New level requirements for Legacy raids

[Amnaught]

Hi folks.

If you all check your armory in the Dungeons & Raids tab, you can, at time of writing at least, see the new level requirements for SOME of the old raids. Listed in current level order, they are:

20
Black Temple
Ulduar

25
Firelands

35
Emerald Nightmare
Trial of Valor
Nighthold
Tomb of Sargeras

68
Karazhan

Rest of the raids, including Antorus, are listed at their current level requirements.

If this holds true, how would you feel about this? Unlocking raids at low levels with the new scaling system seems a bit weird to me.

This is an error.

Karazhan at 68? The max will be 60, so, doubt. Everything is going to scale from 10-50, I see no reason raids wouldnt all be locked to the same level, be that 50 or something lower.

[Yarathir]

This would be the 'best' solution, but the vocal minority with their army of alts would never allow it.

Why would it be the 'best' solution?

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This is an error.

Karazhan at 68? The max will be 60, so, doubt. Everything is going to scale from 10-50, I see no reason raids wouldnt all be locked to the same level, be that 50 or something lower.

It just means Karazhan was unchanged. Karazhan currently can be entered at 68.

And there's no indication that raids will auto-scale up to 50 and in fact Blizzard has insisted nothing will really change in our ability to farm old raids.

[MrLachyG]

Obviously subject to change, but I'm not really sure what the intent is with these levels. Like, from what we can glean...

Van - ??
BC - 20
WotLK - 20
Cata - 25
MoP - ??
WoD - ??
Leg - 35
BfA - ??

...there isn't a lot of rhyme or reason here. Maybe they're grouped like the current leveling spread? So maybe MoP will be 25, WoD will be 30, and BfA will be 40.

I kind of figured they'd lump all legacy raids into the 35-40 range, with BfA's raids being lowered to join them once SL actually launches.

they also have all the Vanilla raids at level 50. clearly something is going on. I thought the same as you, that they would just lump it in to the same level group but that might affect the twinkers. I would say that Vanilla will be level 10, BC/Wrath level 20, Cata & MoP level 25, WoD & Legion level 35 and BfA will be 45

[Thage]

Kara is 68? Or is that the dungeon version?

Karazhan can be entered at 68 on live. Seeing as the new level cap in Shadowlands is 60, with 120 players scaling to level 50 (and Chromie Time taking you from the starting zone experience to 50 based on which expansion content you decide to level through), I don't think Kara's been updated yet.

As for the OP, that makes sense when you scale 120 levels down to 50. Interestingly, I wonder how this will impact the Starter Edition for lapsed subs and trial accounts. Seems like they're going to have all of what's currently 1-80 content available which is a huge jump up in available content for starter edition/trial players.

[Amnaught]

And there's no indication that raids will auto-scale up to 50 and in fact Blizzard has insisted nothing will really change in our ability to farm old raids.

Youll be able to solo level 50 raids at level 60.

[VinceVega]

That does not make sense. You can level 1-50 with only start and BC. Why would i get access to raid when i just started Hellfire pen.?

I am pretty sure you will get every raid at 50 thats that.
They have no real gameplay value anymore. So the loot does not matter unless you put an XP Stop into it at 50.

In this case it is not bad because you can pretend you are in each expansion and play these raids "nearly" with the intended powerlevel.

[yamix]

I think they'll make sure if you can comfortably solo a raid now, it will still be possible for you post squish.

[Makorus]

The new leveling system and the level squish are two independent things, so I dont know why people act like just because you can do a whole expansion from 10-50, the raids also have to scale to 50.

[Soon-TM]

Youll be able to solo level 50 raids at level 60.

As long as this is actually happening, I don't care for the rest. Xmog runs are one of my favourite pastimes these days.

[Yarathir]

The new leveling system and the level squish are two independent things, so I dont know why people act like just because you can do a whole expansion from 10-50, the raids also have to scale to 50.

This. They pair together, but they aren't actually co-dependent.

[Kleym]

I just noticed this today and checked info about this on several wow news website. Nothing except here. Why does anybody is talking about this ?

[Eurhetemec]

This. They pair together, but they aren't actually co-dependent.

I think the big mistake a lot of people are making here is assuming raids will scale down BEFORE 50.

That basically contradicts what Blizzard have said. They've said, when you're in Chromie Time, i.e. leveling through an expansion, stuff scales with you. That means a raid would be full of terrifying high-damage elites and bosses who are two levels higher than you during the whole of 10-50.

When you hit 50, the content all scales down. It doesn't stay at 50 (I guess BfA might, but their example was MoP I believe, and they said it would scale down to 30 or 35).

That's what we're looking at here. No-one should be expecting to do this content WHILST LEVELING. You'll need to get to 50, and then it'll scale down. This is what Blizzard have said.

[Onikaroshi]

Youll be able to solo level 50 raids at level 60.

I mean, they'd have to change the legacy loot system, currently it's 11 levels to trigger legacy.

But the reason for the raids levels is because each expansion actually does have a level range, like it does now. And you can actually go out and level like that if you want, without chromie time.

[Eurhetemec]

And you can actually go out and level like that if you want, without chromie time.

Is that actually confirmed?

My impression was that you didn't unlock leaving Chromie Time until you hit 50, when you automatically do. Maybe that's just new players.

[Onikaroshi]

Is that actually confirmed?

My impression was that you didn't unlock leaving Chromie Time until you hit 50, when you automatically do. Maybe that's just new players.

New players HAVE to level through BfA, others get a choice. They said during blizzcon you can even go out and level like before.

[CrawlFromThePit]

It feels annoying that say 1-2lvls doesn't feel that powerful now compared to 1-2 lvls in say Classic.

That may not be the case since there is no stats squish announced in Shadowlands, we carry the same stats but only the level lowers. Yes, lvl 50 tanks with 1m hp.

[Eurhetemec]

New players HAVE to level through BfA, others get a choice. They said during blizzcon you can even go out and level like before.

I've been trying to find a quote which supports there being an alternative to Chromie Time beyond just playing through the Vanilla world, and I'm not seeing any.

I mean, Blizzard explain the level squish and post-squish leveling at some length here and they only say you can pick Vanilla or an expansion, not that you can opt out of Chromie Time entirely but not do Vanilla: https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2...t-level-squash

So I think your choices will actually be:

A) Do Vanilla, where everything will scale 10-50 until you are 50.

B) Do Chromie Time, where everything will scale 10-50, until you are 50.

And if you're new, there will be no choice, you'll just do the new intro 1-10, then 10-50 you'll do Chromie Time BfA.

[Onikaroshi]

That may not be the case since there is no stats squish announced in Shadowlands, we carry the same stats but only the level lowers. Yes, lvl 50 tanks with 1m hp.

Not really a problem, just numbers.

At least the level squish has a reason, better ability to leveling curve. After the WoD squish no further stat squishes have any basis in reason beyond "durr, it feels bad"

[Eurhetemec]

Not really a problem, just numbers.

At least the level squish has a reason, better ability to leveling curve. After the WoD squish no further stat squishes have any basis in reason beyond "durr, it feels bad"

Blizzard haven't suggested they won't squish stats along with levels, AFAIK. So assuming they won't is setting yourself up for weird disappointment. They almost certainly will.

[Onikaroshi]

I've been trying to find a quote which supports there being an alternative to Chromie Time beyond just playing through the Vanilla world, and I'm not seeing any.

I mean, Blizzard explain the level squish and post-squish leveling at some length here and they only say you can pick Vanilla or an expansion, not that you can opt out of Chromie Time entirely but not do Vanilla: https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2...t-level-squash

So I think your choices will actually be:

A) Do Vanilla, where everything will scale 10-50 until you are 50.

B) Do Chromie Time, where everything will scale 10-50, until you are 50.

And if you're new, there will be no choice, you'll just do the new intro 1-10, then 10-50 you'll do Chromie Time BfA.

It was during the what's next panel so you'd have to be able to go back and watch that. Basically they were talking about the "warchief shuffle" and how the chromie time gets rid of that and said something about how you can forgo it all together and level through the "warchief shuffle". Each expansion will still have a set level cap, so it makes sense.

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Blizzard haven't suggested they won't squish stats along with levels, AFAIK. So assuming they won't is setting yourself up for weird disappointment. They almost certainly will.

They already said there wouldn't be a stat squish going along with this, also at blizzcon.