WoW is a good game to play for a limited time but not it's not a good MMO.

[Evaddon]

To me, it seems a lot of people forgot what an MMO is/was with the introduction of so many systems in other MMO's the true quality and content of an MMO has been saturated and forgotten leaving it deprived of what the genre truly was...same thing has been happening to RPG's over the last couple of years, its no longer designed with the niche community of players in mind anymore

[huddling]

Your reading comprehension is ass. Really sad.

Opinions are great. Opinions masquerading as facts, not so much.

That is what we call an opinion. Not sure why you felt the need to post your opinion here.

................

[Trend]

................

So that's shitting on him in your book? Asking him what he's trying to accomplish is out of bounds? Is your skin like one micron thick and you can't handle any kind of interaction where one person questions what another person is saying?

If you look at what I quoted, it is an opinion put forth as a fact. You can try to argue against that but you would be wrong. You don't need to be all grade-school emotional here. You come across as someone who uses a throwaway account to attack anyone who questions Blizzard bashing to any extent.

edit: And yes, your reading comprehension is total ass. You've yet to deal with any actual ideas involved in the exchange.

[huddling]

So that's shitting on him in your book? Asking him what he's trying to accomplish is out of bounds? Is your skin like one micron thick and you can't handle any kind of interaction where one person questions what another person is saying?

I did not post this thread, I agree with its general idea but for different reasons. I just find you viscerally annoying.

If you look at what I quoted, it is an opinion put forth as a fact.

You keep trying to move these goal posts, and yet they won't budge.

edit: And yes, your reading comprehension is total ass. You've yet to deal with any actual ideas involved in the exchange.

Ah yes, let's hear a lesson on actually discussing the topic from the fanboy who scrambled into the thread to question its very existence in the very first reply.

[Liftinmammals]

That is what we call an opinion. Not sure why you felt the need to post your opinion here. If people aren't enjoying the game they unsubscribe. If they do enjoy the game it means their opinion is different than yours. What are you trying to accomplish?

This is a forum. As such my dude people will and can post what they just want to talk about. I would wager 95% of what is posted here is just people talking for the sake of the enjoyment of spreading opinions. That's how life works. We talk and we engage. If no one said what was on their mind how would anyone in this world be able to relay anything? Don't be *that* guy. Stay strong, son. Make people's lives better. Not worse.

[Kallisto]

That's how most current mmo-rpgs work tho. Hell, if I'm not mistaken the FFXIV director even encourages players to play the patch content and then unsub or something along those lines.

Here are the images where he's saying exactly that







When people at blizzard basically said the same thing the forums became as Taliesin called it a shit show. But on FFXIV areas this idea was taken at heart as a good idea.

[matrix123mko]

To be fair, times do change, and perhaps the time for subscribing to a particular game is ending. Lots of people now subscribe to platforms and the access to a host of games across said platform.

I think this is the most old-fashioned aspect of WoW that needs to go.

[Trend]

IYou keep trying to move these goal posts, and yet they won't budge.

And what are those goal posts? You make a comment about how I "explicitly shat on the op" and I recount what the actual exchange was, but that is moving the goal posts in your mind? Do you even know what that term means? Are you so unable to grapple with ideas that you want to do little boy drive-by zingers without any discussion in regards to whether or not your claims withstand scrutiny?

Ah yes, let's hear a lesson on actually discussing the topic from the fanboy who scrambled into the thread to question its very existence in the very first reply.

And this is exactly what I was talking about before. There are any number of kids on these forums who will immediately shout down any questioning of Blizzard bashing, no matter how ill conceived, with cries of "fanboy". It's just really pathetic. I think there are a lot of problems with the game and I totally get why some past players either play occasionally or not at all. Part of that is inevitable, I believe, due to the age of the game and the nature of entertainment but part of it is due directly to missteps by Blizzard. I disagree with a lot of the decisions made for BfA in particular, but that doesn't make all criticisms valid and it does not make opinions facts.

Lastly, it does not bother me in the slightest that I irritate you so much. I do not respect you and I find you shallow and intellectually dishonest. I would frankly be bothered if someone like yourself didn't have a problem with me.

This is a forum. As such my dude people will and can post what they just want to talk about. I would wager 95% of what is posted here is just people talking for the sake of the enjoyment of spreading opinions. That's how life works. We talk and we engage. If no one said what was on their mind how would anyone in this world be able to relay anything? Don't be *that* guy. Stay strong, son. Make people's lives better. Not worse.

Feel free to chip in constructively then. I asked a genuine question and with all the responses nobody has yet answered it. It seemed though the OP was trying to convince people not to stay subscribed because of the opinion stated as fact that it is essentially a boring and tedious game with no reason to stay subscribed. Threads are supposed to lead to some kind of discussion (not my rules, but the rules of MMO-C) and if it is not clear what is trying to be accomplished that is pretty hard to do. If there isn't meant to be discussion then it's just a blog post. Generally speaking, a question is a good way to get the the core, but people have to be willing to answer the question for it to work.

[huddling]

And what are those goal posts? You make a comment about how I "explicitly shat on the op" and I recount what the actual exchange was, but that is moving the goal posts in your mind? Do you even know what that term means? Are you so unable to grapple with ideas that you want to do little boy drive-by zingers without any discussion in regards to whether or not your claims withstand scrutiny?

You shat on the op explicitly because what he posted was an opinion. You weren't interested in discussing, and you questioned the validity of even posting the thread. You didn't come here trying to have a discussion, you came in trying to shut down the discussion. Then you tried to move the goal posts to "opinions are fine but I don't like the way it was written". I can't tell whether you are being an idiot or willfully obtuse, but it is no big deal as I despise both equally.

There are any number of kids on these forums who will immediately shout down any questioning of Blizzard bashing, no matter how ill conceived, with cries of "fanboy".

I call people fanboys when they are being overly defensive of a product that they are paying for, like someone who immediately jumps into a thread criticizing wow asking why the thread was even posted. Either accept what you are, or stop being it.
I don't call people kids, though. Some kids are really smart, and some adults are really stupid. The only "sins" of kids is to be young and inexperienced, so if you use "kid" derogatorily it says more about your own insecurities than about anything else.

Lastly, it does not bother me in the slightest that I irritate you so much.

Don't flatter yourself, you don't irritate me, you merely annoy me. You are a typical vacuous video game nerd trying to appear intelligent by vainly attempting to obfuscate your simplistic ideas with long winded sentences and big words. I can match that tone if you think there's a pissing contest to be had there, but all it does is making you sound like an insufferable dork.

According to your post history, you are one of the few people who find enjoyment in wow, apparently by attaining (or claiming) expertise in the extremely dull pve game mechanics. Good for you, but you have to understand that you may not be part of a majority here, and quite frankly no one care if you do enjoy it. (An interesting question: why do you care so much if people won't like your game of choice?) If you want to talk with like minded people, you may have more chance on the official forum. After all, it's filled with people who are rationalizing their decision to keep paying for this game.

[Masser]

WoW has become one of the worst MMOs. Elder Scrolls Online is FAR better.

[frankynowell]

true and true

[The Butt Witch]

Although I played all expansions, the last time I actually enjoyed the game was back in WoD.
Yeah, yeah, "WoD! Boooooo!", but the matter of fact is that my hunter was fun back then.

Legion and BFA I just played due to inertia and really having nothing else to play in the long run.

I'll probably buy SL and will probably also play it because I will have nothing else to play in the long haul.

WoW is pretty much dead to me, and I doubt these talentless hacks can make a great WoW again.

[Azerox]

I play this game since vanilla and never quited longer then 3-4 months.
It is the best game i have ever played and probably ever will.
Ofcourse it has it flaws, but damn, 15 years and running and keeping me interested. Its amazing.
Still like to play several hours per day and won't see me changing that anytime soon.

[valis]

Great fun can be had in WoW, that is very true.

For a beginner, there's very many features that could be interesting for quite a few hours. Sure, the leveling process and quests are basic "gather 10 boar asses", but other than that it has many interesting things to do: bgs, arena, world pvp, dungeons etc...

And even for a veteran, popping in once or twice per expansion for 1 month can be fun. Mostly ignore the end-game systems and simply engage with them casually, see what's new, give this and that a try.

But it's not good at what it pretends to be. WoW is designed (and Blizzard obviously encourages players to) to be played for many months in a row. And the content the game has along with the boring tedious, monotonous systems that govern the end-game simply aren't worth playing for that long, after the initial "glow" of novelty has faded.

This highlights why people are so negative about the game. Why so many times people have to be told "if you hate the game so much just quit it already". It's a good game, it really is, but since most of the systems try to manipulate the player into staying subscribed for more months, the attitude of playing for just 1 month to see what's new is quite rare.

If this attitude were more common, the community wouldn't seem as negative, but then Blizzard would lose a lot of money so that's why we have the negativity that we see now.

WOW in my experience is a game for it's playerbase only (Current and returning players). I tried to get a friend how never played WOW into joining. It was "eye oppening" for me. Even before we began playing, the character creation is not only outdated as it can get, "youre kidding, that's the fast mode", the race selection is well: "Okay, those allied races look the best, why can't i play one?" Well i tried to explain that you have to unlock them during play, which can take a while, because they are a kind of a reward, it wasn't convincing... (Even to myself). Then factions concept "So if i don't choose a horde race, i can't play with you, cause those faction hate each other?" Right, the core conflict dividing the factions! I thought it was a cool thing, but after another discussion, we realised (Well me) that it only divides the player base. Because storywise we end fighting the same bad in the end together (No Raids for one faction only) and in battlegrounds you can go mercenary! but not raids (Why no mercenary mode in pve?)
Well finally starting from level 1 (as you should do in nearly every other game) we started in cataclysm (so in the past of the story...) which has a lot of "kill x of that" "gather y of that" without a glimpse of a story. Combat was boring and not engaging, mainly because you can auto attack mobs to death and you gain skills at a tremendous slow pace (well those few abilities and passives are spread over 100 levels). Promises of an exciting endgame were really fas dismissed after the first round of dungeons, you can't just imagine that from what is presented in low levels. So we never reached level 30, and i also think am done with WOW after that. We played some other games after that, and they are just more engaging (i really think tab targeting is outdated after some more action oriented gameplay) than WOW, when i tried to go back for a while i couldn't find the fun anymore.

TLDR: WOW is a terrible experience for new players.

[Tident]

I found that over the years wow started to cater more and more towards players who can barely play the game...

Now this has little effect at the top end beyond adding additional screening to new recruits but anyone who is a beginner or just not that good at the game is now trapped in a game were failure is nearly impossible and you may as well be grouping with bots.

[Elias01]

It's not limited... the raid tiers last 6 months, which is more than enough to keep people playing for that duration until the new one.

Now, if you don't raid in a game where raiding has been the end game since day 1, that's something else..

Raids do not last 6 months. They last till 4 lfr wing is open.

[Depakote]

It used to be, not so much anymore.

[DechCJC]

I would agree with this. WoW always feels refreshing and enjoyable to me for a period of time after a prolonged break, after a month or two of playing I just can't keep interested though.

[Elias01]

WOW in my experience is a game for it's playerbase only (Current and returning players). I tried to get a friend how never played WOW into joining. It was "eye oppening" for me. Even before we began playing, the character creation is not only outdated as it can get, "youre kidding, that's the fast mode", the race selection is well: "Okay, those allied races look the best, why can't i play one?" Well i tried to explain that you have to unlock them during play, which can take a while, because they are a kind of a reward, it wasn't convincing... (Even to myself). Then factions concept "So if i don't choose a horde race, i can't play with you, cause those faction hate each other?" Right, the core conflict dividing the factions! I thought it was a cool thing, but after another discussion, we realised (Well me) that it only divides the player base. Because storywise we end fighting the same bad in the end together (No Raids for one faction only) and in battlegrounds you can go mercenary! but not raids (Why no mercenary mode in pve?)
Well finally starting from level 1 (as you should do in nearly every other game) we started in cataclysm (so in the past of the story...) which has a lot of "kill x of that" "gather y of that" without a glimpse of a story. Combat was boring and not engaging, mainly because you can auto attack mobs to death and you gain skills at a tremendous slow pace (well those few abilities and passives are spread over 100 levels). Promises of an exciting endgame were really fas dismissed after the first round of dungeons, you can't just imagine that from what is presented in low levels. So we never reached level 30, and i also think am done with WOW after that. We played some other games after that, and they are just more engaging (i really think tab targeting is outdated after some more action oriented gameplay) than WOW, when i tried to go back for a while i couldn't find the fun anymore.

TLDR: WOW is a terrible experience for new players.

Tab targeting isnt outdated. Its just different type of combat and offers different type of possible way to play tank. For example you cant have holy trinity tank/dps/heal in action based game. Also bosses has to be super dumb down so any class regarldess of what you play can beat it and since there cant be need for tanks and heals you cant really afford to make mechanicly complex fights.

[valis]

Tab targeting isnt outdated. Its just different type of combat and offers different type of possible way to play tank. For example you cant have holy trinity tank/dps/heal in action based game. Also bosses has to be super dumb down so any class regarldess of what you play can beat it and since there cant be need for tanks and heals you cant really afford to make mechanicly complex fights.

Agreed that it's different, but you can have holy trinity in action based games and complex fights it just shifts the focus on different things.
But try to sell WOW's early gameplay to someone who doesn't already like it for "historical" reasons, i can't do it. The pitch "wait for the totally awesome endgame, i promise it's good!" doesn't work for people who never experienced it. The countermeasures of "just buy a boost, you even get a free one" aren't helping either, it just confirms that the early game is not good. Even the early endgame of a boosted character isn't good, you need to grind first (In BFA Cloak, Neck, Essences...).
Neither the gameplay or the story presentation for a new player are near "okay, i see potential for fun here" . Leveling is for "veterans" who don't want to boost or want the heritage armor for allied races, it's something you "get done".
WOW has it's community that enjoy the game, some play it nearly everyday, some play in portions (On and off). But rarely attracts fresh blood and this shows everywhere.
I wonder if shadowlands with the level squish tries to change that, but i doubt that based on that you need to know a lot about wow to even have a glimpse on what's going on (Same for BFA/Legion/WOD).