Page 5 of 5 FirstFirst ...
3
4
5
  1. #81
    Quote Originally Posted by derpkitteh View Post
    doesn't the alliance outlaw slavery in its lands?

    the horde has slavery, the dark iron dwarves might do some shady shit in secret though.

    the real reason is that story takes a backseat in wow. it's all gameplay, sadly. it'd be great though. also, if you want to live out the fantasy of being a slaver, you should play conan exiles. you get to beat and capture people to your heart's content, it's fun.
    they have serfdom, and treat (at least under variann) them as shit

  2. #82
    The Insane Thage's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Δ Hidden Forbidden Holy Ground
    Posts
    19,105
    Quote Originally Posted by omeomorfismo View Post
    i mean, alliance just tried to assassinate sylvanas in the middle of the apocalipse in legion and murdered rastakhan in bfa (after having imprisoned his daughter and zul for reasons) :|
    Just jumping in here, technically the Zandalari never called a ceasefire with the Alliance (the Horde approached them for one after rescuing Talanji and Zul). The Zandalari declared war on both factions back in 4.1 and presented an additional problem on Pandaria as they worked with their mogu allies. With that in mind, it makes sense to capture their high priest and princess if the opportunity presented itself.

    On-topic: Given how "well" Blizzard handled a "morally-grey" Horde in MoP and BFA, I'd much prefer a bland good-guy faction. The current writers don't do morally grey well, what they do is pin atrocities to one faction then have a subfaction give lip service to pushing back, one patch or two of actual pushback, and then it's all swept under the rug and the status quo on this endless, pointless treadmill going at full sprinting speed is restored.
    Be seeing you guys on Bloodsail Buccaneers NA!



  3. #83
    Quote Originally Posted by Sharby View Post
    The usual Horde suspects popping up in every Alliance thread proving once again they have a really weird fanaticism to their faction, if they ever lessen the barrier I can't wait to see the endless stream of complaining.
    Who knew that threads were segregated by faction. And you don't have to wait if you want to see an endless stream of complaining. You can just read the "Alliance" threads about how Blizzard hates them and wants to make them depressed.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kangodo View Post
    Does the CIA pay you for your bullshit or are you just bootlicking in your free time?
    Quote Originally Posted by Mirishka View Post
    I'm quite tired of people who dislike something/disagree with something while attacking/insulting anyone that disagrees. Its as if at some point, people forgot how opinions work.

  4. #84
    Quote Originally Posted by Mehrunes View Post
    lots of words
    Except you're overlooking the fact that even if every single Alliance player turned on warmode, and every single Horde player turned on warmode, Alliance would still be outnumbered at least 4 to 6, which would, slowly, lead to more and more Alliance players turning off warmode, which would (and did) turn to current situation, where Horde often complains how they can't find any Alliance players out there to even finish their quests. Remember Nazjatar? Which required at least 1 kill to get rewards? There were dozens threads from Hordes who couldn't find one single Alliance anywhere in the zone to kill for the participation credit. If you think it's just because Alliance players are "unwilling" to turn on warmode, then you clearly never played Alliance. Situation was bad enough even when it was new as you say. And with time, it went from bad to just tragic or laughable.

    Quote Originally Posted by Evilfish View Post
    How dare those Hordes whine about the Alliance getting the outnumbered bonus on servers where they outnumber the Horde 2 to one at least (which is roleplay servers). Hordes can outnumber the Alliance 100 to 1 on any server and they will never see that buff. This is what I'm talking about. Anyway, warmode is a problem created by the Alliance who refuse to join in. You can't blame it on the Horde for doing what they were supposed to do - JOIN WARMODE.

    Also very good that you brought up mythic progress. Another problem that is mostly created by the community and could be solved by the community. But that's the issue, isn't it. The "core" of the Alliance does not want to solve it's own issues, they want others to do it for them. That's why Alliance warmode is shit and so is their mythic progress. Blame it on whoever you want, the fault is with the Alliance players, those who cry and complain and refuse to do anything about their situation and those who cut and run when things get difficult.
    Read above. Horde has been outnumbering Alliance for a long time, ever since Blizzard fucked up racials. Most hardcore players went Horde, and stayed there, because there's zero reasons to go back, if you're serious about hardcore raiding/m+. So no, it's not a "community created problem", it's a Blizzard created one, which then they tried to fix by more or less balancing racials, but since just balancing stuff isn't enough to revert the problem which grew up to huge proportions, the community didn't react.

    Oh, and forgot to address servers - I don't know how the situation on RP realms look, but I do know that war mode doesn't follow the usual server shards, since I play on one of the biggest Alliance realms in EU, I never see any Horde around, but the moment I turn on WM, it's nothing but Horde, and not a single Alliance in sight. So servers hardly seem to matter here, unless RP is completely walled off from the rest of the playerbase (which I guess they probably are, so sure, might be a problem for them, I will grant you that).

    Tell me, how is Alliance community supposed to "fix the problem"? Blizzard made horde racials OP. People went horde. Even though along the way Blizzard balanced the racials, everyone who went horde stayed there, and took their friends and guildies with them. The problem snowballed, and with it being harder and harder to recruit people on the Alliance side, even more people went horde.

    Honestly, I don't even know why I bother. If you haven't noticed the problem by now, that means you're simply incapable of understanding it, no matter how well someone explains it to you, no matter how many undeniable proofs are presented. If you don't see the problem with over 10 horde guilds clearing mythic raid for every single 1 Alliance guild, if you don't see the difference in number of groups available for any kind of content in group finder on Alliance/Horde, if you don't see the fact that despite warmode bonuses for Alliance being huge still barely anyone participates in it so it doesn't ever drop...But yeah, sure, have it your way, Blizzard totally didn't cause it, and they shouldn't do anything to fix it, it's all a problem with Alliance community
    Last edited by Dziubla; 2020-02-26 at 02:53 PM.
    If the future is female...get ready for apocalypse.

  5. #85
    Bloodsail Admiral Sharby's Avatar
    5+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Oct 2017
    Location
    New York City
    Posts
    1,155
    Quote Originally Posted by Dziubla View Post

    Yeah, exactly this. People act like this problem is just because Alliance players are somehow incapable of doing the same things Horde players are, and are so reluctant to even acknowledge there is an imbalance at all, let alone that Blizzard had any hand in creating it. Alliance racials are more or less superior to Horde ones and the problem still exists, so its not just a racials problem like people liked to argue.


    I hate to generalize but it really is mostly Horde players saying this stuff too. Hell I've seen people even say the imbalance is fine and argue against any type of soft-merge(crossfaction PvE) because... Red cool Blue uncool I guess?
    Honorary member of the Baine Fanclub, the only member really.

  6. #86
    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    It is not an arguable topic, the very leaders of the Alliance literally tell you they cannot afford another war.



    It was revenge for those 10 miners killed in Silithus.
    Anduin says so. And no, i will not take his word for granted since he lacks both will and strength to wage war.

  7. #87
    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    Aside from the unleashing some fire elementals on civilian targets (though I do not believe those elementals actually kill anyone, I'd have to replay the raid), they haven't really done anything shady so far. Even Moira is improving. In MoP she was the only one in the Council willing to set aside their differences and unite for the Alliance. In Legion she sacrifices a lot to help protect the world.
    you've got outliers like thaelen(or however his name is spelled) that seem to have taken more to ironforge-ish behavior, but overall you see they're very quick to resort to highly destructive measures, and very prone to vengeance.

    by far, they are the shadiest of all the alliance races currently. i personally don't have an issue with that, it's more realistic than being some moral arbiter in this world.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by omeomorfismo View Post
    they have serfdom, and treat (at least under variann) them as shit
    i guess that does count, but it's not exactly the same as the way the horde does it.

  8. #88
    You people have to get tired one day of whining about racials. Oh wait, you want OP racials so that why you are weeping. Look around, right now the Alliance has the best PVP racials, not that it helped Alliance PVP in general.

    And yeah, the Horde outnumbers the Alliance and while some of the blame may be with Blizzard, part of that blame is also attributed to whiny Alliance players who preach doom and gloom with every breath they can muster. I many not agree with switchers, but I honestly can't blame them for wanting to escape that environment.

    And yeah, pretty much every RP server seems to be dominated by that Alliance, so when you get called the RP faction, you know where it comes from. But if you are on an Alliance dominated server that means you also have the buff I'm not mistaking. The Horde does not have it, even on realms where they are outnumbered. So might want to consider that before you start the Alliance brand weeping about how bad you have it. Blizzard is aware of this situation but has done nothing to address it as far as I know.

    It's actually really odd that the Alliance, having better PVP racials, with a buff, still refuse to participate in warmode but at the same time complain about warmode. Nah, it's not odd. It's the Alliance.

    As for fixing the problem, it starts from stopping the cryfest. That's actually the first step. That way you might not spook new players or make existing players want to leave. I've seen countless people claiming Alliance raiding is dead cause they are not in the top 10 mythic guilds. That's not true. Raiding is still alive and mytich raiding represents a very small percentage of the overall raiding community. But the misinformation is dished out, hell I suspect the people who rant on about the death of Alliance raiding actually want it to die so they can be proven right. So yeah, stop lying would be the first step. The second step would be to convince the streamers who lie through their teeth about being "Alliance" but their true loyalty is to the money. If those guys would focus on Alliance raiding, I guarantee their their army of paypigs will go to the Alliance side.

    And yeah, I've noticed the problem. The problem is that you won't admit you are a very big part of that problem and would rather place the blame with Blizzard or the Horde. Neither will be able to fix your problem. And the fixes you want, namely treating Horde as 2nd class citizens won't fix your problem, it will create more problems for everyone else. But I suspect many of you want that.

  9. #89
    Elemental Lord
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    8,116
    Never speak of fun again.. this is a forbidden topic in wow.
    Quickly close/delete thread.

  10. #90
    The Lightbringer Ardenaso's Avatar
    3+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Jan 2020
    Location
    Philippines
    Posts
    3,062
    Quote Originally Posted by Evilfish View Post
    You people have to get tired one day of whining about racials. Oh wait, you want OP racials so that why you are weeping. Look around, right now the Alliance has the best PVP racials, not that it helped Alliance PVP in general.

    And yeah, the Horde outnumbers the Alliance and while some of the blame may be with Blizzard, part of that blame is also attributed to whiny Alliance players who preach doom and gloom with every breath they can muster. I many not agree with switchers, but I honestly can't blame them for wanting to escape that environment.

    And yeah, pretty much every RP server seems to be dominated by that Alliance, so when you get called the RP faction, you know where it comes from. But if you are on an Alliance dominated server that means you also have the buff I'm not mistaking. The Horde does not have it, even on realms where they are outnumbered. So might want to consider that before you start the Alliance brand weeping about how bad you have it. Blizzard is aware of this situation but has done nothing to address it as far as I know.

    It's actually really odd that the Alliance, having better PVP racials, with a buff, still refuse to participate in warmode but at the same time complain about warmode. Nah, it's not odd. It's the Alliance.

    As for fixing the problem, it starts from stopping the cryfest. That's actually the first step. That way you might not spook new players or make existing players want to leave. I've seen countless people claiming Alliance raiding is dead cause they are not in the top 10 mythic guilds. That's not true. Raiding is still alive and mytich raiding represents a very small percentage of the overall raiding community. But the misinformation is dished out, hell I suspect the people who rant on about the death of Alliance raiding actually want it to die so they can be proven right. So yeah, stop lying would be the first step. The second step would be to convince the streamers who lie through their teeth about being "Alliance" but their true loyalty is to the money. If those guys would focus on Alliance raiding, I guarantee their their army of paypigs will go to the Alliance side.

    And yeah, I've noticed the problem. The problem is that you won't admit you are a very big part of that problem and would rather place the blame with Blizzard or the Horde. Neither will be able to fix your problem. And the fixes you want, namely treating Horde as 2nd class citizens won't fix your problem, it will create more problems for everyone else. But I suspect many of you want that.
    Now let's stop the dispute between Alliance/Horde community and racials and please get back to the topic

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Alanar View Post
    Never speak of fun again.. this is a forbidden topic in wow.
    Quickly close/delete thread.
    lemme post a new high elf thread while we're at it

  11. #91
    Quote Originally Posted by Evilfish View Post
    You people have to get tired one day of whining about racials. Oh wait, you want OP racials so that why you are weeping. Look around, right now the Alliance has the best PVP racials, not that it helped Alliance PVP in general.

    And yeah, the Horde outnumbers the Alliance and while some of the blame may be with Blizzard, part of that blame is also attributed to whiny Alliance players who preach doom and gloom with every breath they can muster. I many not agree with switchers, but I honestly can't blame them for wanting to escape that environment.

    And yeah, pretty much every RP server seems to be dominated by that Alliance, so when you get called the RP faction, you know where it comes from. But if you are on an Alliance dominated server that means you also have the buff I'm not mistaking. The Horde does not have it, even on realms where they are outnumbered. So might want to consider that before you start the Alliance brand weeping about how bad you have it. Blizzard is aware of this situation but has done nothing to address it as far as I know.

    It's actually really odd that the Alliance, having better PVP racials, with a buff, still refuse to participate in warmode but at the same time complain about warmode. Nah, it's not odd. It's the Alliance.

    As for fixing the problem, it starts from stopping the cryfest. That's actually the first step. That way you might not spook new players or make existing players want to leave. I've seen countless people claiming Alliance raiding is dead cause they are not in the top 10 mythic guilds. That's not true. Raiding is still alive and mytich raiding represents a very small percentage of the overall raiding community. But the misinformation is dished out, hell I suspect the people who rant on about the death of Alliance raiding actually want it to die so they can be proven right. So yeah, stop lying would be the first step. The second step would be to convince the streamers who lie through their teeth about being "Alliance" but their true loyalty is to the money. If those guys would focus on Alliance raiding, I guarantee their their army of paypigs will go to the Alliance side.

    And yeah, I've noticed the problem. The problem is that you won't admit you are a very big part of that problem and would rather place the blame with Blizzard or the Horde. Neither will be able to fix your problem. And the fixes you want, namely treating Horde as 2nd class citizens won't fix your problem, it will create more problems for everyone else. But I suspect many of you want that.
    Do you even play the game? Horde has the bonus, no matter what server they play on - It's 10%. The same bonus Alliance had for about what, 5 months? Before they introduced scaling bonuses?

    Also, if you don't see that Blizzard, and no one else, created the INITIAL problem, which then SNOWBALLED (yes, in large part due to the community), then...yeah.

    Try Alliance character. Just try it. For a week. You will see how absolutely retarded every little thing you say is. Yes, even you, with how blind you are, will notice it. It's impossible not to notice it once you actually play Alliance for a while.

    And yes, it's very odd that Alliance, despite bonuses, doesn't play with WM on. Absolutely incomprehensible. I mean, it sure is fun being outnumbered 10 to 1, having to constantly fight for your life instead of doing whatever you wanted to do, and taking 2 hours to finish whatever you're trying to finish, while without warmode the same thing takes you 20 minutes, at most.

    And if you really think people leave/dont play Alliance because of the "crying", then you're even dumber than I initially thought. Either you're a new player, who doesn't remember all the racials drama and exodus of Alliance players towards Horde, or you're just so biased that you're incapable of understanding the most basic things. And if that's the case...then I'm wasting my time.

    Infracted.
    Last edited by Aucald; 2020-02-26 at 04:32 PM. Reason: Received Infraction
    If the future is female...get ready for apocalypse.

  12. #92
    Quote Originally Posted by Dziubla View Post
    Except you're overlooking the fact that even if every single Alliance player turned on warmode, and every single Horde player turned on warmode, Alliance would still be outnumbered at least 4 to 6, which would, slowly, lead to more and more Alliance players turning off warmode, which would (and did) turn to current situation, where Horde often complains how they can't find any Alliance players out there to even finish their quests. Remember Nazjatar? Which required at least 1 kill to get rewards? There were dozens threads from Hordes who couldn't find one single Alliance anywhere in the zone to kill for the participation credit. If you think it's just because Alliance players are "unwilling" to turn on warmode, then you clearly never played Alliance. Situation was bad enough even when it was new as you say. And with time, it went from bad to just tragic or laughable.
    Not only is the faction imbalance this big, but you're only pointing out how it's an issue created by Alliance players. Even 4:6 imbalance wouldn't be all that bad and would make pvping more hassle than it's worth for Horde players. But by dropping out of the mode altogether they made the experience for the Alliance hardliners that decided to stick to it rather terrible.


    Quote Originally Posted by Dziubla View Post
    Read above. Horde has been outnumbering Alliance for a long time, ever since Blizzard fucked up racials. Most hardcore players went Horde, and stayed there, because there's zero reasons to go back, if you're serious about hardcore raiding/m+. So no, it's not a "community created problem", it's a Blizzard created one, which then they tried to fix by more or less balancing racials, but since just balancing stuff isn't enough to revert the problem which grew up to huge proportions, the community didn't react.
    Weirdly enough Alliance players were completely silent when it was the Alliance racials that were OP, particularly in PvP where humans alone outnumbered all other races combined on top level of organized PvP. Which lasted multiple expansions. You were saying something about hypocrisy, if I recall?

    And the rest of your post has nothing to do with your original claim how Horde players are worse than Alliance ones because you're talking about Alliance players jumping on a bandwagon because of Blizzard's balancing. Horde players don't exactly factor there one iota.


    Quote Originally Posted by Sharby View Post
    Yeah, exactly this. People act like this problem is just because Alliance players are somehow incapable of doing the same things Horde players are, and are so reluctant to even acknowledge there is an imbalance at all, let alone that Blizzard had any hand in creating it. Alliance racials are more or less superior to Horde ones and the problem still exists, so its not just a racials problem like people liked to argue.

    I hate to generalize but it really is mostly Horde players saying this stuff too. Hell I've seen people even say the imbalance is fine and argue against any type of soft-merge(crossfaction PvE) because... Red cool Blue uncool I guess?
    Except that entire shtick about Blizzard's oppression via racial imbalance as the Alliance players' argument.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kangodo View Post
    Does the CIA pay you for your bullshit or are you just bootlicking in your free time?
    Quote Originally Posted by Mirishka View Post
    I'm quite tired of people who dislike something/disagree with something while attacking/insulting anyone that disagrees. Its as if at some point, people forgot how opinions work.

  13. #93
    Yeah I play the game and if you payed attention I'm talking about the outnumbered buff, not the baseline buff everyone who turns on warmode gets. You go on about it being a free buff for the Horde, it's free for everyone willing to participate in Warmode, which excludes a lot of the Alliance who are just unwilling.

    It snowballed? Really? It didn't snowball when the racials were more or less equal or in the favor of the Alliance. When the Human racial was at the top of the ladders, Horde pvp survived and nothing snowballed. Sure the top players were running mostly human teams but didn't kill Horde PVP. So allow me to cast a doubt on your snowballing theory. Because if the same people play the game, then why the difference? But you know what, I do believe the snowball effect is real and it can be applied to the Alliance. Just not the way you want to.

    You assume I'm not playing an Alliance character, the truth is that's all I've been playing for months now. The only problem I see is a lot of whining on servers with healthy alliance numbers. The problem I notice is that way too few Alliance are willing to pucker their asses and turn on warmode. Like I said, there's a problem but one created by the Alliance.

    And yes, very odd that the Alliance despite getting welfare items and buffs, they still refuse to participate in Warmode. Why? The Horde does not get any additional incentives for their contribution to Warmode but here they are. Including on shards where they are outnumbered. I play both factions on one of those shards and let me tell you, you can always find some Horde. So what's wrong? And here comes that snowballing effect you mentioned. You people bitched on about Warmode-Hordemode so much that even with the numbers, even with incentives, the Alliance won't turn on Warmode. Because someone told them no matter what they do, they will end up the losers, which is not true. The people on each side are the same. Logging on to a Horde character won't make you automatically more organized or disorganized if you choose Alliance. The only sabotage to the Alliance comes from people like you.

    No, you just really want to cry about faction bias. You are the problem on the Alliance side and the damage you people have done to the Alliance is considerable. And the only way to get some healing is for people on the Alliance to stop listening to people like you and call you out whenever you decide to start spreading your lies.

  14. #94
    Moderator Aucald's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Epic Premium
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Philadelphia, PA-US
    Posts
    45,573
    This thread didn't start out on a great footing, and seems to have derailed into a gameplay-based argument instead of a lore one. Closing this.
    "We're more of the love, blood, and rhetoric school. Well, we can do you blood and love without the rhetoric, and we can do you blood and rhetoric without the love, and we can do you all three concurrent or consecutive. But we can't give you love and rhetoric without the blood. Blood is compulsory. They're all blood, you see." ― Tom Stoppard, Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are Dead

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •