Covenants will ruin Shadowlands.

[Captain Marvel]

That's why there should be zero player power tied to the system.

It should be a purely cosmetic/story choice.


As a Death Knight I obviously want to pick the death themed Covenant because the Armor looks sick and it will fit a DK story wise.

But what happens when the Fae fairy faction ends up being 20% dps over? Even as a "casual" Heroic raider I will feel like I want to switch.

Except there is no way that will happen. Most likely differences will be less than 5%. If you want to get your panties in a wad because your icy-veins copy build isn't pretty enough for you, that's on you.

Make a choice.

[Popastique]

Unless they've done a complete 180 on Covenant design since the reveal(lol nope). Then they will be the Azerite of Shadowlands.

We all know Blizzard is absolutely awful at balancing. Locking player power behind a choice that should be for cosmetic and story purposes is absolutely moronic.

There will be a BEST Covenant ability for your spec/class. It will be the best by a long margin. There will also be an absolute worst.

Then - nerfs and buffs will happen and the pendulum will swing again. But Blizzard has already said they're going to make it extremely hard to switch Covenants.

Why can't these morons open their eyes?

Alpha hasn't even began. Lolz.

[Queen of Hamsters]

Okidoki, then I guess Shadowlands is ruined.

[DemonDays]

Alpha hasn't even began. Lolz.

Was waiting for this one.

Just wait for Alpha.
Dude it's just Alpha, wait for Beta.
Come on dude the game just launched, give them time.
Just wait for x.1 dude they'll fix it.
They said they'll fix it next expansion.

The cycle never ends with you fanboys, does it?

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Except there is no way that will happen. Most likely differences will be less than 5%. If you want to get your panties in a wad because your icy-veins copy build isn't pretty enough for you, that's on you.

Make a choice.

Yeah because Blizzard has always been so amazing at balancing things hey? Everything is always within 5% of eachother?

There is definitely not talents that haven't been selected by any players for the entirety of BfA is there?

[styil]

Alpha hasn't even began. Lolz.

Unless Blizzard plans to overhaul the system and release Shadowlands in 2022, what you see is generally what you get.

[SirCowdog]

My fun > everything else so why should I care.

While you're partly correct, there are times when the fun of the group of friends you play with takes precedent. Sometimes it's worth making a sacrifice to ensure the rest of the group gets ahead.

It's a tough balance to strike. Sometimes what you said is 100% the way to go. Other times it's not. Hopefully Blizzard is smart enough about covenants to let both conditions be satisfied to some degree.

[Popastique]

Was waiting for this one.

Just wait for Alpha.
Dude it's just Alpha, wait for Beta.
Come on dude the game just launched, give them time.
Just wait for x.1 dude they'll fix it.
They said they'll fix it next expansion.

The cycle never ends with you fanboys, does it?

Hate it all you want, until it gets released - there is no use arguing about it. Better - provide feedback in a calm manner when alpa/beta goes live.

- - - Updated - - -

Unless Blizzard plans to overhaul the system and release Shadowlands in 2022, what you see is generally what you get.

That is a pretty big *Unless*, and i am gonna wait for the final version of that system - or provide feedback on that system if i get access to alpha/beta and the system proves to be disbalanced.

[callipygoustp]

What and see guys! Patience has proven to be justified in the past. Right? Riiight.

I think we're looking at a design that is going to result in some of the worst balance EVER in the game.

[Hitei]

While you're partly correct, there are times when the fun of the group of friends you play with takes precedent. Sometimes it's worth making a sacrifice to ensure the rest of the group gets ahead.

It's a tough balance to strike. Sometimes what you said is 100% the way to go. Other times it's not. Hopefully Blizzard is smart enough about covenants to let both conditions be satisfied to some degree.

You'd have to have a pretty shitty group of friends for them to suddenly not have fun because your group is doing 0.1% less DPS because you are doing 2% less DPS than you could be with a different covenant.

[Eurhetemec]

Yeah because Blizzard has always been so amazing at balancing things hey? Everything is always within 5% of eachother?

There is definitely not talents that haven't been selected by any players for the entirety of BfA is there?

You know he's right. None of these traits looks like anywhere near a 5% advantage, overall. You're getting terribly upset about what is going to be, ultimately, a pretty minor choice that most people who actually play WoW, rather posting on the forums or whatever, will make based on "What gives the coolest armour?".

If you're some sort of bleeding-edge Mythic raider, or pushing high keys on M+, do tell me, but I'm guessing you're neither of those things, and it looks like you're really super-mad that one choice might make your character very slightly better at something than another choice. I can't even imagine how much you must hate talents.

[Elbob]

Was waiting for this one.

Just wait for Alpha.
Dude it's just Alpha, wait for Beta.
Come on dude the game just launched, give them time.
Just wait for x.1 dude they'll fix it.
They said they'll fix it next expansion.

The cycle never ends with you fanboys, does it?

- - - Updated - - -



Yeah because Blizzard has always been so amazing at balancing things hey? Everything is always within 5% of eachother?

There is definitely not talents that haven't been selected by any players for the entirety of BfA is there?

man look at that straw man. Things get balanced all the time, yes some things dont but screeching about imbalanced covenant abilities before they have ALPHA NUMBERS to even balance is hilarious. I guess they should never make any system, all classes should be combined into 1 with 3 roles DPS Healer and Tank so that way everyone can have the same spells and we never need to worry about 1 player having an advantage.

It has nothing to do with fanboying(which does exist im not denying this) but you can't scream at abilities that aren't even testable yet. Looking at the DK abilities you claim 1 is a MUST HAVE for blood but I look at them and honestly don't know what you are talking about.
They are:
1) aoe dmg reduction/dmg boost
2) Single target dmg reduction with high uptime
3) aoe dmg/resource gain + some avoidance
4) a utility dmg/gripping mechanic

How 1 of these is MUST HAVE is beyond me. They all do mediocre dmg at best (first one is clearly an outlier being 2nd in single target and highest on aoe) but the effective dps of all these abilities is terrible at these numbers and not even worth casting outside the utility. but hey that 1 spell that is 2% of your overall dmg vs .5% HUUUGE difference

[Redroniksre]

Was waiting for this one.

Just wait for Alpha.
Dude it's just Alpha, wait for Beta.
Come on dude the game just launched, give them time.
Just wait for x.1 dude they'll fix it.
They said they'll fix it next expansion.

The cycle never ends with you fanboys, does it?

- - - Updated - - -



Yeah because Blizzard has always been so amazing at balancing things hey? Everything is always within 5% of eachother?

There is definitely not talents that haven't been selected by any players for the entirety of BfA is there?

Dude, literally just wait to get your hands on it, or for someone to. They could of just been like "Covenants!" and you would probably immediately start complaining. Once people can get in depth with it, see how it works, how hard to grind/switch, then you can complain. If you want to state worries, then sure, but to say it will ruin Shadowlands? You don't know anything.

[Nerovar]

it looks like you're really super-mad that one choice might make your character very slightly better at something than another choice. I can't even imagine how much you must hate talents.

What an obnoxiously smug response. There's a slight different between switching talents and switching covenants though.

[Kithelle]

I'm just going to pick whatever armor I like best and tell my guild(if they qq about it) to suck a fat one. If the time comes and we wipe because MY damage is too low I might apologize, but considering we're not some tryhard top100 guild I highly doubt that'll ever happen.

My fun > everything else so why should I care.

Trouble is most players act like they're the 1% and getting the bestest ability is crucial, but most players aren't in the 1%. I have a lot of characters and personally I'm going to choose the covenant by which ability best suits each character, I could care less about squeezing a few extra deeps.

[SirCowdog]

You'd have to have a pretty shitty group of friends for them to suddenly not have fun because your group is doing 0.1% less DPS because you are doing 2% less DPS than you could be with a different covenant.

That really depends. Are you and all your friends competitive? Are you on your 50th attempt of a boss and it's no longer fun to just screw around and fail?

Fun is subjective. Don't be so quick to assume people are shitty friends just because they aren't YOUR kind of friends. :/

[Donald Hellscream]

Pvp will ruin Shadowlands or maybe pet battles will ruin Shadowlands.

Seriously is there anything that people won't claim is going to ruin Shadowlands.

[Eurhetemec]

What an obnoxiously smug response. There's a slight different between switching talents and switching covenants though.

You saying I'm wrong? Because I notice you're not saying that.

This dude is at Kylo Ren levels of burning rage over abilities that give him like a 2.1% advantage over another at one thing his character can do. I don't think I'm the obnoxious one though perhaps it is hard not to be a little smug in the face of such impotent nerd rage.

[Nerovar]

Trouble is most players act like they're the 1% and getting the bestest ability is crucial, but most players aren't in the 1%. I have a lot of characters and personally I'm going to choose the covenant by which ability best suits each character, I could care less about squeezing a few extra deeps.

So you cannot care about performance at all if you're not among the top 1%? How is that an argument? And again: this is not about "a few extra deeps". There are very obvious BiS choices that give you a significant advantage depending on the content you want to play. People shouldn't have to shoot themselves in the foot in terms of performance because they want a certain aesthetic for their character and neither should players have to go for an aesthetic they don't like just because the benefits tied to those aesthetics are too good to ignore.

You saying I'm wrong? Because I notice you're not saying that.

This dude is at Kylo Ren levels of burning rage over abilities that give him like a 2.1% advantage over another at one thing his character can do. I don't think I'm the obnoxious one though perhaps it is hard not to be a little smug in the face of such impotent nerd rage.

Of course you're wrong. You're misrepresenting this system by saying it will only make a small difference, you're making very strange comments implying that you cannot care about performance if you're not a very high end player and you're drawing comparisons that simply make no sense whatsoever.

[Accendor]

You how this game operates either you play it or you don't. Just pick what you like and deal with it, or don't pick and wait for the "pendulum"....

They should make the choice permanent imo, no switching...

So that I need to reroll after every single balancing change? No thanks

[Eurhetemec]

That really depends. Are you and all your friends competitive? Are you on your 50th attempt of a boss and just want to get past it?

Fun is subjective. Don't be so quick to assume people are shitty friends just because they aren't YOUR kind of friends. :/

Dude, they would have to be shitty friends, if they were mad because one person in a raid of 20 people was doing 2% less damage than they could. Either that or they'd have to be incredibly bad at maths. If you can't get past a boss because a SINGLE DPS from over a dozen DPS is doing 100% damage, not 102%, and you're blaming that DPS, you're not just a shitty friend, you're truly clueless at WoW, terrible at maths, and probably at life. I mean that is sad... seriously sad.

I mean, can you imagine? 50 attempts of fail and people are made at a single DPSer doing 2% less damage. Can you even calculate how small of a difference that is? Even you got past the boss one time with the "right" talent, it would be luck, not skill, that got you there, because sort of variation in DPS is much smaller than that which might be caused by lag, or a dude being slightly slow, or fat-fingering the wrong ability or whatever, or standing in the bad slightly too long, preventing a healer from doing damage.