinion is somehow skewed you dont even notice your own biases or prejudices.

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Simmer down, don't get personal.

Alright... But "Worgens were not exiled by sylvanas" is a bit too rich.

[Yuli]

You seem to be on a particularly good roll when it comes to conjuring things that don't actually exist in what you're replying to up today.

I think you're right in one point, she does care for the forsaken in a smart way actually. She wants to remove death and "set us all free" because not only her but all undead would be free from the destiny that is death, a thing every Forsaken understands better than any living race in our ranks.

I have to disagree on Gilneas though. The Gilneans didn't flee because they wanted to. After the worgen and the Cataclysm, Sylvanas used that moment and the broken wall to conquer Gilneas. And Gilneas lost. The night elves had like 10-20 people and some glaives. Sylvanas had a giant forsaken army right behind the border and already in Gilneas that pushed them outwards. Had they not fled right there and then, they would've died to the attack. The night elven support was a miracle. Sure, Gilneas was fucked already, but it could've survived that with a new furry culture, Sylvanas killed every possibility of that. And that's not "disgusting", it's war, simple as that. They had to come back with a plan to reconquer Gilneas and in the end Gilneas was "fallen, with nothing but "wind, sorrow and ruin" in the land."
And yes, I know, they left a liberation party under Crowley there, but they evacuated everything else and waited for reinforcements to start more operations.

(Gamepedia: Invasion of Gilneas. Would post the link, but can't do that yet)

[VladlTutushkin]

I think you're right in one point, she does care for the forsaken in a smart way actually. She wants to remove death and "set us all free" because not only her but all undead would be free from the destiny that is death, a thing every Forsaken understands better than any living race in our ranks.

I have to disagree on Gilneas though. The Gilneans didn't flee because they wanted to. After the worgen and the Cataclysm, Sylvanas used that moment and the broken wall to conquer Gilneas. And Gilneas lost. The night elves had like 10-20 people and some glaives. Sylvanas had a giant forsaken army right behind the border and already in Gilneas that pushed them outwards. Had they not fled right there and then, they would've died to the attack. The night elven support was a miracle. Sure, Gilneas was fucked already, but it could've survived that with a new furry culture, Sylvanas killed every possibility of that. And that's not "disgusting", it's war, simple as that.
And yes, I know, they left a liberation party under Crowley there, but they evacuated everything else.

And what i want is part of that "this is not disgusting, this is war". With all the skinning, gutting and slaughtering i can take. And i will sure as hell come for a second serving.

[Mehrunes]

I have to disagree on Gilneas though. The Gilneans didn't flee because they wanted to. After the worgen and the Cataclysm, Sylvanas used that moment and the broken wall to conquer Gilneas. And Gilneas lost. The night elves had like 10-20 people and some glaives. Sylvanas had a giant forsaken army right behind the border and already in Gilneas that pushed them outwards. Had they not fled right there and then, they would've died to the attack. The night elven support was a miracle. Sure, Gilneas was fucked already, but it could've survived that with a new furry culture, Sylvanas killed every possibility of that. And that's not "disgusting", it's war, simple as that.
And yes, I know, they left a liberation party under Crowley there, but they evacuated everything else.

I didn't say they wanted to. I said they were the ones to make that choice. And as unwilling as it was, it was still their choice. And I was responding to a post accusing Sylvanas of exiling the Worgen. Which is a stretch to say the least. She didn't even interact with them at that point, let alone made any demands for them to fuck off. Because she didn't really give that much of a damn about them to begin with and considered the entire war as a whole to be yet another example of Garrosh's idiocy. On top of that, when GLF did not follow Genn's exodus only to ultimately get defeated by Sylvanas, she didn't exile even them even then. She only demanded GLF's unconditional surrender. Which doesn't exactly fit the picture of the great exiler of the Worgen.

[Zuben]

I'd love the Alliance to drop their pretense of moral high ground, it would make it more fun both to play them as well as kill them. The anti-Reliquary mission in Voldun in its entirety left such a sour taste in my mouth. After hunting archaeologists with a kind of weak justification, stealing what little local Zandalari exiles have because the genius leading the mission didn't think to pack supplies, and killing said exiles for fun, Wyrmbane has the gall to judge Horde for employing San'layn for the battlefield. I get that Shandris is angry over Teldrassil, but she came off as such a major bitch. Nobody in the expedition questioned what they were doing, they were simply making excuses to themselves to whitewash their deeds. On Horde side we saw plenty of second guessing and fighting with one's own morals. I haven't played Alliance's side of the story in its entirety yet, but so far it looks like they believe they're doing good work. Feels like Anduin is alone in feeling bad.

Since I mentioned Voldun, yeah, it's also the site of Alliance purge squads going all schutzstaffel on local fox creatures. I wouldn't mind the Alliance being like this, but they should own it.

[VladlTutushkin]

I'd love the Alliance to drop their pretense of moral high ground, it would make it more fun both to play them as well as kill them. The anti-Reliquary mission in Voldun in its entirety left such a sour taste in my mouth. After hunting archaeologists with a kind of weak justification, stealing what little local Zandalari exiles have because the genius leading the mission didn't think to pack supplies, and killing said exiles for fun, Wyrmbane has the gall to judge Horde for employing San'layn for the battlefield. I get that Shandris is angry over Teldrassil, but she came off as such a major bitch. Nobody in the expedition questioned what they were doing, they were simply making excuses to themselves to whitewash their deeds. On Horde side we saw plenty of second guessing and fighting with one's own morals. I haven't played Alliance's side of the story in its entirety yet, but so far it looks like they believe they're doing good work. Feels like Anduin is alone in feeling bad.

Since I mentioned Voldun, yeah, it's also the site of Alliance purge squads going all schutzstaffel on local fox creatures. I wouldn't mind the Alliance being like this, but they should own it.

"Archaelogists" dosent count as civilians or non-military staff though, at least so Horde belives. And we saw what Reliquary and Horde diggers in general bring - look no further then Vale of Eternal Blossom. And then we also have the problem with those exiles being condemned bandits and murderers who did stuff so heinous that some of them worship a thunder lizard that can wipe their brains clean so they forget their crimes. And no, camp of "good" exiles was further to the south, in game we attack a camp that we also go after as Horde in Vol'Dun because they are some nasty bastards there.

[Paperfox]

None of my blood elves are angsty, much less extra angsty.