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  1. #261
    Titan Orby's Avatar
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    Probably will, probably wont, I just don't want another time sink azerite or artifact system, let me be able to achieve something without some endless grind please, pretty please.

    Bring back single items, not 5 variations of said item, I wanna find my BiS I wanna get my BiS and feel I achieved something, I don;t wanna get my BiS and get 1 of 5 variants and realise I gotta go back there until I get the best version of said variant.

    I wanna reach a point where I feel I can say 'hey I completed everything I need until the next patch, I can go roll and alt, do PVP, or farm mounts from old dungeons', not an endless grind that is basically put on a roll function.

    WoW is too much investment for me now. Unless I am either unemployed or a WoW streamer I don;t see myself getting half of the stuff they are implementing done. I never had this problem in Vanilla, TBC or WotLK. Sure you had dailies but that was like a 15 - 20 minute job. I remember in TBC doing my Skettis and Orgrilla quests done so fast that I had more time to do something else.
    Last edited by Orby; 2020-03-08 at 08:38 PM.

  2. #262
    Quote Originally Posted by Stormspellz View Post
    looks at corruption....ya 5% at best. I got a bridge to sell you.
    Me: all these apples, while different will have relatively the same amount of nutritional value.

    You: whatever shill, look at the oranges! They are OP!

  3. #263
    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Marvel View Post
    Me: all these apples, while different will have relatively the same amount of nutritional value.

    You: whatever shill, look at the oranges! They are OP!
    You: everything will be ok because blizz can do no wrong and never has had wildly ridiculous balancing problems

  4. #264
    I am Murloc! FlubberPuddy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stormspellz View Post
    You: everything will be ok because blizz can do no wrong and never has had wildly ridiculous balancing problems
    Still waiting on you to prove (since we have the information that so many are discussing) which is the 4 mage abilities absolutely blows the shit out of the others and how the others are absolute crap.

    You can do it with DK abilities too since we know those as well.

    This challenge goes to anyone who thinks any of the shown covenant abilities are absolute best over the others for Mage or DK, as they keep trying to claim.

  5. #265
    Herald of the Titans Advent's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orby View Post
    Probably will, probably wont, I just don't want another time sink azerite or artifact system, let me be able to achieve something without some endless grind please, pretty please.

    Bring back single items, not 5 variations of said item, I wanna find my BiS I wanna get my BiS and feel I achieved something, I don;t wanna get my BiS and get 1 of 5 variants and realise I gotta go back there until I get the best version of said variant.

    I wanna reach a point where I feel I can say 'hey I completed everything I need until the next patch, I can go roll and alt, do PVP, or farm mounts from old dungeons', not an endless grind that is basically put on a roll function.

    WoW is too much investment for me now. Unless I am either unemployed or a WoW streamer I don;t see myself getting half of the stuff they are implementing done. I never had this problem in Vanilla, TBC or WotLK. Sure you had dailies but that was like a 15 - 20 minute job. I remember in TBC doing my Skettis and Orgrilla quests done so fast that I had more time to do something else.
    I cannot stress how much of this is simply a mindset issue. No sane person sees the titanforge system as a detriment because they didn't get the best item drop. It's supposed to be a bonus, not the expected outcome.

    You aren't supposed to be able to finish an MMO, as I see it. That was the ultimate failing of expansions past. Nothing bores me more than finishing Ogri'la or Skettis dailies and having nothing left to do for the day.

  6. #266
    The Lightbringer
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    Quote Originally Posted by Popastique View Post
    Alpha hasn't even began. Lolz.
    This attitude has already become a local meme. Shame on you. Its completely okay to be skeptic about Shadowlands given how Alpaha/Beta BFA went (basically Blizzard ignored all feedback).

    Blizzard have already defined how Shadowlands meant to be played.

    Alpha and Beta are just bug and balance test, so if Shadowlands features and class design would suck on alpha, then make no mistake - 99% of design problems would be kept in Beta, on Release and maybe even in 9.3 patch.

    We will get all important answers really soon.

  7. #267
    Bloodsail Admiral Sharby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Advent View Post
    I cannot stress how much of this is simply a mindset issue. No sane person sees the titanforge system as a detriment because they didn't get the best item drop. It's supposed to be a bonus, not the expected outcome.

    You aren't supposed to be able to finish an MMO, as I see it. That was the ultimate failing of expansions past. Nothing bores me more than finishing Ogri'la or Skettis dailies and having nothing left to do for the day.


    The idea that one isn't supposed to ever reach their goal in an MMO is something players shouldn't accept but do becasue its the norm. I feel like its only an issue because Blizzard doesn't put any engaging content that is outside the gear ladder, though this is changing, first we got mage Tower, then Visions, now Torghast.



    If the deep dungeon ends up being well executed, this would def solve the problem of reaching your power limit then quitting, I for one, would personally love to be able to flex my bis in a pve environment after hitting it.
    Honorary member of the Baine Fanclub, the only member really.

  8. #268
    Every single new power system has been unbalanced with multiple unintended implications on launch. Artifact weapons, azerite armour, essences, corruption has all been very unbalanced and required a lot of tuning to get somewhat balanced, and because all of them are tied to heavy grind and/or RNG rewards when they inevitable tune them because of how unbalanced they are it's frustrating both for the players who got the gear because all of your effort is nulled because now you feel compelled to put AP into another weapon, grind new relics, get new azerite, spend another 5m on BoE corruptions while you wonder if this is the final tuning patch or if this effort will be made obsolete as well. But I'm sure this time they will nail it and there won't be any tuning to covenants that make you want to reroll at least a few times in the early weeks of the expansion launch and every patch as they add more shit to them as well.

  9. #269
    Titan Orby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Advent View Post
    I cannot stress how much of this is simply a mindset issue. No sane person sees the titanforge system as a detriment because they didn't get the best item drop. It's supposed to be a bonus, not the expected outcome.
    Maybe it is a mindset thing, I just know that I don't get any satisfaction from WoW these days. Everything is just endless, there's no end without a mindless long grind. I can take grinds in MMO's I been playing this game since vanilla I have seen my fair share of horrible grinds :P

    Quote Originally Posted by Advent View Post
    You aren't supposed to be able to finish an MMO, as I see it. That was the ultimate failing of expansions past. Nothing bores me more than finishing Ogri'la or Skettis dailies and having nothing left to do for the day.
    It can be as boring as it wants, it least it done in under half hour. The current dailies are boring and take near 2 hours. :P

    I like the horrific visions though, I don;t get bored of them at least they provide some challenge :P
    Last edited by Orby; 2020-03-09 at 10:15 AM.

  10. #270
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    Quote Originally Posted by DemonDays View Post
    Unless they've done a complete 180 on Covenant design since the reveal(lol nope). Then they will be the Azerite of Shadowlands.

    We all know Blizzard is absolutely awful at balancing. Locking player power behind a choice that should be for cosmetic and story purposes is absolutely moronic.

    There will be a BEST Covenant ability for your spec/class. It will be the best by a long margin. There will also be an absolute worst.

    Then - nerfs and buffs will happen and the pendulum will swing again. But Blizzard has already said they're going to make it extremely hard to switch Covenants.

    Why can't these morons open their eyes?
    As with anything related to ANY MMORPG since Everquest days, only the 1% of tryhards care for optimization and go for the more efficient or uber best cookie cuter build. The rest of the playerbase will play wtf they want, how they want and when they want. For me I will definetly go chose that Castlevania covenant (dont remember the name, its the one that looks like vampires) because its the one that looks cooler to me. Don't give 2 flying geese's ass about what some random joe will write on a fansite like WoWHEad on which covenant gives the "bestest" power for your 0.0001% dps increase, this is an RPG (even if blizzard is dumbing it down for years) so we play what we want.

    And I honestly HOPE the covenant I chose isn't the best one, or else all the normies will find the guides written by said tryhards, will flock to my covenant in an attempt to mimic what the random streamer said would be the best one to chose, and Blizzard will end up nerfing it and ruin the experience to anyone.

  11. #271
    The Unstoppable Force Super Kami Dende's Avatar
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    Most Players will choose what they like via the looks or cool factor. Blizzard shouldn't balance around the 2% of retards that cry about balance 24/7.

  12. #272
    I'm of the opinion that as long as there are different powers attached to them, then they can potentially ruin the whole idea in a variety of ways. I'm sure they'll have some kind of grind attached to them, but i'm fine with that as long as it is finite.

    The problem with Blizzard's philosophy when it comes to choices is that they are putting those choices on the wrong place.

    When it comes to performance based systems (gear, talents, abilities) it's important and interesting to have the player choose, but you should not make that choice semi-permanent or make them feel extremely punished for making the 'wrong' choice for their class, spec or prefered activity. Performance based choices should be easy to change, flexible, easy to play around with them, find out what suits you best, be it for a given situation, for a given activity or simply something you just like and feel good when using it.

    If you base the whole system around having a very important and crucial choice that will cost you a lot of gold or time (or both) to revert then you are sending the wrong message, specially for a performance based choice that is not that easy to figure out just by reading what it does. So it has a huge potential to end up a something that theorycrafters will figure out and then a lot of people will just do whatever the class guide or raidbots tells them to do.

    And that's why covenants can potentially ruin shadowlands. Even if the difference is small, no one should feel like they can't just go with whatever theme suits their taste because the skill attached to that theme doesn't perform that well, no one should feel like they made the wrong choice bacause it turns out that every guide on the internet is telling him that for his class & spec the best covenant is a different one... and no one should feel like patch 9.1.2 suddenly made his covenant choice a bad choice, because now that other covenant ability performs better.

    Choosing a covenant should be about choosing a theme, mount, transmog... nothing to do with performance. That's the kind of permanent or semi-permanent choice that works for this kind of game.
    "Mastery Haste will fix it."

  13. #273
    I just can't wait until Beta rolls around, all of the guides get written on X class should take Y covenant and then sometime early on into the life of the expansion Blizzard decides too many people are joining covenant Y so it's ability gets nerfed and is no longer BiS.
    Quote Originally Posted by cubby View Post
    The only lies here are the bullshit coming from you. RBG appears to be immortal.

  14. #274
    Quote Originally Posted by Wildpantz View Post
    I will pick the coolest armor. The abilities they have is 1 attack comparing that to azerite is like saying lfr and mythic is the same
    this, when they show us the plate armor sets i knew in an instant which covenant i will play as frost DK without needing any other info

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Orby View Post
    The current dailies are boring and take near 2 hours.
    the fuck? am i missing 85% of daily q each day? bcs im done in 20m usualy
    (not if there are chest+rares combination in both vale and uldum, ill give you that)

  15. #275
    The Lightbringer
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    Quote Originally Posted by vitor210 View Post
    As with anything related to ANY MMORPG since Everquest days, only the 1% of tryhards care for optimization and go for the more efficient or uber best cookie cuter build. The rest of the playerbase will play wtf they want, how they want and when they want. For me I will definetly go chose that Castlevania covenant (dont remember the name, its the one that looks like vampires) because its the one that looks cooler to me. Don't give 2 flying geese's ass about what some random joe will write on a fansite like WoWHEad on which covenant gives the "bestest" power for your 0.0001% dps increase, this is an RPG (even if blizzard is dumbing it down for years) so we play what we want.

    And I honestly HOPE the covenant I chose isn't the best one, or else all the normies will find the guides written by said tryhards, will flock to my covenant in an attempt to mimic what the random streamer said would be the best one to chose, and Blizzard will end up nerfing it and ruin the experience to anyone.
    BFA percentage of players whining about getting +14 stats instead of 500k DPS twilight devastation proves you wrong. People dont care about min maxing, but they care to be at least more or less effective. And Covenants most likely WILL have a huge gaps between power for certain classes.

  16. #276
    Quote Originally Posted by Dellis0991 View Post
    You don't know shit.
    Well, actually we do know a lot. :-) It's the same people with the same vision about the game, nothing will change, will be just renames here in there. Whoever expects a different take on systems, will be disappointed hard.

  17. #277
    unless you are chasing realm first , top 100 world ... they won't matter.
    Member: Dragon Flight Alpha Club, Member since 7/20/22

  18. #278
    Quote Originally Posted by Harbour View Post
    This attitude has already become a local meme. Shame on you. Its completely okay to be skeptic about Shadowlands given how Alpaha/Beta BFA went (basically Blizzard ignored all feedback).

    Blizzard have already defined how Shadowlands meant to be played.

    Alpha and Beta are just bug and balance test, so if Shadowlands features and class design would suck on alpha, then make no mistake - 99% of design problems would be kept in Beta, on Release and maybe even in 9.3 patch.

    We will get all important answers really soon.
    It's okay to skeptic about a lot of things, but i will ask you the same question that i asked the person who started this thread - and which he ignored. "What do you suggest? " I suggested expressing your CALM opinions on WoW forums, especially during Alpha/Beta.

  19. #279
    Has there ever been an expansion where we knew jack shit about it with release suppose to be like 6-8 months away.

  20. #280
    Any form of gating with any name will contribute to ruin Shadownlands for me like it did for BFA.

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