Should raid loggers get low prio on gear?

[arandomuser]

nothin to do in classic outside of raiding lol

[clevin]

edited....I still stand by what I said. Each person has to find a guild that fits them not fit to the guild.

Well yeah, I agree with that.

[Shaetha]

"You got me to confess"? Excuse me? I've made my stance clear from the get go. I have no issues with the raid loggers themselves, I have an issue with the action of raid-logging. I also don't agree with giving Ash'Kandi to a Fury Warrior who raid logs, cause he doesn't need it for raids/doesn't PVP/doesn't play the game outside of raids so why would he need a 2hander? I'd much rather give it to the Prot warrior who runs dungeons with his guildies and farms PVP as well, while respeccing twice a week to make this possible. In terms of raiding gear? Same prio, they were there for the boss, they performed, they deserve it as much as anyone. For anything BEYOND raiding gear? Like PVP gear, or RP gear (if that's your shtick, I got Finkle's Lava Dredger even though I don't need it cause I simply adore the model), then no, the raid-logger has no claim on such items because he won't be playing the content they are there for.

Ima say it again to make it crystal clear. People have claimed Raidlogging is fine, performing in raids is all that matters. I've given examples how that is not entirely the case, because of a bunch of shit goes on behind the scenes to offer this raid-logger the stable raiding environment and the successful leadership needed to clear a raid. That is all.

Except you've backtracked on what you said. You listed some specific, not PVP only items.

On-topic - I never said they don't deserve loot, or deserve a lower priority on loot. If they show up on time, prepared & ready, and aren't idiots. Although as others have said I wouldn't give PVP 2handers or important items such as TOEP, Choker, Nef loot to a raid-logger.

Quick, go edit this out of the post on page 5 to make it not look like you think you're entitled, or you can accept you were caught cold with a complete agreement with the OP. Not allowing roll on anything that the person would use for raid, like the specifically mentioned TOEP(Talisman of Ephemeral Power) is lower priority on loot, regardless of any creative redefinitions of language you want to use.

Just admit you think you're better than people than raid log, and people will only hate you for that. Instead of that and lying.

[DazManianDevil]

-Snip- How many buttons is your rotation lmao? Shldnt be parsing that high with all of the utility you are supposedly providing

This made my day, trying to flame a poor Crit Chicken over the number of keybinds for a rotation, in Classic WoW.

[Dalinos]

Except you've backtracked on what you said. You listed some specific, not PVP only items.



Quick, go edit this out of the post on page 5 to make it not look like you think you're entitled, or you can accept you were caught cold with a complete agreement with the OP. Not allowing roll on anything that the person would use for raid, like the specifically mentioned TOEP(Talisman of Ephemeral Power) is lower priority on loot, regardless of any creative redefinitions of language you want to use.

Just admit you think you're better than people than raid log, and people will only hate you for that. Instead of that and lying.

TOEP & some Nefarian loot are basically irreplaceable for the duration of Classic, and their power level is just through the roof compared to other stuff that's available. Who has a higher chance of sticking around? The raid logger who plays 4-6h/week? Or the active member who actually enjoys the game as a whole and spends time with the team?

In my experience, in Classic (not vanilla, in OG vanilla you literally couldn't raid log), the raid loggers are the ones that have the highest chance of quitting. Guess it's because they're not invested enough in the game. Would honestly not want to give an item that is BiS for the whole game to someone who has a high chance of quitting.

[Soluna]

TOEP & some Nefarian loot are basically irreplaceable for the duration of Classic, and their power level is just through the roof compared to other stuff that's available. Who has a higher chance of sticking around? The raid logger who plays 4-6h/week? Or the active member who actually enjoys the game as a whole and spends time with the team?

In my experience, in Classic (not vanilla, in OG vanilla you literally couldn't raid log), the raid loggers are the ones that have the highest chance of quitting. Guess it's because they're not invested enough in the game. Would honestly not want to give an item that is BiS for the whole game to someone who has a high chance of quitting.

Neither, because the raid logger has a chance to quit, while the active player has a chance to get in a different guild. Chances are that if a non raid logger feels like this about raid loggers getting loot, his guild is most likely not in agreement with his entitlement of loot cause he does all sorts of boring grinds outside raid lol.

[Tumile]

As someone with an extensive background of everything that is WoW, Pve, Pvp, top 0.001% or the absolute cess pool bottom, ive been there. never managed to find the joy in being the girlfriend gamer who plays the game for collectables though, just find that kinda sad, but whatever floats peoples boats i guess.

I have recently finished my Rank 14 grind. Should i get lower loot prio because i had 0 interaction with the guild while doing the last month of that grind? I had to sit and premade for 20 hours a day, My living situation isnt exactly complicated, but no one wants to hear the entire backstory so TL;DR I have responsibilities, I have a dog, i own a house, Im off work for 3 months to rank. so with all of that i got 2 hours of sleep a day, and 1-2 days off Tuesday Monday where i could sleep.

No interaction with the guild, stopped raiding even for the last 2 weeks cuz they got so rough. yet the guild seems happy to have a rank 14 player on the roster? many players were encouraged to go rank 14 by the guild, hmm strange.

Lets have a look at what I missed out on. Absolutely nothing wow related, any none absolute dog player have finished gearing and preparing their 4th alts for raiding, unless they are ranking, then they might only have 2-3 fully pre-raid bis chars ready and consumes stocked. So what did my none ranking guildies do? They played other games and raid logged. What do I intend to do after playing 20+ horus a day for months? I intend to raid log, and play other games. We are out of content, we have been out of content for a long time. I log on to Bomb some random guilds going to raid, and thats about it.

Now lets flip your question, and see how you think your argument holds up when we twist your intentions a bit but the result is in essence the same. You are salty that people who do not contribute as much to the guild, gets equal loot prio to you. what if that person is severly handicapped, they struggle with interacting with other people, and may not feel comfortable with their gameplay so they try to keep to themselves? I would actually say that giving that person decreased loot prio based on those credentials is bordering on Cyber bullying.

You see, what I'm getting at is theres 2 types of Toxic assholes in this world. Theres me, who generally prefers an edgy vocabulary, and then theres the hidden little wife beaters like you. literally just from reading this I am so sure you are some psychotic asshole, sure you sugarcoat your words, but the essence of what you are saying is infinitely more unfair, mean and toxic than any 12 year old screaming that they fucked your mum last night.

Proper conduct does not excuse toxic behaviour, please sort yourself out mate. also you would get higher loot prio if you just didnt suck at the game honestly. so maybe just get good you little loot whore.

[CostinR]

General hot topic is the large amount of raid loggers each guild has and the hidden animosity that brews between them and general players. They might login once or twice a week to raid and then are gone the rest of the week. Not helping the guild in anyway but still getting the same priority on gear that every day players get.

Should they get the same priority on gear since they assisted in the kills or would the gear be wasted on someone who only uses the gear to raid and rarely is on to help the guild out with other parts of the game.

From personal experience as a guild leader on a insanely buffed server: Activity isn't the only metric that matters.

Gear ideally should be given as a priority to the most skilled and active players that are also willing to go the extra mile to help the guild and I stress the guild part of that statement. Helping people through dungeons to get pre-raid attunments/gear, helping to do world pvp, bosses, running Dire Maul North before raids to get world buffs and so on.

Simply being more active or playing with your friends does not count.

Now of course the players that are highly skilled, reliable, active and genuinely helpful are like unicorns. They exist but very rarely. The vast majority of players in a guild aren't like that. The unicorns of course get gear prio over everyone else, but for the rest? It's not so clear cut.

You might have someone who's a great player, handles boss mechanics and his rotation very well and is a genuine asset to the guild, and helps runs guildies through many dungeons for the things they need but he might not give a damn to farm gold or you might have a very active player that shows up every raid and beyond, farms all his shit without help but is a sub-par player.

Context always matters, and when giving gear you always have to balance things out. I would never however flat out give people lower gear prio just because they raid log. View the guild like a company with whom you have a work contract. Unless it's explicitly stated and held as a general rule that's made clear when joining the guild then it shouldn't be held against people that they only care to raid log.

[Sithalos]

As if there's anything else to do in Classic but raid log.

[Heathy]

there is it just isn't that interesting to do all the time.

there are a couple of reasons why I could be playing wow over anything else, levelling an alt to 60 could be useful. if you main a healer, level a tank or dps etc.

and for me farming arcane crystals for TF. its not fun, just running around zones for hours competing for mining nodes.

boosting other ppls alts, I don't mind this but I prefer a trade boost system, where you boost a friends alt and they boost your alt. as an MT i could theoretically sit there boosting alts until the end of time. which I'd ofc rather not do. I don't mind helping ppl get to level 40-45-ish because its all down hill after that but I don't wanna log in an only do that.

I didn't want the first set of bindings, so i passed which made me the second MT, our warrior CL is our main MT, so I don't mind passing gear to him first, it fucks with a dkp system if everyone is an altruist but gearing up one MT is ideally the best way to go. same as letting ppl who are 1 piece away from setbonuses get those. so far i've seen this being the case, that ppl will just pass gear anyway. in some cases there aren't many ppl who can effectively use certain loots, we have a lot of warriors but only 3 of us are tanks, so there isn't much competition on certain tank items. the issue I have right now is I can log in and grind arcane crystals, and if lucky make 100s of gold an hour, but its all toward the sword. so I don't really go up in gold unless i'm killing raid bosses with 0 deaths or farming dm east 2man that seems to be a mixed bag. I haven't done a herbalist/alchemist this time so i'm relying on my guild and my bro for potions.

I don't think it matters too much so long as ppl are doing something each week, there doesn't seem to be much reason to burn out on the game try harding too much. but if you want to create 100s of potions for your tanks and dps I won't complain.

[xpose]

Because it is a video game and i fulfill my social needs in real life.

I meet up twice a week with 39 other ppl to down bosses and get gear. I have 1 person who plays the same class as me and we might chat a bit during the raid. That's enough social interaction I need in a video game. Couldnt give a shit about anyone's life, their kids, their other hobbies. I have a fiance, a family, real friends. I play wow to kill shit and get shiny pixels, not to share my life with strangers on the internet.

Sounds like you have some repressed emotions from your younger life and your using wow and a guild to fill that void.

bro you have 8000 posts on a mmo forum. I think its apparent you have no social interactions IRL with this kind of response :P

[Akka]

Those people either don't have enough gear to mop the floor with you yet or they are incredibly bad, as even an orange parsed oomkin would lose to a 50th percentile rogue.

You realize that a rogue being 50th percentile means that he's actually "average", not "bad" ?
And in fact, considering the people who bother to parse are only a part of the population, and among the part that tend to be statistically more hardcore than those who don't, it actually means that a 50th percentil rogue is "above average".

[yamix]

As if there's anything else to do in Classic but raid log.

Especially with bad AV and no AB yet.

[Dalinos]

bro you have 8000 posts on a mmo forum. I think its apparent you have no social interactions IRL with this kind of response :P

Hahahahah just noticed. He's telling me off about social interactions, when I've got 350 posts on a 10yr old account, and he's got 8k posts on a 5yr old account. Hypocricy much? :P

[Altflol]

To OP and Dalinos

So what did actually happen guys? Did you try to pull that shit on someone and got called out on it? Did you lose an item to what you consider a "scummy" raidlogger while you(Dalinos, The Guild Enchanter who also works 45 hours/week while still able to banter on discord on his phone, while at work(I don't even...)) "sacrifice" so much for the guild?

There is then this situation when some players do get help with leveling, attunements, an elixir, a fire pot from the bank and so on, and you only see them online 30 mins top before the raid, while still wearing greens of the bear.
Then you maybe also hear them on discord how the did that on this other game/games and only log once of twice a week for the raid gear.
Then you notice them bottom of dps or healing, or first to die and often while giving the same excuses of not getting heals, bad luck, etc.

Would it be fair to give that loot to them over people you can rely upon for your raid? Those people who did all that, leveled, got attuned, got prebis, got reputations to exalted, come always with consumables which they farm themselves and they now log mostly only for raids.

But this isn't what you two were on about, because this has a different name and an easy solution to deal with since this and others game like this exist.

So what you call a raidlogger should get the same priority on loot, else look for a better guild, which shouldn't be hard for someone who is by now geared, brings his own comsumables, is enchanted, has all or most rep to exalted and now logs mostly for raids.

[BeepBoo]

You realize that a rogue being 50th percentile means that he's actually "average", not "bad" ?

Average and bad is synonymous for me.

And in fact, considering the people who bother to parse are only a part of the population, and among the part that tend to be statistically more hardcore than those who don't, it actually means that a 50th percentil rogue is "above average".

Literally not how percentiles, warcraft logs, or the part of the population I care about works.

The only way 50th percentile would be anything but "bad" is if the difference between 90th percentile and 10th percentile was like 5%. If the worst player is only doing 5% less damage than the best players, then skill doesn't matter. However, the difference between 50th and 90th is huge. Upwards of 100% performance difference. So, no, being "avg" doesn't mean you're "above average" and even then, being "above average" wouldn't mean shit if the discrepancy is that high.

[clevin]

Gear ideally should be given as a priority to the most skilled and active players that are also willing to go the extra mile to help the guild and I stress the guild part of that statement.

...

I would never however flat out give people lower gear prio just because they raid log.

If you favor people who DO help more than raid logging you are effectively given the raid logger a lower priority.

[Akka]

Average and bad is synonymous for me.

Guess it means you must be of "average" intelligence then.

[BeepBoo]

Guess it means you must be of "average" intelligence then.

I've shown how average is bad from a performance standpoint. You can't do half the performance of someone who is better and think that's fine. Average, in most cases, is not a good representation of the potential of human success, and success is what we're all after.

[Bethrezen]

That is upto their respective guild leadership to decide.