Is there any chance we could do away with the timer in M+? Alot of us don't like it.

[Sharby]

Correct me If I'm wrong, but aren't you penalized for failing the timer? Doesn't the M+ Key you have downgrade, or force you to repeat, or force you to get a new one? So It doesn't matter what you "agree," there's no method to "level up" to higher M+, regardless of ability to complete,...unless you can do it faster.

Except timing has no bearing on whether or not you get a reward nor does it affect loot quality nor the weekly chest.



So if you don't care for the timer it only matters if you want your key to upgrade, which, if its at 15 or higher there's no point in upgrading it further aside from wanting to test your skills in a timed environment.

[glowpipe]

Promotes the tact of "this class or get declined" wow nice

- - - Updated - - -

snip


Imagine with a no timer.

they would go with this class or decline becuse they want to do the no timed run faster.

[Depakote]

I don't like Mythic plus, it breeds a toxic mentality. Let's do away with that entirely.

[iindigo]

So if you don't care for the timer it only matters if you want your key to upgrade, which, if its at 15 or higher there's no point in upgrading it further aside from wanting to test your skills in a timed environment.

I don't think the players who take issue with key timer penalties are sitting at +15 or higher. At that rank, almost everybody has perfectly memorized "the program" and can replay it perfectly for runs that finish with time to spare.

Where the penalty is much more of a problem is at around +7 to +10 and below, where having your key downgraded is a bit of a gut punch, because it means the ladder just got that much taller. Ignoring the timer at those ranks means never progressing, at which point why are you even bothering with M+? If the experience alone is the goal, it'd be better achieved by walking into an M0 half-naked – just like stagnated M+, all the loot is scrapper fodder and at least you don't have the game beating you over the head with your failure.

[Will]

The timer is fine. Maybe it could be extended a little bit for some dungeons, but it's fine.

Seriously, people are complaining about the timer when all they have to do is get good at the dungeons, learn their rotations and CC, learn which packs give which forces, where the patrols are, and how to handle the affixes. Learn these things and just do the dungeon.

Oh and OP, please never say 'alot' again. It's not a real word. It's 'a lot'.

[CoastGrowler]

It just promotes rush rush rush gameplay, and sets up pugs for toxicity.

Maybe just add an option to run them with one chest at the end, without a timer? That keeps everyone happy.

The whole purpose of the M+ thing is based on timers. Removing it would be like removing dying from PVPing, or loot from raiding.

I too don't like any of that, but then I simply ignore it. It's not like I don't have a lot of mounts to farm anyways...

[yamix]

We all would like harder dungeons. They did it in Cata. People cried and they nerfed them. They haven't made hard dungeons since.

Now, instead of having hard dungeons where you can take 3 hours by using CC on the mobs and pull them 1 by 1, you have dungeons that require you to employ imaginative strategies by using BRs, non-traditional skips, maximize your character's throughput over a longer period of time.

Also, if you can't remember to go pee before you start a m+ or can't hold it in for like 30-40 mins, maybe you're not old enough (or too old) to play this game.

Ah, yes, if you have any responsibility that may require your attention for a few moments you shouldn't play. That's a great way to finally put this game in a coffin.

[Carcimomim]

The timer is fine. Maybe it could be extended a little bit for some dungeons, but it's fine.

Seriously, people are complaining about the timer when all they have to do is get good at the dungeons, learn their rotations and CC, learn which packs give which forces, where the patrols are, and how to handle the affixes. Learn these things and just do the dungeon.

Oh and OP, please never say 'alot' again. It's not a real word. It's 'a lot'.

All of this

[Easyclassictopkeklel]

I don't like Mythic plus, it breeds a toxic mentality. Let's do away with that entirely.

Yeah, tell yourself that...people don't change because you remove or change features. Nobody is forcing you to play m+. Nobody is forcing you to play with strangers and push keys. People like you are just too lazy to look for like-minded people and have fun because complaining and not overcoming those odds is just waaaay more comfortable.

[Depakote]

Yeah, tell yourself that...people don't change because you remove or change features. Nobody is forcing you to play m+. Nobody is forcing you to play with strangers and push keys. People like you are just too lazy to look for like-minded people and have fun because complaining and not overcoming those odds is just waaaay more comfortable.

Careful, your elitism is showing.

[Flurryfang]

The timer for M+ does not really seem to be a bad idea, its actually pretty good at pushing people forward, while not really being hard to beat for the people, who are "supposed" to beat the difficulty.

But i will agree, that the PERCEPTION of the timer is having a bad influence on some players. Its a hard problem to deal with really, because you have to play around with how people experience something without really making any changes.

So instead of removing the timer, maybe try to put in some improvements so the timer does not feel oppresive or something like that. Maybe make it easier to know how many mobs you have to kill or make it clear, that you still get loot despite failing the timer. I guess people are still haunted by old Challenge Modes or M+, where running out the timer was a complete failure, where today it is still quite a victory.

[Hinastorm]

We all would like harder dungeons. They did it in Cata. People cried and they nerfed them. They haven't made hard dungeons since.

Now, instead of having hard dungeons where you can take 3 hours by using CC on the mobs and pull them 1 by 1, you have dungeons that require you to employ imaginative strategies by using BRs, non-traditional skips, maximize your character's throughput over a longer period of time.

Also, if you can't remember to go pee before you start a m+ or can't hold it in for like 30-40 mins, maybe you're not old enough (or too old) to play this game.

The hard dungeons were on the random match making in Cata, THAT was the problem, not their difficulty.

Fact is, some of us don't like the timer because it leads to alot of elitism, and gogogo gameplay.

[rhorle]

Fact is, some of us don't like the timer because it leads to alot of elitism, and gogogo gameplay.

But quick completions exist even with out timers. Efficiency may be a problem but it is an understandable one. No one likes waiting around when it isn't needed. There is a reason why trash is skipped, short cuts taken, and things are chain pulled even in Heroics. Because it has nothing to do with a timer existing or not. The timer isn't also about "GO GO GO" because reckless rushing can be just as detrimental to a timer as going to slow.

Also Cataclysm wasn't necessarily hard. I remember hitting level cap early and being able to clear the dungeons just fine. Then a week later it was harder to clear some of them. It really boiled down to skill with the higher skilled players being at level cap faster and the less skilled making them harder once they started to enter the pool. Of course that is just anecdotal. Though did deserve to be nerfed but things are often a matter of perspective that is hard to see if you are on the negative end of an issue.

[Penegal]

The hard dungeons were on the random match making in Cata, THAT was the problem, not their difficulty.

Fact is, some of us don't like the timer because it leads to alot of elitism, and gogogo gameplay.

That maybe true but at best it only increases it by an X amount. It was always there.

[Larryg121]

It just promotes rush rush rush gameplay, and sets up pugs for toxicity.

Maybe just add an option to run them with one chest at the end, without a timer? That keeps everyone happy.

Then what exactly is the point? This sounds like you're not able to handle higher level keys.

Let's just take away the time from Greater Rifts in D3 as well, just to make people happy. What a joke.

[Penegal]

Ah, yes, if you have any responsibility that may require your attention for a few moments you shouldn't play. That's a great way to finally put this game in a coffin.

Accidents happen, but not being prepared for one ahead of time is plain disrespectful to the other players in your group. Your kid fell off its crib and hit its head? Sure, no problem. But just because you last fed your kid X hours ago and instead of thinking about when the next meal should be you join a M+ and suddenly have to feed your kid is not my problem. If your child is prone to crying because it's young enough, don't request strangers to care about that. If you want to be able to deal with it, don't engage in activities that require X amount of time and a group.

[ShmooDude]

Fair point, didn't see it that way. I mean...I still don't get why one timer (even if that timer is in the shape of other, competing human beings) is more engaging than the other and on the other hand people still rush timer-less content like there was a timer.

But like I said earlier - for all I care they could give an option to play without timer (and thus giving up on the option of extra loot...and I guess the key you win would only be +1 to the key you just used?)

I think essentially, it boils down to this:

In PvP the amount of time until you win varies. The amount of time until you lose can also vary. You could, theoretically anyhow, go from a 0-1490 to a 1500-1490 win in Arathi Basin by capping all 5 nodes before that last winning tick goes off (ie you've gone from seconds away from a loss to winning within a single game)

In mythic+, that just doesn't happen. The amount of time until you've won varies, but the amount of time until you lose doesn't.

That's what makes the mythic+ timer inherently less interesting or engaging than the PvP "timer."

---

Along those lines, I had a thought about instead of removing the timer, modifying it's mechanics a bit to where it could be less punishing, but also potentially more interesting.

Right now, you have a fixed timer that requires you to kill all bosses plus x amount of trash in that amount of timer What if instead we used a more dynamic timer that extends based on your killing trash.

For example, a dungeon that has a timer right now of 30 minutes and requires 100 "trash points" would be changed to say 5 minutes plus 30 seconds per trash point (55 minute timer if you clear 100 trash points). This would create a dynamic where you could theoretically skip more trash than now (for the go go go crowd), but screwing up skips or not knowing the "optimal" path (which let's be honest, is probably a big part of the timer hate) isn't really penalizing to the completion of the dungeon since trash in general would be a net gain in time remaining.

The low initial time prevents people from just killing bosses (bosses don't extend the timer).
The existence of the timer itself keeps out cheesy things like waiting for cooldowns/bloodlust for every trash pack (in the example above, there might be say 200 trash points in the entire dungeon, so a maximum timer of 105 minutes).
What trash to clear becomes much less formulaic (since the the amount of trash you need to kill varies based on your DPS; you can also compensate for a wipe by clearing extra trash).
Skipping trash becomes a time saving method rather than a timer saving mechanic (in theory, the highest keys might require killing extra trash for the longer timer).

[iindigo]

Right now, you have a fixed timer that requires you to kill all bosses plus x amount of trash in that amount of timer What if instead we used a more dynamic timer that extends based on your killing trash.

I really like this idea, if only because it allows groups obsessed with contorted skips to continue to do their thing, but groups that prefer to clear everything aren't losing time on the clock from doing so. In fact I think it incentivizes full clears unless the group in question significantly outgears the difficulty in question.

[ShmooDude]

Interesting idea, which I believe has also been done already (only I think in that case bosses added time). Not that it would make everyone happy

Yeah, I was trying to think if there was ever anything like this in WoW but couldn't think of anything.

I kind of got the idea from Path of Exile that I've been playing a lot. One of the missions is essentially like I described. You start with 2 minutes and gain more time as you killed enemies. Often times I'd end up killing the end boss with 15 minutes on the timer so it was clearly only there to make sure you're not just completely outclassed.

There's another map that has the same mechanic but with much tighter tuning, you start with 20 seconds and at best you'd finish with like 40 seconds left (because even if you greatly outclassed the instance, you had to wait for the mobs to spawn before you could kill them anyhow). In that map however, the timer goes away when you get near the boss as opposed to killing it so it's really more of a pacing mechanic, making sure you keep up.

[Jester Joe]

That would actually be cool IF Blizzard ever developed a leaderboard for M+. But they never did. I would have a public posting of the fastest timed run on the server for each dungeon. About 3/4ths of the way through the current season, for each dungeon, Blizzard would reveal the *least* played tank, the *least* played healer, and the top 3 *least* played dps. A new leaderboard would go up for the final 2 months tracking best times for teams comprised specifically of those 5 class/spec combos. Fastest time at the end of the season on that second leaderboard wins a big prize.

https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/ga...wynn/ataldazar

I'm honestly a bit confused right now. There's been leaderboards for a while now.