Page 6 of 10 FirstFirst ...
4
5
6
7
8
... LastLast
  1. #101
    Quote Originally Posted by Biomega View Post
    Solo players can easily get a fresh 120 to ~440 within a single reset - often within a few days. No raiding or high M+ required. That's plenty to smash the Visions on every class. I've done it myself on fresh alts.


    I mean, in terms of time vs. reward doing the quest chain is one of the best things you could be doing with an alt. It really is much quicker than people think once you know what you're doing, especially since you can skip one scenario on alts. Putting in 2h to get a 480+ item is better than anything else you could be doing on an alt, really.

    The Cloak is really the LEAST bothersome thing about the whole alt nightmare that is BFA. It's essences that hold you back, and the whole associated daily quest bullshit.
    Yup, I mean outside of the cloak you will get a 420ish piece of gear, 430 Azerite piece, 440 corrupted wrists as well. So for an Alt its well worth it, but for someone main who kept up with BFA it wasn't. Plus I don't see the draw back of not betting it to +5 because you pretty much get the vessels from the initial chain. I think the massive drop off comes from the population just after that. I don't think anyone is bothering with it and I don't think many of them care about the corruption aspect.

  2. #102
    The fucked-up thing about corruption is definitely not the Cloak. It's everything else.

  3. #103
    Quote Originally Posted by Bennett View Post
    The fact an hour long quest line is seen as too long to obtain the most powerful item in the game is a problem with players, not Blizzard. You can't blame them for people being lazy
    Dude, it's a Blizzard problem in my view, because the way I see it, they don't understand what is wrong. They look at metrics and they see the cloak quest not being done. But the reason is not the quest itself, it's the all other systems, like essences. People who hate essences grind will not even do the cloak, they have no reason do do it. They log on, remember the essences shitstorm, and logout. Nobody will put time and effort into the cloak and the upgrades if they know that the essences, combined, require an immense time investment. So they choose to not do it. Blizzard is stupid for not understanding this and making shameful guides about shit people already know for a month, thinking that's the issue.

  4. #104
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    If doing that increases retention and $$$ for ATVI, that damn right that is what Blizzard should do. More likely, they just get rid of M raiding (and its gear) entirely.

    I can't repeat this enough: Blizzard employees are not there to realize some ideal game. They are there to make money for their employer. There is no other reason for Blizzard and the games it produces to exist.
    Mythic Raiding, High end M+, and Gladiator Arena are the only 3 features keeping the game alive. If Blizzard handed everyone gear the game would be dead faster than Wildstar. The fact that you're even attempting to make such an argument shows everyone what a shill you are because you don't give a single fuck about the game.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    The quest does not take 2-3 hours to complete after the first run through. It may take that long for a person that isn't as efficient as they could be the first time through. It isn't living in a fantasy world. There are skips so you only have to do blackrock and the vision halls of origination parts. The rest is just travel around the world.
    You literally only get one skip and it's the first scenario with Magni in Halls of Origination. It takes over an hour to complete the entire chain for alts(which you forgot the Mogu'shan Palace scenario too), which is why I've literally not touched most of my alts this patch, same goes for essences. I refuse to have to do the same grind over and over, when they take an excessive amount of time. I want to have at least a little bit of a life outside of the game too and if I'm spending(even if it did only take an hour per alt cloak) 10 hours doing alt cloaks, then another 5-10 hours per week to gather currency to upgrade the cloaks, then having to spend ridiculous amounts of time on essences I'd literally have less of a life I currently do and would likely be sleeping less too.

    Having the Cloak on a single toon should allow you to skip all 3 scenarios, you should be able to trade vessels across your account, we should have account wide essences with the ridiculous amount of time it takes to get the majority of rank 3s. Blizzard is just not making a player-friendly game and it shows, even Legion had BoA tokens for Legiondaries with the last patch, which dropped regularly and there was a currency from WQs that allowed you to target specific class tokens. BFA has made ZERO effort to become even moderately alt friendly.
    Last edited by Zyky; 2020-02-29 at 10:38 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by scarecrowz View Post
    Trust me.

    Zyky is better than you.

  5. #105
    Quote Originally Posted by Zyky View Post
    Mythic Raiding, High end M+, and Gladiator Arena are the only 3 features keeping the game alive.
    Utter crap. Few players do those. This is just the usual noxious hardcore spiel that other players just play because they want that small high end minority to have fun.
    "There is a pervasive myth that making content hard will induce players to rise to the occasion. We find the opposite. " -- Ghostcrawler
    "The bit about hardcore players not always caring about the long term interests of the game is spot on." -- Ghostcrawler
    "Do you want a game with no casuals so about 500 players?"

  6. #106
    The Insane rhorle's Avatar
    15+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Michigan
    Posts
    19,488
    Quote Originally Posted by Zyky View Post
    You literally only get one skip and it's the first scenario with Magni in Halls of Origination.
    You can also skip Mogu'shan palace. That is two. The only scenarios that you are required to do is Blackrock and the Vision part of Halls of origination. The pre and post blackrock. Once you do those you have the cloak.

    Alts require work. Alts shouldn't be given things simply because you made the choice to have alts and gear them all up to the teeth. There is nothing wrong with the essences not being account wide. The only part that should have been unlocked account wide is the cosmetic rank 4. If you refuse to do the same stuff over and over then you really didn't want alts to begin with so the issue is moot.
    "Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
    You know a community is bad when moderators lock a thread because "...this isnt the place to talk about it either seeing as it will get trolled..."

  7. #107
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Utter crap. Few players do those. This is just the usual noxious hardcore spiel that other players just play because they want that small high end minority to have fun.
    The data is there, you can say "few players do those", but the numbers are there to prove it on various websites.
    Quote Originally Posted by scarecrowz View Post
    Trust me.

    Zyky is better than you.

  8. #108
    Quote Originally Posted by Zyky View Post
    The data is there, you can say "few players do those", but the numbers are there to prove it on various websites.
    Let's look at raids. Only 20% of tracked raiding guilds (which are only a fraction of players) have killed the first boss in M Ny'alotha. Just 3304 guilds. Assuming a generous bench, that's about 100K players. (And it's not clear that guilds that down the first few bosses are much retained by M raiding; that's half those guilds at this point.)

    If that's a substantial fraction of the player population then the game is not just in trouble, the game is nearly dead.
    Last edited by Osmeric; 2020-02-29 at 11:07 PM.
    "There is a pervasive myth that making content hard will induce players to rise to the occasion. We find the opposite. " -- Ghostcrawler
    "The bit about hardcore players not always caring about the long term interests of the game is spot on." -- Ghostcrawler
    "Do you want a game with no casuals so about 500 players?"

  9. #109
    Quote Originally Posted by deenman View Post
    agree so much with this,using one currency for both was just odd,even the mount feels weird,who is actualy getting that mount in this expansion?
    Well you get 1k from mobs in raid

    Full clear with mask is over 5k

    I don’t expect little Timmy to do that for a few more weeks

    The mount being 100k means 20 mask clears

    Not too tough

  10. #110
    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    You can also skip Mogu'shan palace. That is two. The only scenarios that you are required to do is Blackrock and the Vision part of Halls of origination. The pre and post blackrock. Once you do those you have the cloak.

    Alts require work. Alts shouldn't be given things simply because you made the choice to have alts and gear them all up to the teeth. There is nothing wrong with the essences not being account wide. The only part that should have been unlocked account wide is the cosmetic rank 4. If you refuse to do the same stuff over and over then you really didn't want alts to begin with so the issue is moot.

    Unless that's more recent, I was not able to skip mogu'shan on either alt I did the cloak on.

    No alt should be required to do weeks of time-gated and outdated grinding for massive power gains. I agree alts should require a certain degree of work, but the work shouldn't be placed on time-gated content or outdated content that nobody wants to do(like Eternal Palace for one of the most desired essences available). I should be able to pick up an alt and if I'm skilled be able to play that alt in whatever content I want to play. I shouldn't have to go do world quests and old raids to get huge power increases if I just want to enjoy M+ on a different class. Or god forbid I want to change my main, I should be able to jump onto that toon and do current content to get anything I need.
    Last edited by Zyky; 2020-02-29 at 10:52 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by scarecrowz View Post
    Trust me.

    Zyky is better than you.

  11. #111
    The Insane rhorle's Avatar
    15+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Michigan
    Posts
    19,488
    Quote Originally Posted by Zyky View Post
    Unless that's more recent, I was not able to skip mogu'shan on either alt I did the cloak on.
    It has been there since launch and I did it on friday of launch week with two alts. I got them the cloak before the assault ended. It definitely was not 4 hours per total. I didn't time it but an hour or so feels right. They gear they had was some 415 pieces. As they have whatever you get from the quest plus what ever black empire tokens I mailed them (one is my horde alt I did for story and the other is my druid herbalism/healing alt that I have just neglected).

    The alt wouldn't have to do "out dated" grinding if you did it while current. So that argument is silly. If it was so important you would have worked on it for that alt when it was current. But it wasn't important enough. There certainly can be some better catch up mechanics but it doesn't have to be account wide. If you are barely playing the alt anyways then you don't need "Best in slot" essences for that alt.
    "Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
    You know a community is bad when moderators lock a thread because "...this isnt the place to talk about it either seeing as it will get trolled..."

  12. #112
    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    It has been there since launch and I did it on friday of launch week with two alts. I got them the cloak before the assault ended. It definitely was not 4 hours per total. I didn't time it but an hour or so feels right. They gear they had was some 415 pieces. As they have whatever you get from the quest plus what ever black empire tokens I mailed them (one is my horde alt I did for story and the other is my druid herbalism/healing alt that I have just neglected).

    The alt wouldn't have to do "out dated" grinding if you did it while current. So that argument is silly. If it was so important you would have worked on it for that alt when it was current. But it wasn't important enough. There certainly can be some better catch up mechanics but it doesn't have to be account wide. If you are barely playing the alt anyways then you don't need "Best in slot" essences for that alt.
    Ya I'm not replying more about the cloak questline because now you're trying to feed me BS that isn't truthful because I did 3 cloaks in the first 2 weeks and didn't get an option to skip Mogu'shan once.


    And what if I wasn't playing last tier because I was off enjoying Classic. Your logic is stupidly flawed. People come into the game at various points, people get the desire to play alts at various times in an expansion. Nobody is upkeeping 13 toons every single patch, it's not realisitic. Classes change on a patch to patch basis, things change that make classes more enjoyable, better, worse, less enjoyable. Bottom line is it should not be expected to upkeep one of every class just because of "oh if you really cared about the alt you would have done it while it was current" which is absolute nonsense.

    Actually I'm done with you. Don't bother to reply.
    Quote Originally Posted by scarecrowz View Post
    Trust me.

    Zyky is better than you.

  13. #113
    The Insane rhorle's Avatar
    15+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Michigan
    Posts
    19,488
    Quote Originally Posted by Zyky View Post
    Ya I'm not replying more about the cloak questline because now you're trying to feed me BS that isn't truthful because I did 3 cloaks in the first 2 weeks and didn't get an option to skip Mogu'shan once.
    Okay. You believe what you want. The skip is there, and has been there since the launch of 8.3. Just because you've missed something doesn't mean it doesn't exist it simply means you've missed it.

    https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comment...intro_on_alts/

    Here is a random post I took from google for a search of "Mogu'shan palace skip". It has people replying that you can skip it on the 16th when the patch launched on the 14th.

    Here is another: https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wo...intro/412653/4

    and one more: https://www.wowhead.com/quest=56541/...nts:id=3182202

    I can post dozens of links but I doubt it will matter since you've clearly made up your mind to be willfully ignorant.
    "Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
    You know a community is bad when moderators lock a thread because "...this isnt the place to talk about it either seeing as it will get trolled..."

  14. #114
    Quote Originally Posted by zantheus1993 View Post
    Well you get 1k from mobs in raid

    Full clear with mask is over 5k

    I don’t expect little Timmy to do that for a few more weeks

    The mount being 100k means 20 mask clears

    Not too tough
    to rush mount is not tough,but after getting all upgrades and sockets,idk

  15. #115
    The Patient
    5+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Aug 2018
    Location
    North Carolina
    Posts
    327
    Quote Originally Posted by Feral Druid ist Op View Post
    You cant raid without it, you get insta MCD on cara/nzoth i guess it applies to lfr too so they need the cloak to do it.

    I will buy a Heroic version carry for the last boss/mount. Tag the boss and die without the cloak mattering. I can see the last fight and not grind any cloak quests. The gear isn't an incentive for me either. I can do my activities with a non cloak mid 440's item level on all 14 toons. My wife upgrades her cloak every week and she doesn't appear to enjoy doing it very much. WoW is a nice game that allows all of us to pursue different goals with differing efforts. Stay safe!
    Last edited by Metrox; 2020-02-29 at 11:32 PM.

  16. #116
    Quote Originally Posted by Metrox View Post
    I will buy a Heroic version carry for the last boss/mount. Tag the boss and die without the cloak mattering. I can see the last fight and not grind any cloak quests. The gear isn't an incentive for me either. I can do my activities with a non cloak mid 440's item level on all 14 toons. My wife upgrades her cloak every week and she doesn't appear to enjoy doing it very much. WoW is a nice game that allows all of us to pursue different goals with differing efforts. Stay safe!
    Seems like your wife is doing something she does not enjoy in her free time. Why?

  17. #117
    Quote Originally Posted by deenman View Post
    to rush mount is not tough,but after getting all upgrades and sockets,idk
    I have I think 4 more upgrades left and it’s at 7.4k

    So figure about 35k to 50k

    The sockets are something only high level players really care about

    So 30 runs worth
    Super casual means 10 weeks

    Again if you go for sockets you go for more masks

  18. #118
    The Patient
    5+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Aug 2018
    Location
    North Carolina
    Posts
    327
    Quote Originally Posted by Aliven View Post
    Seems like your wife is doing something she does not enjoy in her free time. Why?
    She is a focused individual who sees that reputation goal line. She has just gotten her 100 exaulted reputations and she sees the cloak as necessary to grind rep for pets, toys, and mounts. Her end result is worth the drudgery/annoyance of Purple World but it appears to not be an enjoyable time. Conversely, I have a friend that enjoys constantly testing his playing abilities by doing hard content. Failure is just fuel to try again, change some things, and overcome whatever was stopping him. Both have the same level cloaks every week but enjoyment is not shared.

  19. #119
    I just don't get why everything has to be tied to raiding?

    Why can't we have new systems just be their own thing without locking legendary items to them or extremely powerful items like sockets?

    I honestly think it would be better if the game included a diversity of content without making a daily chore for raiders.

  20. #120
    Quote Originally Posted by Zyky View Post
    Nobody is upkeeping 13 toons every single patch, it's not realisitic. Classes change on a patch to patch basis, things change that make classes more enjoyable, better, worse, less enjoyable. Bottom line is it should not be expected to upkeep one of every class just because of "oh if you really cared about the alt you would have done it while it was current" which is absolute nonsense.
    This is the problem I've run into in both Legion and BFA, and what's killed my desire to play alts, which in turn has killed my desire to play the game.

    I get bored with one play style, which is why I've played with a full stable of alts since Wrath. In Legion and now BFA, each alt I play feels like they are so far behind that it's overwhelming to think about what it takes to get them up to speed, and feel like playing a different alt, that first alt now feel neglected.

    WoD was the first to hit with the unlock fatigue, of redo'ing quest & story lines on every single alt for all the character specific stuff to unlock, but if I recall, once unlocked, I didn't feel like my alts were being left behind if I wasn't doing dailies, etc. on those alts. WoD was the last time I logged in to do stuff "for fun", because I didn't have anything that felt mandatory, so I'd do pet battles, and transmogs run and other stuff that didn't progress my character. Since Legion with my alts always feeling like they are losing out if I'm not leveling the artifact Weapons, or the essences now, and what have you, it felt like I was logging in to do stuff I had to do, versus in the past, doing stuff I wanted to do.

    "Take the time to sit down and talk with your adversaries. You will learn something, and they will learn something from you. When two enemies are talking, they are not fighting. It's when the talking ceases that the ground becomes fertile for violence. So keep the conversation going."
    ~ Daryl Davis

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •