Republican walkout in Oregon Legislature (again) delays Umatilla flood aid

[Rukh]

So the aid is being tied to an unrelated policy bill in order to extort Republicans into voting for it?

They can totally vote against it if that is what they want. What they shouldn't do is obstruct the entire process for their own short-term gain and shit on the name of their party by obstructing the very process itself by running away and hiding. Or do, its probably better that way in the long-run. Voters won't forget.

[cubby]

So the aid is being tied to an unrelated policy bill in order to extort Republicans into voting for it?

No. But that's what you're being told to think - looks like it's working, too.

The Oregon House GOP walked off their jobs like little children with their hands over their ears, squealing because they couldn't have a second dessert. The legislative process is complex, with many compromises. "Walking off the job" isn't party of that process. Period.

They should be rounded up by authorities, and at the very least fired.

[Kellhound]

They can totally vote against it if that is what they want. What they shouldn't do is obstruct the entire process for their own short-term gain and shit on the name of their party by obstructing the very process itself by running away and hiding. Or do, its probably better that way in the long-run. Voters won't forget.

Its Oregon, there are only a handful (at best) of elected officials that have to worry about what the independent or opposing voters remember. It is a very polarized rural/urban split. Neither party gives a rats ass about the needs and wants of the opposition.

[Stormdash]

No. But that's what you're being told to think - looks like it's working, too.

The Oregon House GOP walked off their jobs like little children with their hands over their ears, squealing because they couldn't have a second dessert. The legislative process is complex, with many compromises. "Walking off the job" isn't party of that process. Period.

They should be rounded up by authorities, and at the very least fired.

Yes or no, is the flood relief up for a vote as a stand-alone legislative matter?

[Doctor Amadeus]

I remember in Texas when Democrats did this, and I supported it then too, I don't have to agree with Republicans on this however when it comes to Civil Disobedience or Representing their constituents I have no problem with this, in fact I would say it's their duty.

This is how representation should work.

That said these Representatives and their voters are out are being stupid.

[Bodakane]

I remember in Texas when Democrats did this, and I supported it then too, I don't have to agree with Republicans on this however when it comes to Civil Disobedience or Representing their constituents I have no problem with this, in fact I would say it's their duty.

This is how representation should work.

That said these Representatives and their voters are out are being stupid.

Crisis aid should never be a political bargaining chip, no matter what side is doing it.

[Easo]

The idea that you need to vote on whether people should be helped after severe flooding or not is amazing.

But you see, the problem is - it works. The average voter is truly that stupid and/or wilfully ignorant (which is way worse).

[cubby]

I remember in Texas when Democrats did this, and I supported it then too, I don't have to agree with Republicans on this however when it comes to Civil Disobedience or Representing their constituents I have no problem with this, in fact I would say it's their duty.

This is how representation should work.

That said these Representatives and their voters are out are being stupid.

Walking out isn't how representation should work. At all. Walking it out is a protest. Not doing your the job you were hired for isn't a protest. It's not doing your job. They all should be fired.

[Doctor Amadeus]

Walking out isn't how representation should work. At all. Walking it out is a protest. Not doing your the job you were hired for isn't a protest. It's not doing your job. They all should be fired.

Well think about that, what does representation mean if it's not to actually act on behalf of those whom elected you?

Yes it is a protest, one individual for several others, instead of thousands of or millions of representatives however misguided those who elected are, working on that behalf.

Doesn't matter to title Senator, Congress or Whatever.

Is it frustrating? Yes, maybe even sometimes stupid

The same is true globally as well.

Individuals earnestly working on behalf of actual people, working with others to prevent war, to save off drastic action by the populace

Otherwise government means nothing, and Organization can only be maintained through tyranny or chaos.


When representatives don't do everything and more on behalf of their constituents no matter how desperate, then what will happen is they either won't get re elected, or the people who came out and voted for them by majority, will disavow their representation, democracy and anything else after a while, and act and protest themselves, or go much further.


As I said, I don't agree, but I much rather representatives ACTING on behalf of those they represent.


Better a handful in conflict for the many, than everyone at each others throats.

[cubby]

Well think about that, what does representation mean if it's not to actually act on behalf of those whom elected you?

Yes it is a protest, one individual for several others, instead of thousands of or millions of representatives however misguided those who elected are, working on that behalf.

Doesn't matter to title Senator, Congress or Whatever.

Is it frustrating? Yes, maybe even sometimes stupid

The same is true globally as well.

Individuals earnestly working on behalf of actual people, working with others to prevent war, to save off drastic action by the populace

Otherwise government means nothing, and Organization can only be maintained through tyranny or chaos.


When representatives don't do everything and more on behalf of their constituents no matter how desperate, then what will happen is they either won't get re elected, or the people who came out and voted for them by majority, will disavow their representation, democracy and anything else after a while, and act and protest themselves, or go much further.


As I said, I don't agree, but I much rather representatives ACTING on behalf of those they represent.


Better a handful in conflict for the many, than everyone at each others throats.

But they aren't acting on those they represent. They are shutting down the government and preventing others from getting word done. All your lofty pronouncements are meaningless in this case - we have a minority group of elected representatives preventing everyone else from getting work done. You claim that's what it's all about - but then nothing gets done.

Compromise is how governing works. Walking out and refusing to do your job is just cowardly.

[Doctor Amadeus]

But they aren't acting on those they represent. They are shutting down the government and preventing others from getting word done. All your lofty pronouncements are meaningless in this case - we have a minority group of elected representatives preventing everyone else from getting work done. You claim that's what it's all about - but then nothing gets done.

Compromise is how governing works. Walking out and refusing to do your job is just cowardly.

That's how democracy works, or at times doesn't compromise on everything shouldn't be required especially to go along with even the majority just because.

Again I totally disagree with these Republicans on the issues, but if these were Democrats like in Texas I would say I'd support it. Although that had to do with women having control over their rights concerning abortion.

[cubby]

That's how democracy works, or at times doesn't compromise on everything shouldn't be required especially to go along with even the majority just because.

Again I totally disagree with these Republicans on the issues, but if these were Democrats like in Texas I would say I'd support it. Although that had to do with women having control over their rights concerning abortion.

I'm with on the sentimentality for the most part - it's the mechanism that I disagree with. I don't think in this particular case that that's how democracy works. Not regarding elected representatives. It's not ok to shut down the legislative process because you're not getting your way. I realize there are civil rights aspects that dovetail this discussion, but at the end of the day, walking out and running away is never ok. You have to legislate, and sometimes that means bills get passed that you don't like. Tough shit.

They should be at least fired, if not jailed, for their actions.

[Beefhammer]

So the aid is being tied to an unrelated policy bill in order to extort Republicans into voting for it?

Ahh yes, as if the GOP does not have a long history of doing exactly this. They can simply vote against the bill if they do not like it and possibly not continue the practice of doing this. But you know, they project like motherfuckers and will continue to do these things. Hilarious to see how they act when their tactics get used on them.

- - - Updated - - -

I'm with on the sentimentality for the most part - it's the mechanism that I disagree with. I don't think in this particular case that that's how democracy works. Not regarding elected representatives. It's not ok to shut down the legislative process because you're not getting your way. I realize there are civil rights aspects that dovetail this discussion, but at the end of the day, walking out and running away is never ok. You have to legislate, and sometimes that means bills get passed that you don't like. Tough shit.

They should be at least fired, if not jailed, for their actions.

Tyranny of the minority. And the GOP is always crying about a tyrannical government amirite?

[Doctor Amadeus]

I'm with on the sentimentality for the most part - it's the mechanism that I disagree with. I don't think in this particular case that that's how democracy works. Not regarding elected representatives. It's not ok to shut down the legislative process because you're not getting your way. I realize there are civil rights aspects that dovetail this discussion, but at the end of the day, walking out and running away is never ok. You have to legislate, and sometimes that means bills get passed that you don't like. Tough shit.

They should be at least fired, if not jailed, for their actions.

Ok I’ll put it another way.


The civil rights movement people protested and were jailed. Because the wrongs I’ve society as a whole were more important than compromising with those that had power.

Personally I wish it would happen more. I rather 1 or a handful protesting and sacrificing who can articulate for those I disagree with vs a general population who think all their politicians are corrupt and they have to sacrifice and take extreme measures.

Before you say it no they didn’t do this in the 60s. That’s because people who had dogs set on them fire hoses shot at them. Didn’t have any representation or voice otherwise.


As I said I think we agree this is stupid and this issue doesn’t rise to that need, but keep in mind this is where a bunch a right wing nut jobs took over a federal post to demand the government not shut them off if the free shit they were getting like cattle feed, and land grabbing.

[cubby]

Ok I’ll put it another way.


The civil rights movement people protested and were jailed. Because the wrongs I’ve society as a whole were more important than compromising with those that had power.

Personally I wish it would happen more. I rather 1 or a handful protesting and sacrificing who can articulate for those I disagree with vs a general population who think all their politicians are corrupt and they have to sacrifice and take extreme measures.

Before you say it no they didn’t do this in the 60s. That’s because people who had dogs set on them fire hoses shot at them. Didn’t have any representation or voice otherwise.


As I said I think we agree this is stupid and this issue doesn’t rise to that need, but keep in mind this is where a bunch a right wing nut jobs took over a federal post to demand the government not shut them off if the free shit they were getting like cattle feed, and land grabbing.

I think you're definitely making good points overall about our system and how protesting has been effective in making changes in the past, on important issues. And we definitely agree that this particular issue doesn't rise to the need (good phrase btw). And lol re the nut jobs in Eastern Oregon.

[Themius]

That's how democracy works, or at times doesn't compromise on everything shouldn't be required especially to go along with even the majority just because.

Again I totally disagree with these Republicans on the issues, but if these were Democrats like in Texas I would say I'd support it. Although that had to do with women having control over their rights concerning abortion.

There is an issue here which is why this argument doesn’t perfectly work

Your argument is fine, except it falls apart due to the republicans the last time this happened. Taking refuge with white nationalist militias and threatening the United States government with violence. Being that the fbi views these groups as a major domestic terror threat and they’ve proven as much is problematic. The fact they went as far to be traitors...and literal white nationalists... they have no legs.

[Kellhound]

The idea that you need to vote on whether people should be helped after severe flooding or not is amazing.

That's because the legislators control the purse strings. The governor can (and has) release some money under their discretion, but most cases of spending limited budget money has to be properly approved.

[Doctor Amadeus]

I think you're definitely making good points overall about our system and how protesting has been effective in making changes in the past, on important issues. And we definitely agree that this particular issue doesn't rise to the need (good phrase btw). And lol re the nut jobs in Eastern Oregon.

Yep exactly. I wasn’t trying to be combative or like someone else trying to fence sit.

These people are idiots but unfortunately if they don’t do what they do. Who they represent might do something stupid again.

- - - Updated - - -

There is an issue here which is why this argument doesn’t perfectly work

Your argument is fine, except it falls apart due to the republicans the last time this happened. Taking refuge with white nationalist militias and threatening the United States government with violence. Being that the fbi views these groups as a major domestic terror threat and they’ve proven as much is problematic. The fact they went as far to be traitors...and literal white nationalists... they have no legs.

I see you’re point and that needs to be highlighted here that is who they represent.

[Edge-]

https://www.oregonlive.com/news/2020...ute-deals.html

Apparently we're now at day 6 with Republican Senators AWOL. In most business, failing to show up to your job without a valid reason for 6 days straight is grounds to be fired immediatley.

[Stormdash]

Ahh yes, as if the GOP does not have a long history of doing exactly this. They can simply vote against the bill if they do not like it and possibly not continue the practice of doing this. But you know, they project like motherfuckers and will continue to do these things. Hilarious to see how they act when their tactics get used on them.

Everybody has a history of doing that, although the GOP is usually much more forthright about acknowledging when it's a bargaining tactic for horse-trading. "Marrying something everyone agrees to to things that are political suicide for you just so we can describe you as mean awful people in our press hits" is a specific tactic pretty unique to the political left.