Mega-Thread: Democratic 2020 Primaries

[Omega10]

Except gay marriage and M4A aren't even almost comparable in terms of how they would be implemented.

All it took for gay marriage to be legal was a shift in opinion on the Supreme Court to say "this state law that bans gay marriage is unconstitutional", that's it, it instantly became legal everywhere after that. Congress wasn't involved even slightly.

M4A requires 60 votes in the Senate and Sanders won't even have a majority of votes backing it.

M4A may take a while. The path for gay marriage took around 2 decades. If we can get M4A in 1 I will be happy

[Omega10]

Also gay marriage didnt effect anyones pockets and it wasnt made federally legal just that states couldnt ban it. I find that far from a win. All they did was throw you a bone to shut you up basically.

So for me legal gay marriage was a win, for you it was not a loss.

Works for me

[starlord]

Then fight hard to show how Biden will make it happen rather than tearing Sanders down. Warren took down Bloomberg, and the big winner is Biden.

Say good things about Biden. Get quotes from him pushing his own way forward. The race seems to be Sanders vs Biden. Support Biden by saying good things about him rather than tearing down Bernie.

who said anything about biden? he has not promised M4A.

[Omega10]

who said anything about biden? he has not promised M4A.

Here are the current protections from 538 about next weekend's primaries:

Sanders.587
Biden 305
Bloomberg 211
Warren 132
Pete 70
Amy 38

The set of all realistic democratic nominees is Sanders, Biden, Bloomberg.

Pushing hard against Sanders boosts Biden and Bloomberg. And right now Biden is rising in SC, and will be primed for a good Super Tuesday showing. He is likely to take quite a few votes away from Bloomberg between now and then as well.

- - - Updated - - -

The problem is the calls for some Universal Health Care has been happening in this country since Roosevelt, and I mean Teddy.

Maybe it will never happen. Not going to stop trying just because we might fail.

[starlord]

In point of fact, we can get quite a lot done (not to mention prevented) with a slim majority, just like the Republicans are literally doing right now, speaking of not knowing how the process works.

a lot done such as what? one hallmark of trump's presidency has been a lack of big achievements. the most notable being... tax cuts, which are always popular.

[Levelfive]

a lot done such as what? one hallmark of trump's presidency has been a lack of big achievements. the most notable being... tax cuts, which are always popular.

They're appointing conservative judges left and right, for one thing. If Trump wins, they'd be a block. If a Democrat wins, yes, they would most assuredly be able to pass major legislation.

[Endus]

You realize "The party should just step in line and not compromise" is how Trump and authoritarians in general work?

Here's the thing with compromise.

It only works if both parties are on board.

If a compromise like the ACA is offered and does not get strong bipartisan support, then the party refusing to vote for it is the party unwilling to compromise, not the party who pushed it through. What that reaction says is that they shouldn't have even offered the compromise; they weren't going to garner their opponents' support regardless.

Both sides need to come to the table for compromise to be an option. Without that, you're not talking compromise, you're talking subjugation to the enemy. Capitulation.

[Grapemask]

If nothing else, this thread has taught me that politics is a cancer that infects the mind of just about everyone. People have lost their damn minds. Everyone is seemingly the enemy and people will rapidly change their positions to better match a defense they need. Sad how reading through reminds me of a general conversation with people for and against Trump.

The fact campaign season lasts so long, just so candidates can line their pockets and provide entertainment while the country lets political fatigue further infect them is just the icing on the cake.

It is practically a buzzword these days, but the US literally needs this fabled "unity." Get yourselves a candidate that will offend the fewest people and run with them. Get rid of the festering pustule on America's ass that is Trump, fix some shit and then move the country forward.

These threads have disillusioned me, maybe for different reasons.

I think there was a general idea that we all agreed on the things that made Trump a shitlord - we being the not-Trumpsters, anyway. And there often appears to be a general consensus on values, when users berate the Trump administration kicking people off food stamps, kicking people off insurance, dismantling the ACA, reducing health standards, reducing safety standards, limiting wage growth, and generally shitting on the weakest and least capable.

But then you see the way they defend Bloomberg and the hand-waving of the things he's done. Do we actually agree on values? I think some people here would be wearing MAGA hats if Trump ran with a D next to his name.

You see the ones who could power suns with their rage for what Trump's done to minorities or how he's cut safety nets for the poor, but suddenly when it's election time, they're screaming in rage at the same groups for not endorsing candidates who aren't pushing for much better than Trump's. They seem personally offended that these groups are pushing for a candidate that directly addresses their concerns instead of candidates that barely acknowledge them.

These people are mostly the same folks I've learned over the last few years are lawyers, tenured employees, software engineers during the dot coms - the upper class that wouldn't be affected even if Trump went Kim Jong Un on this country. I don't think politics are about values to these people. It's just a game of football and their team needs to win. And here I was hating Trump for real reasons when I should've just been hating him for wearing red.

[Milchshake]

You've been shit posting in this thread for weeks, and now you play the victim? Ha ha

Not at all. Bernie has made unrealistic claims to ideological purity and consistency.

I'm merely showing the gaps in his own claims. With a nice dressing of snark and hyperbole.

I'm the socialist saying the emperor has no clothes on.


For my trouble i'm getting dog-piled and harangued. I bet this might be how Betsy Londrigan felt last night.

[draynay]

For my trouble i'm getting dog-piled and harangued.

"I'm not playing the victim" - followed by immediately playing the victim. We already have zenkai, find your own thing.

[JohnBrown1917]

Not at all. Bernie has made unrealistic claims to ideological purity and consistency.

I'm merely showing the gaps in his own claims. With a nice dressing of snark and hyperbole.

I'm the socialist saying the emperor has no clothes on.


For my trouble i'm getting dog-piled and harangued. I bet this might be how Betsy Londrigan felt last night.

>Socalist
>Supports Pelosi.

Hah.

[starlord]

Here are the current protections from 538 about next weekend's primaries:

Sanders.587
Biden 305
Bloomberg 211
Warren 132
Pete 70
Amy 38

The set of all realistic democratic nominees is Sanders, Biden, Bloomberg.

Pushing hard against Sanders boosts Biden and Bloomberg. And right now Biden is rising in SC, and will be primed for a good Super Tuesday showing. He is likely to take quite a few votes away from Bloomberg between now and then as well.

- - - Updated - - -

Maybe it will never happen. Not going to stop trying just because we might fail.

i don't think you have to worry about that, this forum is nearly a bernie circlejerk.
he's also not the only candidate promising medicare expansion.
that aside, if he refuses to negotiate on any kind of healthcare expansion besides M4A, as he has implied, that seems really counterproductive to me.

[Omega10]

Agreed, I just hope people realize that we gotta do more than elect a president that will sign it into law. We are going to have pressure both GOP, and DEM candidates. Which means we have to convince the bulk of the Washington D.C. establishment who seem to enjoy using the subject as a political football. The only way that happens is to make them think they're jobs are on the line.

Agreed. That won't be easy due to how much money is made with the current system. For me, I will fight as hard as I can, as long as I can

And who know maybe one day I will get a 1 day celebration!!!

[Drutt]

Rising: "Pelosi signals comfort with Sanders nomination".

[Martymark]

I'm a bit worried about Sanders viability with him vocally defending totalitarian regimes increasing literacy.

There's the old joke about "At least Hitler made the trains run on time", but Sanders isn't joking...

[Milchshake]

"I'm not playing the victim" - followed by immediately playing the victim. We already have zenkai, find your own thing.

Thanks for proving my point.


Anyways.

Anyone remember this time one year ago?

All the announced candidates from one major party were running on some form of Single Payer or Public Option. It was a watershed moment in US politics.

Then one guy had to heighten the contradictions. His policy had to be the one true healthcare policy. And has been driving this wedge issue the whole way.

Thats why this debate fracture and turned into what it is now.

He kneecapped all those other candidates and cleared the way for a Biden or Bloomberg.

Some of those other candidates were pretty awesome. They also had strong commitments for voter's rights. Three had a Federal Jobs Guarantee in their platforms. One even had an idea for a Public Bank run through the post office.

[JohnBrown1917]

I'm a bit worried about Sanders viability with him vocally defending totalitarian regimes increasing literacy.

There's the old joke about "At least Hitler made the trains run on time", but Sanders isn't joking...

Just repeating what Obama said.


But yeah, I can understand why Americans don't like revolutions that overthrow the brutal dictatorships they backed. But hey, the US still gets to run a torture camp on Cuba, so its not all bad!

[Levelfive]

I'm a bit worried about Sanders viability with him vocally defending totalitarian regimes increasing literacy.

There's the old joke about "At least Hitler made the trains run on time", but Sanders isn't joking...

? If that's their objection, not sure who they'd vote for then, since Trump fellates autocrats all the time. Also, the old joke was about Mussolini, but whatever.

[PACOX]

Pelosi gave the green light - Moderates, it's, safe for you all to jump aboard the boat.

[starlord]

Pelosi gave the green light - Moderates, it's, safe for you all to jump aboard the boat.

wait do you mean to tell me that corrupt corporate shill dnc isn't out to get bernie?