Mega-Thread: Democratic 2020 Primaries

[Flower Milk]

Joe Biden just said "Because we cannot get re-elected, we cannot win this re-election, excuse me, we can only re-elect Donald Trump" at his rally

https://twitter.com/DigitalLeft/stat...63839668920322

But it's just his stutter guys, it's fine, he's fine, everything is fine. Just keep ignoring stuff like this and I'm sure we will beat Trump in November. It's not like he does stuff like this every day or anything, it's fine.

[GreenGoldSharpie]

So if he won't do something for you because you won't do something for him, and you won't do something for him because he won't do something for you, who has to blink first before someone caves? Is it not in the best interest of one group in this equation to push the other group to make the move?

You missed the point. Everyone has a limited amount of time and money. I'm certainly not willing to see my concerns tied to the progressive wing of the Democratic Party when it has an obvious ceiling and has a tendency to not show up to vote.

That's just silly. It's bad politics. More importantly, I feel it's even worse to politically tie yourself to someone who is demonstrating themselves to be an unreliable ally when we're in the situation we're in. This isn't an eye for an eye or out of spite. It's an acknowledgement of what's current going on and prioritizing mu own political goals. Convincing Bernie fans to vote or championing their goals when they won't reciprocate is pretty low on my list right now is all.

[Flower Milk]

You missed the point. Everyone has a limited amount of time and money. I'm certainly not willing to see my concerns tied to the progressive wing of the Democratic Party when it has an obvious ceiling and has a tendency to not show up to vote.

That's just silly. It's bad politics. More importantly, I feel it's even worse to politically tie yourself to someone who is demonstrating themselves to be an unreliable ally when we're in the situation we're in. This isn't an eye for an eye or out of spite. It's an acknowledgement of what's current going on and prioritizing mu own political goals. Convincing Bernie fans to vote or championing their goals when they won't reciprocate is pretty low on my list right now is all.

Millions of people have voted for Bernie Sanders so far. Not as many as Joe Biden, but there is no way to win in the general without those votes. What voters do you plan on picking up in the general to vote for Biden, the Independent voters who don't support him, or the 95% of Republicans who support Trump? Ignore the millions of progressive voters at your own peril.

[Grapemask]

You missed the point. Everyone has a limited amount of time and money. I'm certainly not willing to see my concerns tied to the progressive wing of the Democratic Party when it has an obvious ceiling and has a tendency to not show up to vote.

From their perspective, the non-progressive wing has a ceiling of "being dead" when healthcare and climate continue on the path that they will with candidates that aren't interested in the kind of change we need.

[Smitzelplix]

Joe Biden just said "Because we cannot get re-elected, we cannot win this re-election, excuse me, we can only re-elect Donald Trump" at his rally

https://twitter.com/DigitalLeft/stat...63839668920322

But it's just his stutter guys, it's fine, he's fine, everything is fine. Just keep ignoring stuff like this and I'm sure we will beat Trump in November. It's not like he does stuff like this every day or anything, it's fine.

You're video link deliberately cuts off some of the things Biden was saying. It's still pretty bad, but what he was trying to say and finally says at the end is that if we keep doing this circular firing squad then that's what will reelect Trump. He's trying to say that there has to be a positive campaign.

https://twitter.com/BernieWon2016/st...48782117552129

[PACOX]

Must be really nice to have the luxury to take that risk.

Most of the people who can't afford a Trump presidency can't afford it Biden one either.

[Flower Milk]

You're video link deliberately cuts off some of the things Biden was saying. It's still pretty bad, but what he was trying to say and finally says at the end is that if we keep doing this circular firing squad then that's what will reelect Trump. He's trying to say that there has to be a positive campaign.

https://twitter.com/BernieWon2016/st...48782117552129

And he said "Obiden Bama Democrat" right before that.

[GreenGoldSharpie]

From their perspective, the non-progressive wing has a ceiling of "being dead" when healthcare and climate continue on the path that they will with candidates that aren't interested in the kind of change we need.

Then they should have convinced more people to vote for their guy, huh?

Seriously, this amounts to a temper tantrum. Do what everyone else has had to do and mainstream your ideas to the point where they're, at the very least, a political plank in one of the two major parties. Here's a hint, though: it's going to take more than a geriatric savior and screaming at blue checkmarks on twitter.

[Smitzelplix]

And he said "Obiden Bama Democrat" right before that.

Oh I know Biden isn't doing well, that's why Bernie is my first choice between the two, but if Biden does win the primary I'll vote for him. There's no way I won't vote or vote Republican. I rather have Democrat brand dementia than Republican brand dementia if that's what this race ends up being.

[NM 156]

If america is going to continue its decline, at least we will get to see Biden "debate" Trump. I'd say there is a pretty good chance his dementia will get so bad he'll outright tell people to vote for trump in the middle of the debate.

[Flower Milk]

Oh I know Biden isn't doing well, that's why Bernie is my first choice between the two, but if Biden does win the primary I'll vote for him. There's no way I won't vote or vote Republican. I rather have Democrat brand dementia than Republican brand dementia if that's what this race ends up being.

I wish I could agree but I think it's completely irresponsible to even let a guy with dementia run. If I were a Republican I'd be screaming at the top of my lungs to other Republicans that we can't let Trump be the nominee because he has dementia. I'm leaving the party because I don't trust the Democratic Party/majority of Democratic voters anymore if they think a guy with dementia is our best shot at beating Trump.

It's absolutely insane to me that this is where we are now. We waited 4 whole years to finally take a shot at the worst president in history, and this is what we get stuck with. We are doomed.

[PACOX]

Yeah, some foreign communist ranting about how Biden is too Hindu friendly as though Americans give a shit one way or the other is exactly what I'm referring to as pretty funny.

Being friend with Modi to be 'Hindu friendly' is like hiring someone from the Taliban to be 'Muslim friendly'.

[Levelfive]

Most of the people who can't afford a Trump presidency can't afford it Biden one either.

Which people are those, exactly?

- - - Updated - - -

Oh I know Biden isn't doing well, that's why Bernie is my first choice between the two, but if Biden does win the primary I'll vote for him. There's no way I won't vote or vote Republican. I rather have Democrat brand dementia than Republican brand dementia if that's what this race ends up being.

It's not a rousing slogan, but it may have to do.

[Vash The Stampede]

Politics in the US is the act of building a coalition. it's transactional.

I'm not a patient person when it comes to what's the right thing to do.

If you won't help me I won't help you.

I didn't say that.

You don't show up to vote you're wholly irrelevant to me.

That's a terrible way of thinking.

I'm not going to give up my very limited time and my money towards the causes of people don't do the same for me. Make up your mind soon if you want anything you claim to desire in the near future because hitching your goals to a politician with a ceiling that doesn't even hit the plurality mark inside the party he's running to lead isn't getting you anywhere, and your attitude is not winning you any friends.

America is the only first world country not to have Universal Health Care, and Joe Biden will continue this deadly tradition for possibly 8 years. If Biden wins this election then our only hope for Universal Health Care is from the Republicans, which at that point we might as well start a 3rd party. But if Trump wins then we have another chance in 2024 to get Universal Health Care. The way I look at it, we either have 4 years of people dying from a lack of healthcare from Trump, or 8 years with Biden. The only way to get zero deaths is to go Bernie Sanders.

You say healthcare for all is important for you, but you're planning on not voting for Biden if he turns out to be the nominee.

I don't see how voting for Biden is going to save lives.

So by not voting for Biden if he's the nominee, not only will there be no chance of healthcare for all, but what progress that has been done by the ACA will be wiped out as well and millions will lose their access to insurance and healthcare. Also the longer Trump is in office the more chances that he has to fill the Supreme Court with more people that will make sure any progressive agenda in the future never gets done.

The ACA was a bandaid fix for our healthcare system, but right now it's a crutch. ACA has to be removed in favor of a Universal Health Care system. By fixing ACA we can doom ourselves for decades of a healthcare system that still leaves many people to avoid healthcare due to costs, and financially crippled by healthcare costs. We can see the effects of our current system on the coronavirus where people avoid treatment and if they do seek it then they're left with a bill in the thousands.

[PACOX]

Which people are those, exactly?

Working class individuals.

You can literally come up with dozen of minorities groups that Biden has thrown under the bus with his politics and policies.

I guess those people do not matter because they aren't in the mainstream views of punditry.

[mvaliz]

You think I don't wonder about some of you Biden supporters here that maybe Bloomberg paid you off to promote Biden? Keep in mind I don't resort to Ad hominem attacks, I just point out the shittiness that is Biden.

Your first sentence IS a double Ad-Hominem attack, right after you said you don't resort to Ad Hominem attacks. You first accuse me of being a "Biden Supporter" (more on that later) and then imply that I'm being paid by Bloomberg. Putting a question mark at the end doesn't make it any less of an Ad-Hominem attack, and you know that.

And, in good humor, goddess do I wish I would be paid for discussing things on these forums! I'm currently wrestling with leaving these as I'm wasting too much time here arguing with no-names instead of pursuing my actual career... >_<

Now...as for this nugget of joy:

You act as if Sanders supporters are the worse thing, but you may want to look at a mirror once in a while.

Before I look at my own reflection, how about you look at my own reflection... as in my posting history, particularly my recent arguments with @cubby (linking you here Cubby so you can corroborate) leading to my previous ban, and how I put that hypocrite, Elgefuckwhatever, on ignore - because he kept toxicly accusing me of being a "Bernie Bros", just like you're accusing me of being a "Biden Supporter". In fact, I've gone out of my way to defend Bernie Supporters (I've refused to use the term "Bernie Bros" as I hate labels due to connotations they bring) and call out toxicity on the other side (case in point, my arguments with that perpetual liar, Estrogenlogical, or whatever he calls himself) I have NEVER acted like Bernie Supporters are the worst thing... far from it. What you responded to wasn't my opinion about Bernie Supporters, it was my opinion about YOU, which - in my book - you do not represent a Bernie Supporter as Bernie himself asked his supporters to stop it with the personal attacks, but you clearly do not heed that.

My vote order I've stated MANY times on this forum is as follows:

1) Warren
2) Bernie Sanders
3) Buttigege
4) Biden

Biden is the LAST one I wanted... but unlike you, it's not because I find him "Bad", it's that he simply doesn't pursue the full extent of progressive goals I wish for... he'll be just Obama-era, and I happily voted for Obama because Obama is, was, and always will be a step closer to the progressive goals Bernie and Warren have been pitching for over a Republican agenda.

My primary hasn't come up yet, and I'm gladly going to be voting for Bernie over Biden... but if Biden ends up the lead ticket, I realize my vote for Biden wouldn't be a vote for HIS ideals and goals - my vote for him will merely be a at-the-moment required stepping-stone for getting towards a Progressive values in future later.

If you're really a Bernie supporter, you of all people should acknowledge the progress we've made since 2016. Bernie's concept of "Medicare for All" was just ridiculed... and in a mere 4 years later, it's literally the hottest topic button of the entire election. Sure, we would all love change to happen overnight - but it doesn't always work that way. And when it doesn't work that way, we take what wins we can, and plan for tomorrow.

Women's suffrage wasn't an overnight deal

Slaves being freed wasn't a spontaneous idea of Abraham Lincoln one day.

These ideals started years ago - and I wish to continue to push them, even if it takes me 1 step of progress towards it with Biden instead of the 20-yard leap forward it would've given us with Bernie/Warren - I'll take that 1 single step over fumbling backwards 40 yards with Dumbass Dump.
[Infraction]

[PACOX]

When moderates go mask off and wonder why 'any Democrat' is a hard pill for progressives and independents to swallow

https://twitter.com/i/status/1236650996979372032

[Machismo]

Hard to take someone seriously when they're so full of it.

You cried about your positions. You cried about people giving you shit. You said you were "getting out" and checking out of politics. You originally said you were unregistering as a Democrat which has now become you doing that only if Biden beats Bernie. You said you don't care if Biden wins. You said you wanted people to leave you alone and that you were "so tired of this crap."

And yet, here you are. I hope people doubt your sincerity. You exist now to only attack Biden and, I guess, anyone that supports him. You are what you hate.

- - - Updated - - -


Only if you assume "perfectly reasonable" also means "pathetically petulant."

Well, it is petulant, but it's still a reasonable step to take if they don't actually support the other candidate. Their priorities just happen to be different. Is it about ideological purity, or getting rid of Trump?

[Spectral]

I think you missed the part where is was a modi supporter and a nationalist for muslim outreach
Love bombing the middle east so much that that flew over your head?

How many people in the relevant electoral states do you think care about what the views of some obscure Biden campaigner are vis a vis internecine conflicts between foreign creeds half a world away? This is the kind of thing that's important to very online leftist activists that pretty much no one in Grand Rapids, Minnesota gives a solitary shit about.

[Flower Milk]

How many people in the relevant electoral states do you think care about what the views of some obscure Biden campaigner are vis a vis internecine conflicts between foreign creeds half a world away? This is the kind of thing that's important to very online leftist activists that pretty much no one in Grand Rapids, Minnesota gives a solitary shit about.

My Muslim neighbors definitely care.