You can get Banned for Ninja Looting in Classic

[arkanon]

They decided that it shouldn't go to a rogue shooting his bow and who did barely anything, so it goes to the 2nd highest roll but like I said, 2 rogues were tied for 2nd with a 58 roll. So both of them rerolled and Payo won. How hard is it to understand ?

This was not part of the loot rules - how hard is that to understand?

[Vitalremains]

This was not part of the loot rules - how hard is that to understand?

Alright so you're going to make a BWL pug, i'm going to join you on my resto shaman. I'm not gonna heal anyone, not gonna drop totems but i'm going to un-equip my weapon and randomly punch the boss. And then i'm going to expect you to give me the BiS item that just dropped from the boss even tho I didn't do anything. You're gonna be fine with that ? Because rules are rules ? Anyone with a brain would kick me out of the raid and not let me get anything. If that's not something you can even understand, well clearly you lack common sense.

Last week on retail in LFR, we wiped twice on a boss. Turns out, our 5th healer was an undergeared balance druid. He was Q'd as a healer but didn't heal. Guess what ? The guy got kicked out. Shocking isn't it ? He shouldn't be able to stay in the raid and get rewarded with loots while not doing his job and contributing to making us wipe.

[arkanon]

Alright so you're going to make a BWL pug, i'm going to join you on my resto shaman. I'm not gonna heal anyone, not gonna drop totems but i'm going to un-equip my weapon and randomly punch the boss. And then i'm going to expect you to give me the BiS item that just dropped from the boss even tho I didn't do anything. You're gonna be fine with that ? Because rules are rules ? Anyone with a brain would kick me out of the raid and not let me get anything. If that's not something you can even understand, well clearly you lack common sense.

Last week on retail in LFR, we wiped twice on a boss. Turns out, our 5th healer was an undergeared balance druid. He was Q'd as a healer but didn't heal. Guess what ? The guy got kicked out. Shocking isn't it ? He shouldn't be able to stay in the raid and get rewarded with loots while not doing his job and contributing to making us wipe.

What about the warrior who dies 10 seconds in? No loot for him either? What about the hunter whos bow breaks mid fight? No loot for him? What about the rogue with no poisons on? What about the guy who came 11th on dps, and not top 10? What about the tank who taunted the wrong target? Or the healer who oomed too quickly?

Sounds to me like you need people to join your raid to make up numbers, but want to play god with who does and does not get loot because of how you feel. I notice you entirely dodged the questions raised, but i would argue anyone with common sense would avoid being banned from the game over some pixels.

You also conveniently prove my point, and the point raised by many others, that as a RL, it is your responsibility to ensure that the people you invite to your raid are suitable for the content, and if you see someone having issues with performance, take action. I would also argue that, without a shadow of a doubt, your 5th healer was NOT your issue if you are wiping, and i am amused that you stop yourself short of saying they CAUSED the wipe, but rather "contributed". Sounds to me like you wiped a couple of times, and desperately went looking for someone to blame.

I am confident you will try to reply with "but we killed it next attempt", which is a classic case of confusing correlation with causation. No boss on LFR requires 5 healers, and generally its 1-2 healers doing the bulk of the work, with a couple straggling behind, and one who is no doubt the wrong spec / afk / dead - LFR is balanced around this, as is Classic. If the healing requirements were so high you needed 5 dedicated healers, either the top 4 were absolute garbage as well, or, dps were constantly failing at simple mechanics.

[Big Thanks]

This was not part of the loot rules - how hard is that to understand?

Is there confirmation on this (on Payo's case)? I couldnt see the in-game chat in the vods.

But, anyway, i agree a person who died on the first second of a fight SHOULD receive loot.

I'm just not sure...in the case of being completely AFK
Hum...thats a hard one for me.
Should a complete AFK person for the current fight receive the item?
And what would happen if the raid leader decided a AFK SHOULDNT receive loot?

Is this person going to get banned by Blizzard? Its debatable, but i think is fair to not receive loot when afk.

[arkanon]

Is this person going to get banned by Blizzard? Its debatable, but i think is fair to not receive loot when afk.

Wait, you think an afk person should be banned? I might be misunderstanding you.

[Big Thanks]

Wait, you think an afk person should be banned? I might be misunderstanding you.

If the raid leader decides to not give loot to a 100% AFK person for the CURRENT fight.
Lets say...he had to go to the bathroom take a crap.

Will the raid leader get banned for deciding not to give him loot?

The person who took a crap is back after the boss was killed and decided to roll.

[Locruid]

Since it's classic should perma ban....no changes, remember?

[Daymanmb]

Show me where I said that it did.

So what point are you trying to make? Who cares if hes sub? The sky is blue.

[Coffer]

They decided that it shouldn't go to a rogue shooting his bow and who did barely anything

This is exactly what got him banned. Regardlesss of what the rogue did or didn't do, he joined on the premise of the previous rules. Once the raid got going, Payo was no longer allowed to change the rules. It's as simple as that. The rogue should've been kicked much sooner.

Raid leading is hard work. Being reactive is not enough - you need to be proactive as well. He wasn't, so he opened himself up to this mess, and he handled said mess in the worst way possible. You either play by Blizzard's rules or you don't play at all. There's no room for arguments involving unfairness here.

[8bithamster]

except he was baited by another streamer (who is now banned in turn on twitch lmao karma) to loot it to himself so that said scumbag could report him and get him banned

Suuuure! "I didn't speed officer! That other driver told me to do it! So I'm innocent"

[callipygoustp]

If you have to try to redefine a well defined term to support your point.... well, then your point isn't worth shit.

[DookuDookuTree]

No. i ninjaed in 2005 unt Blizztart has said many times "its up to the players to sort things out" (douches) mean little kids can't sort things out they are going to be pigs. if you canät police your own game & there is anarchy people will leave. yes beliver it or not wow has more quitters than players. you can't foster comradery by saying go fuck yourself.

[Necromantic]

So what point are you trying to make? Who cares if hes sub? The sky is blue.

Nobody cares. It's hypocrites trying to rationalize for him not deserving loot because they want to fit into the conversation somehow.

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you can't foster comradery by saying go fuck yourself.

Best quote in the thread.

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This is exactly what got him banned. Regardlesss of what the rogue did or didn't do, he joined on the premise of the previous rules. Once the raid got going, Payo was no longer allowed to change the rules. It's as simple as that. The rogue should've been kicked much sooner.

Raid leading is hard work. Being reactive is not enough - you need to be proactive as well. He wasn't, so he opened himself up to this mess, and he handled said mess in the worst way possible. You either play by Blizzard's rules or you don't play at all. There's no room for arguments involving unfairness here.

And very correct. Payo deserved to be banned because he moved the goalposts.

[Denizly]

Surprised this got to 16 pages 0.o

As other have said, ban was deserved. He scammed another player cuz he didn't like his dps.

[jackofwind]

So what point are you trying to make? Who cares if hes sub? The sky is blue.

I was replying directly to someone else in the thread, you obviously inserted yourself into that part of the conversation without reading all of it. It's all there if you care to go back and read it, but I'm not interested in reiterating it for you.

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Nobody cares. It's hypocrites trying to rationalize for him not deserving loot because they want to fit into the conversation somehow.

I'm curious as to your raiding habits, do you mind sharing?

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Except that you would be wrong.

Everything you have just said about who loot is designed for you can get a 80% agreement with on the street. Almost anyone would agree. It makes sense that a hunter shouldnt get the strength 2h. Why would a healer need spell hit?

But that rant is missing the point entirely. In a situation where it is free roll, and it's been stated as free roll, anyone who wins the roll should get the loot. That's what free roll means. I've even done this in my classic guild. Noone wanted for ms (dkp bid). Then noone wanted for os (dkp bid). Then noone wanted for PvP . (dkp bid). Then it was free roll. As a hunter I won the roll for a 2h mace. The ML was "no, you can't use". The RL said "you're dumb enough to open it to a free roll, give it to the damn hunter." I said "lol, give it to the paladin. She can have it for free.". Because it was a free roll, I was entitled to that piece of loot no matter if I could use it or not.

I've also never encountered your version of "free roll", there's always been an understanding that the item must be usable for the classes rolling. Maybe not BiS, but at least usable. I'm not saying it doesn't happen, but I've definitely never seen it. I don't think that someone would be banned by Blizz for not giving a 2h mace to a Hunter even under "free roll" raid loot rules.

OT: No one has shown that the loot rules were stated as entirely free roll in raid chat. All we know if that over voice comms they were defined as "partial LC", which Blizzard doesn't take into account due to it not being in an in-game chat channel.

This entire thread is one big ball of assumptions and bad faith arguing. Just another day in the fetid cesspool that is MMOC.

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This was not part of the loot rules - how hard is that to understand?

Show me the loot rules as they were stated in the raid chat.

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Out of interest, you are suggesting that the reason the loot didnt go to the rogue is because they decided to use loot council instead. However, after deciding not to give the item to the rogue, they re-rolled for the item? Why were they rolling a second time if that item was being decided by loot council?

There are plenty of times that Loot Council makes a judgement call on who can roll for items, that's an inherent part of the loot system.

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Surprised this got to 16 pages 0.o

As other have said, ban was deserved. He scammed another player cuz he didn't like his dps.

We're mostly just interested in arguing with each other at this point - his ban is nearly done anyways, it was just 72h and only on one of his 4 accounts. In the grand scheme of things it was a meaningless gesture.

[Necromantic]

I'm curious as to your raiding habits, do you mind sharing?

Not at all. Kick my feet up, small glass of aged scotch and I'm good to go.

[Daymanmb]

Show me the loot rules as they were stated in the raid chat.

Consider for a moment that Blizzard is privy to more information than we are. I think at this point, based on the fact that he was suspended for scamming, the onus is on you to prove he didnt scam.

[jackofwind]

Consider for a moment that Blizzard is privy to more information than we are. I think at this point, based on the fact that he was suspended for scamming, the onus is on you to prove he didnt scam.

Consider as well that Blizzard has been proven in the past two months to have wrongfully banned at least one high profile person.

I truly don't care about the streamer getting banned, it's almost over for the guy anyways and it didn't stop him from playing the game since he has four accounts. It's not even really enough to stop him from doing it over and over if he just keeps getting 3 day bans - he can do it every raid lockout and be ready to go for the next week. It's a nothingburger ban.

[Big Thanks]

LoL i laughed a little bit when Payo thought today he would still have the belt he took.
Ofcourse after paying attention in this thread i knew Blizzard would remove it.
He put on a very loud epic music..."lets see if we still have the belt..."

What an epic fail

[Daymanmb]

Consider as well that Blizzard has been proven in the past two months to have wrongfully banned at least one high profile person.

Right, that was because of the automated report system. This isnt that.