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  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by Paperfox View Post
    None of my blood elves are angsty, much less extra angsty.
    I meant those that are "sylvanas leaning", not the usual sort.

  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by VladlTutushkin View Post
    "Archaelogists" dosent count as civilians or non-military staff though, at least so Horde belives. And we saw what Reliquary and Horde diggers in general bring - look no further then Vale of Eternal Blossom. And then we also have the problem with those exiles being condemned bandits and murderers who did stuff so heinous that some of them worship a thunder lizard that can wipe their brains clean so they forget their crimes. And no, camp of "good" exiles was further to the south, in game we attack a camp that we also go after as Horde in Vol'Dun because they are some nasty bastards there.
    I'd say archaeologists are a grey area, since Wyrmbane did take a moment during briefing to address why they would attack people digging for relics. Alliance didn't know what the Reliquary was doing in the area, it was just assumed they were searching for weapons. Which has been their modus operandi several times, so I suppose they can be accepted as enemy combatants. Still felt off, us going on an assassination mission on what looks like civilians. The player isn't supposed to be a soldier but a champion aiding the armed forces. This feeling of something being wrong in it was enhanced by Shandris's callous and revenge-sating attitude.

    On the exiles, the Alliance had no idea what they were about, Shandris just declared them Horde purely because they were the same race as those who allied with the Horde, never mind that such a ragtag crew couldn't possibly be an organized platoon. At face value they were just people trying to survive in harsh conditions. So what they were wasn't touched on and the Alliance had a shoddy excuse to kill them.

    Again, I don't mind if the Alliance acts like this, but they need to own it. It would make the faction more enjoyable to me, both as the patron of my alt and the enemy of my main. Like, I'm agreeing with your opening post. I hope Tyrande makes some serious waves within the faction and doesn't act like it's good and just rather than her sating her hatred. Genn and Rogers attacked the Forsaken in Stormheim to do just that and I don't recall them trying to whitewash it. They owned it.
    Now you see it. Now you don't.

  3. #43
    Bloodsail Admiral froschhure's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LarryFromHumanResources View Post
    Let's be honest, the Alliance died with Varian.
    OUFF dat captain hook

  4. #44
    As a future Alliance player (presuming I start back up playing WOW with Shadowlands) I can say that I didn't quite the dumpster fire Blizzard made of the Horde only to have to go through the same thing as an Alliiance.

  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by Zuben View Post
    I'd say archaeologists are a grey area, since Wyrmbane did take a moment during briefing to address why they would attack people digging for relics. Alliance didn't know what the Reliquary was doing in the area, it was just assumed they were searching for weapons. Which has been their modus operandi several times, so I suppose they can be accepted as enemy combatants. Still felt off, us going on an assassination mission on what looks like civilians. The player isn't supposed to be a soldier but a champion aiding the armed forces. This feeling of something being wrong in it was enhanced by Shandris's callous and revenge-sating attitude.

    On the exiles, the Alliance had no idea what they were about, Shandris just declared them Horde purely because they were the same race as those who allied with the Horde, never mind that such a ragtag crew couldn't possibly be an organized platoon. At face value they were just people trying to survive in harsh conditions. So what they were wasn't touched on and the Alliance had a shoddy excuse to kill them.

    Again, I don't mind if the Alliance acts like this, but they need to own it. It would make the faction more enjoyable to me, both as the patron of my alt and the enemy of my main. Like, I'm agreeing with your opening post. I hope Tyrande makes some serious waves within the faction and doesn't act like it's good and just rather than her sating her hatred. Genn and Rogers attacked the Forsaken in Stormheim to do just that and I don't recall them trying to whitewash it. They owned it.
    Also somehow Horde actions end up in things like territorial gains (Soutshore and entire Hillsbrad) or huge losses for the Alliance (Teldrassil) but each time Alliances is portrayed to do something “morally grey” its specifically aimed so that would do no real damage to the Horde. Like killing a gang of zandalari criminals, for example, to take their water. Hard to “own” anything when you achieved shit nothing and with the same result could have not done anything.

  6. #46
    The problem is the writers only know cliches like Lawful Stupid paladins (Hi Tirion!) and have no idea how to write good that's rough around the edges, not to mention key writers are pushing their fanfiction and political agendas.
    Quote Originally Posted by Alex86el View Post
    "Orc want, orc take." and "Orc dissagrees, orc kill you to win argument."
    Quote Originally Posted by Toho View Post
    The Horde is basically the guy that gets mad that the guy that they just beat the crap out of had the audacity to bleed on them.
    Why no, people don't just like Sylvie for T&A: https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...ery-Cinematic/

  7. #47
    Because appaerently we have to be blessed by the writers with moral lessons who are beyond idiotic, worthless, unnecessary, shallow and senseless. The other major half of the problem in my opinion are the players and community. Most of them don't even seem to be able to differentiate between a fictional fantasy story and reality. Its pretty obvious when reading most of the threads who are about the conflicts, especially when it comes to Alliance and Horde.

  8. #48
    Elemental Lord callipygoustp's Avatar
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    Every time I see a blood elf in an appropriately "interesting" transmog I'm all over their leg. Just received a three day suspension for that activity!? I was just having fun.

  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by Reinhart11 View Post
    Because appaerently we have to be blessed by the writers with moral lessons who are beyond idiotic, worthless, unnecessary, shallow and senseless. The other major half of the problem in my opinion are the players and community. Most of them don't even seem to be able to differentiate between a fictional fantasy story and reality. Its pretty obvious when reading most of the threads who are about the conflicts, especially when it comes to Alliance and Horde.
    Well, i also hated the Burning but if they went that far... Said “A” so to say, then we should expect them to say “B” too and follow through. With Alliance going “morally grey” instead we have Tyrande being scolded for not forgiving then Horde, somehow.

  10. #50
    Because Blizzard's writers are at fan fiction level. Of course the Alliance could have political factions battling each other, but the writers are so incompetent that they can't write something that deep.

  11. #51
    Ultimately the Alliance does not have the means to retaliate. In 8.1.5 we had enough strength to end the war in a matter of weeks, but since the Alliance army was somehow obliterated at Nazjatar (don't ask how the ARMY was destroyed, just smile and play along), in 8.2.5 the Alliance is supposedly in a fragile position. After the war the Alliance has suffered countless losses, we are no longer in the position of superiority we were back at the Siege of Orgrimmar, we can no longer afford to threaten the Horde with an ultimatum. So even if Anduin and co. wanted revenge, the Alliance simply cannot afford to wage another war.
    Expansion Storylines ranking:

    Legion > Cataclysm > MoP > BfA up to 8.2.5 > Wrath > TBC > WoD > Dragonflight > BfA 8.3 > Shadowlands

  12. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    Ultimately the Alliance does not have the means to retaliate. In 8.1.5 we had enough strength to end the war in a matter of weeks, but since the Alliance army was somehow obliterated at Nazjatar (don't ask how the ARMY was destroyed, just smile and play along), in 8.2.5 the Alliance is supposedly in a fragile position. After the war the Alliance has suffered countless losses, we are no longer in the position of superiority we were back at the Siege of Orgrimmar, we can no longer afford to threaten the Horde with an ultimatum. So even if Anduin and co. wanted revenge, the Alliance simply cannot afford to wage another war.
    “Cannot afford to wage another war” is a very arguable topic. And in 8.3 Baine speaks about Horde being broken and unable to support new members so that also counts. Numbers are not the key to winning wars, and with Sylvanas gone Horde lost their last “powerhouse hero” and even in Warcraft 3 a powerful hero with right tactics and items could wreak havoc on an enemy with a weak hero or without a hero. So what i am saying that even if Alliance couldnt straight up win the war there and then it was no reason to sign any kind of peace treaty and not continue the war. Retreat from Orgrimmar for example and then continue in Ashenvale, slowly but surely eradicating the Horde on Kalimdor while they cant send more forces to Eastern Kingdoms since they dont have Undercity, and will have to sail to Silvermoon since we got Arathi. Plus, winning both Warfronts means that Horde is not impossible to overcome. And Darkshore was won without Anduin’s help at all, just worgen and elfs.

  13. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mehrunes View Post
    But those examples contradict the very real story of how passive, reactive and victimized the Alliance is all the time. Which in turn may or may not be used as an argument in favor of the equally very real story of how Blizzard is ruled by the idea of HORDE BIAS, which makes everyone in the company hate the Alliance players so much they write the story with the intent of making those players clinically depressed. So those examples never happened. Duh.
    Did we go over the fact that the Alliance gunned down civilian goblin ships during Cataclysm, containing mainly women and children?
    No?

    Well I mean.. it's there.
    The most fucked up thing about Alliance is that they try to paint them on a moral high horse, when they've done some horrendous shit in lore and yet those moments are instantly glossed over or ignored.

    Meanwhile the Horde does something mildly aggressive and everyone loses their minds.

  14. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by Gungnir View Post
    Did we go over the fact that the Alliance gunned down civilian goblin ships during Cataclysm, containing mainly women and children?
    No?

    Well I mean.. it's there.
    The most fucked up thing about Alliance is that they try to paint them on a moral high horse, when they've done some horrendous shit in lore and yet those moments are instantly glossed over or ignored.

    Meanwhile the Horde does something mildly aggressive and everyone loses their minds.
    Burning alive a whole population is being mildly aggressive obviously.

  15. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by VladlTutushkin View Post
    “Cannot afford to wage another war” is a very arguable topic. And in 8.3 Baine speaks about Horde being broken and unable to support new members so that also counts. Numbers are not the key to winning wars, and with Sylvanas gone Horde lost their last “powerhouse hero” and even in Warcraft 3 a powerful hero with right tactics and items could wreak havoc on an enemy with a weak hero or without a hero. So what i am saying that even if Alliance couldnt straight up win the war there and then it was no reason to sign any kind of peace treaty and not continue the war. Retreat from Orgrimmar for example and then continue in Ashenvale, slowly but surely eradicating the Horde on Kalimdor while they cant send more forces to Eastern Kingdoms since they dont have Undercity, and will have to sail to Silvermoon since we got Arathi. Plus, winning both Warfronts means that Horde is not impossible to overcome. And Darkshore was won without Anduin’s help at all, just worgen and elfs.
    It is not an arguable topic, the very leaders of the Alliance literally tell you they cannot afford another war.

    Quote Originally Posted by Specialka View Post
    Burning alive a whole population is being mildly aggressive obviously.
    It was revenge for those 10 miners killed in Silithus.
    Expansion Storylines ranking:

    Legion > Cataclysm > MoP > BfA up to 8.2.5 > Wrath > TBC > WoD > Dragonflight > BfA 8.3 > Shadowlands

  16. #56
    The Lightbringer Ardenaso's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skildar View Post
    They will most likely bring a new side for the Alliance with Tyrande and Genn going apesht against Sylvanas and not accepting this peace.
    But you are right, for sooooo long the horde has been able to do the weirdest, saddest and most violent things to the Alliance for them each time to respond : "the world peace requires all of us from the alliance to drop down our pants"...
    this is just plain wrong!
    Genn, Tyrande, Malfurion, Danath, Vereesa, Moira, Turalyon, and Alleria should've been hungering for Horde heads at this point

  17. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    It is not an arguable topic, the very leaders of the Alliance literally tell you they cannot afford another war.



    It was revenge for those 10 miners killed in Silithus.
    Ah yes, those who attacked first the Explorators 's league expedition?

  18. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by Specialka View Post
    Ah yes, those who attacked first the Explorators 's league expedition?
    It was revenge for the assassination attempt on Sylvanas in Legion.
    Expansion Storylines ranking:

    Legion > Cataclysm > MoP > BfA up to 8.2.5 > Wrath > TBC > WoD > Dragonflight > BfA 8.3 > Shadowlands

  19. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by VladlTutushkin View Post
    “Cannot afford to wage another war” is a very arguable topic. And in 8.3 Baine speaks about Horde being broken and unable to support new members so that also counts. Numbers are not the key to winning wars, and with Sylvanas gone Horde lost their last “powerhouse hero” and even in Warcraft 3 a powerful hero with right tactics and items could wreak havoc on an enemy with a weak hero or without a hero. So what i am saying that even if Alliance couldnt straight up win the war there and then it was no reason to sign any kind of peace treaty and not continue the war. Retreat from Orgrimmar for example and then continue in Ashenvale, slowly but surely eradicating the Horde on Kalimdor while they cant send more forces to Eastern Kingdoms since they dont have Undercity, and will have to sail to Silvermoon since we got Arathi. Plus, winning both Warfronts means that Horde is not impossible to overcome. And Darkshore was won without Anduin’s help at all, just worgen and elfs.
    So you want to be as evil as the Horde and eradicate them?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    It was revenge for the assassination attempt on Sylvanas in Legion.
    It was revenge for Gilneas and Theramore!

  20. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by Specialka View Post
    So you want to be as evil as the Horde and eradicate them?

    - - - Updated - - -



    It was revenge for Gilneas and Theramore!
    Gilneas and Theramore were revenge for Camp Taurajo.

    I'm afraid our little game ends here though, since Camp Taurajo was the first morally grey act the Alliance did in WoW.
    Expansion Storylines ranking:

    Legion > Cataclysm > MoP > BfA up to 8.2.5 > Wrath > TBC > WoD > Dragonflight > BfA 8.3 > Shadowlands

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