Rejoice! D.Ks finally getting hit with nerfs to Death Strike

[Nerovar]

That was nothing compared to conversiion + deathstrike.+ blood pressence.

Deathstrike nothing atm.. if you compare it.

That's true. Early WoD DK pre conversion nerf was pretty disgusting. Death Siphon with DW mastery frost later on might have been even stronger though.

[Rucati]

You can't balance a game based on the top 100 pool. I guarantee you no balance team is intending to do so, even Blizzard's (I can't believe what I just wrote).

Edit: I still can't believe what I wrote...

Look at any other competitive game and you'll quickly find they all balance for the highest rankings. You literally have to or the game completely falls apart, it's genuinely shocking you're trying to debate this.

If you try to balance for mid tier players it makes the game hilariously broken at a high level. Look at DH, they're currently fairly good at mid tier because bad players don't understand what to do against it, but they're basically nonexistent at high tier. What happens if you nerf them? Mid tier players are happy because now they don't need to learn how to play the game, but DH becomes literally unplayable because it's already mediocre against good players.

What about Mages? There are tons of Mages at a high level, the class is strong there. It's mid tier at 1600 because the Mages there are bad and don't know how to deal damage while getting trained, so do you buff Mages to compensate for that? If you do guess what happens at a high level? Mages run rampant because the good players that already knew how to deal damage now deal a significant amount more. Or do you nerf cleaves so that the 1600 Mages can cast more? Then cleaves become completely unplayable against good players.

And it isn't just WoW, literally every competitive game does this for exactly the same reason. Balance completely falls apart if you're trying to balance the game for people who don't know how to play it in the first place.

[Raugnaut]

I mean physically slowest, as in they have the most trouble running faster than my grandma. I know they have their own ways of handling 1v1 situations. But not that I want Fury to get nerfed but doesn't Fury have more selfheals than DK's?

Fury has better burst self-healing then DKs, but less sustain overall unless whoever they are hitting is below 50% health.

[Greengrim]

That's true. Early WoD DK pre conversion nerf was pretty disgusting. Death Siphon with DW mastery frost later on might have been even stronger though.

Actually, the most absurd DK sustain was in WotLK, where you'd run Lichborne and Death Coil yourself. 3 globals used be 0-100% HP. And back then globals were 0,5 sec.

Anyway, I feel for the OP. He must really be stuck at 1200 being butthurt if he actually believes this was a much needed nerf...

[Monteverdi]

Heaven forbid people learn to kite.

[meldaern]

Wrong, wrong and wrong.

DK is one of the strongest melee in game, in both the 2v2 and 3v3 brackets.
DK, DH, Assa Rogue and WW are all very strong in their own unique ways, while Assa is in the best 3's comp in game (RMX) it doesn't always feel as "powerful" if you fight DH or WW all the time.

The reason why DK needs this nerf to death strike is in any 3s game they are simply not worth attacking unless you have a disarm and/or at 40% or more dampening. It's not possible to die.
While WW is regarded as the "strongest" melee in game, their survivability is a little harder to master with good kiting and cd usage, which is why the skill difference between poor, average and good WW is very different.
Any idiot can press death strike, this would be fine if it cost runes, which would be your main source of damage but RP is pretty much useless for dks and they keep their pool topped for strikes.

Factor in 2 of the best/frequent classes in PVP are Fire Mage and Destro lock (greater pyro/chaos bolt) which do enormous damage, a % based heal is insane vs these.

The DK nerf is 100% justified, dks are among the most played/repped classed in high end pvp comps in regards to melee, however the fact they didn't nerf DH leech is laughable.

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in regards to DK mobility

ah yes, kite the 70% slow while you yourself cannot be slowed below 70%. DK mobility used to be the butt of all jokes but in BFA they've got it pretty good in comparison to how it used to be

Not enough DKs keep chains on multiple targets and it shows, factor in your death's advance and wraith walk, you wont be having such a bad time.

[Greengrim]

...but RP is pretty much useless for dks...

This right here, disables EVERYTHING else in your post. It's actual proof that you have no clue what you're talking about.

Edit:
To all the goons who are rejoicing, and/or consider it reasonable for DKs to receive this "much deserved and long awaited" nerf. The nerf was reverted up to 30% from 20%. So even the morons at Blizzard realize what a dumbfuck this whole thing is...

[meldaern]

This right here, disables EVERYTHING else in your post. It's actual proof that you have no clue what you're talking about.

go look at any high rated DK damage breakdown and no rp spender will be in your top 6.

unless you are playing mouth breather as frost dk build, which isn't worth because people will tunnel you so you're forced to strike.

[Alanar]

That's true. Early WoD DK pre conversion nerf was pretty disgusting. Death Siphon with DW mastery frost later on might have been even stronger though.

Idd, those things were super op. Even with conversion up you could still maintain your rotation which was crazy good.

[The Butt Witch]

Lol. I quit the game last month.

[Phurox]

DK was just an alt for me but dayuummm 50% nerfs? They are the slowest melee class in the game and were mostly performing thanks to their selfheals in pvp. Really curious how DK's will manage to fight properly now.

Slowest melee class? Try outlaw rogue.

[Alaenore]

go look at any high rated DK damage breakdown and no rp spender will be in your top 6.

unless you are playing mouth breather as frost dk build, which isn't worth because people will tunnel you so you're forced to strike.

I wonder why... Perhaps because they're forced to spend RP on DS instead of their actual spender ?
Nor saying death coil is great, it isn't. But Frost Strike hits harder than obliterate, and can even increase depending on your azerite.
Especially in pvp where you stack Mastery and not crit, FS should be the highest damage done along with chill streak and frost fever.

[Greengrim]

Whining about DK’s when you have druids, shamans, monks, paladins, and DHs.

I know, right? But you missed out mage and rogue tho...

[Hyeonh]

Don't think a nerf that heavy should be warranted, they have good engagement but the worst disengagement of any melee and have to stick to an all in fighting style.

[Tyrannica]

. Rogues nerfed because mages got nerfed? Don't make me laugh, rogue is absurdly strong as a standalone already...

Thats true and now with corruption gear even a more tanky spec like outlaw can 2 shot people. Have you seen some of dalarans streams lately?

I think the minimal DS heal should have never be less than 10% and the changes would be fine, its just the max possible heal with DS might have been too high. In my long ass expierence with dks everything under a 10% DS heal is useless, we had 7% before minimal heal and it did not work.

We had the exact same situation in cata s10 with 20% minimum selfheal(and no maximum, just flat 20%) for unholy and frost dks it was too high as a minimum and blizz nerfed it to 7% which was too weak.

Looks like the dev team does not learn from its past experiements, maybe because so many left, too.

Nerfing the heal of an iconic, slow selfheal class that is supposed to heal more than any other average dd, but Fury warrior, is simply out of their mind.

Yet, they alllow stealth dds with strong selfheals, cc and mobility. and both druid and rogue perform well in pve, too, we all know how important for even pvp players pve is right now in BfA and especially that crazy corruption gear coming mainly from PvE mythic+ and raids.(weapons)

Blizz basicly removed DKs with this. Can't make a class unattractive in both pve and pve. This is horrible design, or maby they plan to buff DK for SL and this is just a deflection? Wouldn't count on that one.

in any case my final words to this topic:


Frost dk with those changes. = LOL

Affliction lock with those changes to demon armor(armor% less so hp) = Rofl

Well, its carneval time, let the clown fiesta begin, i guess.

Edit: And i do not even main or alt Dk/Locks anymore, but still consider this most outrageous in terms of general pvp class balance! Such silly changes that will never make any sense no matter how much a dev or some complete noob in a forum will twist this.

[Greengrim]

... or maby they plan to buff DK for SL and this is just a deflection? Wouldn't count on that one. ....

I giggled again, that's 2 times for this thread already! xD

[Tyrannica]

As if the removal of blood presence and the switch to RP instead of runes in Legion wasn't bad enough. Are they trying to turn DKs into Warriors?

worse warriors- fury still heals for a big amount, and arms still has more utility and MS, even without any heal.

You did not switch to DH long ago? you know the other hero class that is so much better.

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I giggled again, that's 2 times for this thread already! xD

lol indeed, but we got with MoP 1 miracle in class design...

but, tbh, i do not think this will happen ever again, they fired the guy responsible for MoPs best class changes.

[CrawlFromThePit]

good no more unholy dks at 9 million damage, 7 million healing.

while im elemental at 9 million damage 1 million healing, im a hybrid but i get outhealed by 7 times as much? retarded.

It's okay now we're both gonna be at 9 million dmg, 1 million healing an wondering why the easier class in DH is doing 15 milion dmg and 12 milion healing in less time while requiring less skill/effort from the player.

[Craaazyyy]

It's okay now we're both gonna be at 9 million dmg, 1 million healing an wondering why the easier class in DH is doing 15 milion dmg and 12 milion healing in less time while requiring less skill/effort from the player.

dk player talking about skill and effort.. though what classes these days even take skill to play? every single class was dumbed down hard.. well all of them still take some skill, but way less than they used to and some are truly braindead

[CrawlFromThePit]

dk player talking about skill and effort.. though what classes these days even take skill to play? every single class was dumbed down hard.. well all of them still take some skill, but way less than they used to and some are truly braindead

Everybody knows nothing takes much skills in this game. And everybody knows "requires less" doesn't necessarily implies one requires a lot or that the gap is gigantic between the two. If DK is 2/10 on the skill scale, DH is at 1/10. Yes they're both easy, but DH is easier on top of being better, which is against all rules of balancing.