SWTOR looking to have a future.

[Fkiolaris]

Not 10 years. It's 8 years. 1 billion USD = 1.000 million USD = 125 million per year for 8 years straight or more than 10 million USD per month (averaging). That's a healthy profit. No need to talk it down.

No need to play it down, but no need to make it look better than it is either. That amount did not come in a uniform manner across 8 years, in fact it would be safe bet to say that most of the money came from a) subs in the first year or so and b) whales that hoover absolutely everything from the shop multiple times. How that translates to the health of a game, an MMO at that, in 2020 is open to anyone's interpretation, but let's keep things in perspective.

[Vargulf the Happy Husky]

No need to play it down, but no need to make it look better than it is either. That amount did not come in a uniform manner across 8 years, in fact it would be safe bet to say that most of the money came from a) subs in the first year or so and b) whales that hoover absolutely everything from the shop multiple times. How that translates to the health of a game, an MMO at that, in 2020 is open to anyone's interpretation, but let's keep things in perspective.

i play the game daily, it replaced wow for me. the most efficient ways of playing the game are always available. in truth there are some parts of the game that are ghost towns (starfighter, uprisings, ranked pvp) but if you aren't some elitist prick of a gamer then its still a very fun game. worth paying the sub for a couple months, taking a break and coming back as they put content out.

lets keep things in perspective.

oh and who cares how much money they have made?

[Fkiolaris]

Yeah, I see it the same way. I don't want to argue about the quality of the game. I just wanted to underline that the game financially is doing very well and that 1 billion is a big deal.

I am not trying to argue the quality of the game, either so no worries. All I am saying is that 1 billion over 8 years is only as important as what percentage of that is part of the current financial year and where it is mostly coming from , because these are the things that matter in terms of the game having a future and what kind of it (ie more content vs more store items).

i play the game daily, it replaced wow for me. the most efficient ways of playing the game are always available. in truth there are some parts of the game that are ghost towns (starfighter, uprisings, ranked pvp) but if you aren't some elitist prick of a gamer then its still a very fun game. worth paying the sub for a couple months, taking a break and coming back as they put content out.

lets keep things in perspective.

oh and who cares how much money they have made?

I am going to ignore your indirect insult and just answer your question: if they don't make enough money to satisfy the higher-ups (whoever they might be) or meet any targets set by any kind of financial forecasting, never mind being enough to run the game and pay the salaries of the people working on it, then it does matter a lot. Just like for every other game in 2020, unfortunately.

But you knew that already, didn't you?

[Vargulf the Happy Husky]

But you knew that already, didn't you?

of course i did, you must be a jedi like my characters in swtor.

last I heard, EA were happy campers with swtor currently. once kotor 1 gets its reboot i think popularity in the game will come back as well. granted, they have some work to do if they want to really capitalize on that

and the "elitist prick gamer" comment wasn't pointed at you directly, funny you took it that way.

[quras]

Not 10 years. It's 8 years. 1 billion USD = 1.000 million USD = 125 million per year for 8 years straight or more than 10 million USD per month (averaging). That's a healthy profit. No need to talk it down.

I highly doubt it breaks down like that. We're probably looking at a graph that starts out high and quickly drops off.

This game very likely had it's bulk of cash made in the first half of it's life. The later half making much less. SWTOR couldn't even get mentioned in EA reports so the likelihood it made anywhere near 125 million a year isn't likely. I'd wager it's less than half that in the past years.

It's making enough to not get closed down but not enough to warrant getting mentioned in revenue reports or getting mentioned at all in nearly anything.

What is SWTOR future? My guess would be more of he mediocrity this game continues to get. Just enough to keep the doors open but nothing amazing. Nothing will be what most consider a large content patch or expansion. Everything will be rather short and grindy even for an MMO. What you see now is what you will continue to get and there will be large gaps where you get nothing but cash shop updates and some bar to grind out.

If you enjoyed it then you are good to go. You'll get more of the same.
If you didn't well you're not getting anything better in the years or months to come.

[Swnem]

I highly doubt it breaks down like that. We're probably looking at a graph that starts out high and quickly drops off.

This game very likely had it's bulk of cash made in the first half of it's life. The later half making much less. SWTOR couldn't even get mentioned in EA reports so the likelihood it made anywhere near 125 million a year isn't likely. I'd wager it's less than half that in the past years.

It's making enough to not get closed down but not enough to warrant getting mentioned in revenue reports or getting mentioned at all in nearly anything.

What is SWTOR future? My guess would be more of he mediocrity this game continues to get. Just enough to keep the doors open but nothing amazing. Nothing will be what most consider a large content patch or expansion. Everything will be rather short and grindy even for an MMO. What you see now is what you will continue to get and there will be large gaps where you get nothing but cash shop updates and some bar to grind out.

If you enjoyed it then you are good to go. You'll get more of the same.
If you didn't well you're not getting anything better in the years or months to come.

That's just speculation from you.

Facts are the game made 1 bil and EA is happy with it. The game is still being financed. It confirmed what is likely another expansion for the 10th anniversary.

Now, the rest is also true. The game is not the best supported game ever, but it is also untrue when you say it's super grindy. It's way less grindy than WoW or FFXIV. So, that's an outright lie. You can get geared up on SWTOR in 2 weeks if you go hardcore. It's pretty easy to gear up alts too, so you will be having fun most of the time. There is more than just content. Fun systems and design is what keeps players engaged. It is by far more fun to play than said mmo's as well for that reason and the great class design. Content is important, and that is why some of us playing some months on and others off. But there is no other mmo more fun to play atm. I tried all except ESO. What they say about classes on that game is enough to not want to even try it. Though yeah, they have yearly xpacs, wich is nice.

Honestly, if content was all i cared about i would be playing ESO or FFXIV. But alas, i get bored. Content does not equal fun, though it is also important.

[quras]

That's just speculation from you.

Facts are the game made 1 bil and EA is happy with it. The game is still being financed. It confirmed what is likely another expansion for the 10th anniversary.

Of course it's speculation. Thats not some amazing statement saying it's speculation. The difference is, it's more than likely to be true do to simple logic and how business works as well as how swtor has done over the years. 100% fact? Nope but I'd wager it's more right than swtor making 125 million a year right now. Hell, They said 1 billion in revenue over it's lifespan because they don't want to say what it's making right now (which we know EA doesn't talk about swtor anyway).

The fist years of the game took the largest profits but even then the game suffered (It went F2P faster than any game in history save one I can think of). Content continued to get smaller and smaller year after year. Numbers dropped year after year and we went from at swtors peak, 123 US servers, 91 EU servers, 3 Asia-Pacific servers, then down to 70-80 servers, then to 20 something and now we have 5. SO while I have no doubt revenue went up for those few times content was released, the drop off was much more drastic once that small amount of content was consumed. swtor makes no where near 125 million a year.

So yes, while thats speculation, you don't have to have some insider information to see that the bulk of SWTOR revenue were made most likely in the first half of it's lifecycle and the later half making far less when you take that 1 billion dollar figure apart. The curve for that chart is in a steep decline with far to few high points. As I said (which is a fact) EA doesn't even mention swtor in earning calls anymore. It's not doing well enough to even get mentioned. It's not doing so poor the doors are going to shut either.

Now, the rest is also true. The game is not the best supported game ever, but it is also untrue when you say it's super grindy. It's way less grindy than WoW or FFXIV. So, that's an outright lie. You can get geared up on SWTOR in 2 weeks if you go hardcore. It's pretty easy to gear up alts too, so you will be having fun most of the time. There is more than just content. Fun systems and design is what keeps players engaged. It is by far more fun to play than said mmo's as well for that reason and the great class design. Content is important, and that is why some of us playing some months on and others off. But there is no other mmo more fun to play atm. I tried all except ESO. What they say about classes on that game is enough to not want to even try it. Though yeah, they have yearly xpacs, wich is nice.

Thats fantastically subjective but not something I agree with. For my subjective reasoning, swtor is grindy and has been since F2P. I find it no more fun or entertaining than wow or FF14, nor do I find the new grinds we do have this amazing fun, rinse /repeat process. It's no more entertaining than any other to me after this point in the game. At one point bioware made the game so grindy you couldn't even skip mobs as a stealth class as they had them all spawn right on you, no matter what you did. It's was terrible design all for the sake of making things take longer and be more grindy.

So we wont be agreeing on any of that except the classes to me are fun to play. I enjoy them but wow and FF14 also have fun classes to play as well. Maybe you also meant the class stories which I could also agree with. Class stories are the best this game has to offer to this day above all other things to do, the rest is mediocre to forgettable once those class stories are done. Still subjective though as I'm sure someone just loved KotET or God forbid Iokath. UGH.....

Honestly, if content was all i cared about i would be playing ESO or FFXIV. But alas, i get bored. Content does not equal fun, though it is also important.

Yea, we're not going to fully agree on that either. The classes rarely change so while fun they are a but a vehicle to the continued fun and entertainment in a game. Classes still need to be fun to play but content is where the bulk of entertainment comes from. Class are just part of a catalyst for entertainment. Without content, classes mean nothing. I guess you could flip that statement and say content is nothing without fun class but for me it's not the same. I've played classes that are not fun but if the content is entertaining, I don't care so much about the class being fun or not. For me in swtor that would be the smuggler. Not fun but I play it in the class story because those stories are fun. The GS is so much better.

So it's the content that drives the bulk of the game and for swtor story is in that mix more than others but for a long time now swtor has stayed in the field of mediocrity for both story and content. It's not terrible but it's not all that good either.

[Claymore]

I've personally held that The Old Republic is a game that many *wanted* to like, but it just adhered too close to the "WoW clone" format. Also, the game's character-models looked terrible even at launch, and it looks downright abysmal now. They went far too "stylized", to the point it no longer felt like "Star Wars". This is compounded by the tons of cinematics that were coming out leading up to launch, in which all of the characters looked totally normal.

I genuinely believe that, if they simply overhauled the character-models (or even just add a "realistic" body-type between options #2 and #3), it would see a lot more interest. People pretend visuals don't matter, but when you're trying to capture the magic of an existing IP, it's really important to stay faithful to the "look" of the universe.

From what I understand, though, The Old Republic is doing well enough, namely because it seems like they have a skeleton crew that maintaining it. I wonder if they're going to invest more effort into it, though?

For me personally, though, I just don't like the game. I don't like the character models, and I don't like the gameplay. Which is a shame, because the voice acting is top-notch, and the environments all look pretty damn good. But just way too cumbersome a combat system; it would've benefited from a more limited skill-pool, similar to Guild Wars.

[Swnem]

Of course it's speculation. Thats not some amazing statement saying it's speculation. The difference is, it's more than likely to be true do to simple logic and how business works as well as how swtor has done over the years. 100% fact? Nope but I'd wager it's more right than swtor making 125 million a year right now. Hell, They said 1 billion in revenue over it's lifespan because they don't want to say what it's making right now (which we know EA doesn't talk about swtor anyway).

The fist years of the game took the largest profits but even then the game suffered (It went F2P faster than any game in history save one I can think of). Content continued to get smaller and smaller year after year. Numbers dropped year after year and we went from at swtors peak, 123 US servers, 91 EU servers, 3 Asia-Pacific servers, then down to 70-80 servers, then to 20 something and now we have 5. SO while I have no doubt revenue went up for those few times content was released, the drop off was much more drastic once that small amount of content was consumed. swtor makes no where near 125 million a year.

So yes, while thats speculation, you don't have to have some insider information to see that the bulk of SWTOR revenue were made most likely in the first half of it's lifecycle and the later half making far less when you take that 1 billion dollar figure apart. The curve for that chart is in a steep decline with far to few high points. As I said (which is a fact) EA doesn't even mention swtor in earning calls anymore. It's not doing well enough to even get mentioned. It's not doing so poor the doors are going to shut either.




Thats fantastically subjective but not something I agree with. For my subjective reasoning, swtor is grindy and has been since F2P. I find it no more fun or entertaining than wow or FF14, nor do I find the new grinds we do have this amazing fun, rinse /repeat process. It's no more entertaining than any other to me after this point in the game. At one point bioware made the game so grindy you couldn't even skip mobs as a stealth class as they had them all spawn right on you, no matter what you did. It's was terrible design all for the sake of making things take longer and be more grindy.

So we wont be agreeing on any of that except the classes to me are fun to play. I enjoy them but wow and FF14 also have fun classes to play as well. Maybe you also meant the class stories which I could also agree with. Class stories are the best this game has to offer to this day above all other things to do, the rest is mediocre to forgettable once those class stories are done. Still subjective though as I'm sure someone just loved KotET or God forbid Iokath. UGH.....



Yea, we're not going to fully agree on that either. The classes rarely change so while fun they are a but a vehicle to the continued fun and entertainment in a game. Classes still need to be fun to play but content is where the bulk of entertainment comes from. Class are just part of a catalyst for entertainment. Without content, classes mean nothing. I guess you could flip that statement and say content is nothing without fun class but for me it's not the same. I've played classes that are not fun but if the content is entertaining, I don't care so much about the class being fun or not. For me in swtor that would be the smuggler. Not fun but I play it in the class story because those stories are fun. The GS is so much better.

So it's the content that drives the bulk of the game and for swtor story is in that mix more than others but for a long time now swtor has stayed in the field of mediocrity for both story and content. It's not terrible but it's not all that good either.

No, you don't know. The game didnt launch with the cartel market. It was only added later. We, and by that i mean you too, don't know.

The only argument you can make are the first year box sales. But these have associated costs. Later expansions were digital only.

We simply don't know the proportion and it's ridiculous to assume we do.

It's making money, it's being supported and EA is happy with it. Does it compare to FIFA revenue? No, it doesnt. But it's profitable and still being invested on.
Personally, that's all i need to know.

Would i like to see more support? For sure. But all signs are the game had a great year and content for 2 years down the line is already being teased. Onslaught was probably the first time the game grew in population since launch. So, while i don't see it getting support in the amount of an ffxiv or eso, it's not so bad. Better than it was with the previous 2 xpacs.

Your doomsaying is completely at odds with the reality of the game atm. It's in a better place today than it was 2 years ago.
I also want to remind you this game hires top tier voice actors. It really cant be doing as bad as you want it to.

[quras]

No, you don't know. The game didnt launch with the cartel market. It was only added later. We, and by that i mean you too, don't know.

The only argument you can make are the first year box sales. But these have associated costs. Later expansions were digital only.

We simply don't know the proportion and it's ridiculous to assume we do.

We don't know but as I said, it doesn't take some insider info to make a logical conclusion based on the game as to where the majority of the money came from. That being the first years of the game and not now. The cartel market saved the game from being shut down completely in the F2P move but if you think it's making 125 million a year and EA still wont mention it in earning calls is a good thing, then your delusional to how swtor is doing or maybe just uninformed about those earning calls.

It's making money, it's being supported and EA is happy with it. Does it compare to FIFA revenue? No, it doesn't. But it's profitable and still being invested on.
Personally, that's all i need to know.

Of course it's making money. I said as much. It's just not making enough to get recognized at any point for EA to actually talk about when it comes to their games revenue. Enough money to not get the doors closed but not enough to talk about to share holders. Thats not a good thing in the bigger picture for those that play swtor because it means more of the same mediocrity we have been getting.

Would i like to see more support? For sure. But all signs are the game had a great year and content for 2 years down the line is already being teased. Onslaught was probably the first time the game grew in population since launch. So, while i don't see it getting support in the amount of an ffxiv or eso, it's not so bad. Better than it was with the previous 2 xpacs.

I'd love to see the signs that swtor had a great year. I'd love to see EA and bioware talk about SWTOR in an earning call in that the game has really stepped up from whats it's been. I'd love to see a change from what we have where no one talks about SWTOR to something were it's at least discuses in the company and larger gaming communities. I'd love to see some real expansions released and not the completed in a couple hours expansion we get with a grind tagged on at the end of it to pretend there is more content than there really is. The problem is I know thats not going to happen. SWTOR just doesn't generate enough to get that kind of attention.

The game isn't bad but damn if there is no marketing for SWTOR, it doesn't get mentioned anywhere by EA or bioware on a large scale for anything and the best expansions we get are a few hours long at best, lets not pretend it's doing amazing or that future content will be any better or thatit makes anywhere near 125 million.

Your doomsaying is completely at odds with the reality of the game atm. It's in a better place today than it was 2 years ago.
I also want to remind you this game hires top tier voice actors. It really cant be doing as bad as you want it to.

doomsaying...? What did you do? Get that out of the "Internets most ridiculous words to use when you have no argument" book? No one is doomsaying but the reality of SWTOR is, there is no way it's making that ridiculous number of 125 Million a year and that all things are just so good right now while at the same time admitting support for the game is low in comparison to other MMOs. We would all love to see more support but swtor hasn't gotten great support for a really long time. The few of us long time player have had this same discussion time after time. Would love to see more support. Love to see larger content patches. Love to see real expansion packs. It just doesn't happen.

Here are some real world numbers I use to gauge things for myself. While a small sample size, I'd wager it's reflective of the game in general. My refer a friend numbers have been as high as 350 active subscribers, producing roughly 35K CC a month. I've been all across quite a many forums to pull it off over the years. Seeing a small increase and decrease over expansions and content releases. I've seen the numbers change but rarely drastically since refer a friend was launched. These refer a friends are numbers I have no control over and they are likely all around the world with no connection to me. So the sample isn't tainted in any way by me and I don't talk to any of them. They are people that played the game for fairly long periods of time as my CC count rarely changed drastically.
That number has been declining steadily since anything named Kot ** and of this last patch of content is now down to 12 last I checked.

I'm not sure what you think is happening in SWTOR but it ain't amazing. The games not going anywhere but what we have been getting is the best we can ever hope for because there is no way EA is putting money back into this game to make any significant difference.

SWTORs future is continued minimal support, no marketing and small expansions with full support of the cash shop to drive what little we do get. The games making enough to keep it running but not enough to ever get talked about where it matters.

[Katchii]

SWTORs future is continued minimal support, no marketing and small expansions with full support of the cash shop to drive what little we do get. The games making enough to keep it running but not enough to ever get talked about where it matters.

This is probably the most succinct and accurate statements of the state of SWTOR, which is sad.

The game deserves so much more than the mediocrity it's getting, and will likely continue to get.

[quras]

This is probably the most succinct and accurate statements of the state of SWTOR, which is sad.

The game deserves so much more than the mediocrity it's getting, and will likely continue to get.

There are few that have been in swtor longer than I or done as much that still play through all it's ups and downs but the worst part is how sad it was writing that statement knowing it's true and thats the very likely outcome for the future of swtor.

[Katchii]

There are few that have been in swtor longer than I or done as much that still play through all it's ups and downs but the worst part is how sad it was writing that statement knowing it's true and thats the very likely outcome for the future of swtor.

I've been playing off and on since before launch, I bought the physical collector's edition and have the Malgus statue (lost the saber in a move recently though, which sucks), achieved Legendary status (completed all class stories) and maxed my Legacy level before the game even went free-to-play. I've seen every quest, heroic, flashpoint and operation on multiple characters at least a dozen times.

I'm right there with you.

I love this game, but reality is, it's not doing well enough to warrant more support or updates and it's not doing bad enough to warrant shutting it down.

You're statement was very accurate, which again...is fucking terrible to accept and understand, but it's the truth.

[Nagawithlegs]

People that think WoW is in danger of being abandoned or is "dead" need to pay attention to actually zombie MMOs like SWTOR.

[druchii5]

I'm thoroughly enjoying SWTOR again, and my last subscription with it was back in 2013. I don't know, to me the game doesn't feel "dead" by any means. I get it--it's not the most populated MMO, but I see players in pretty much every questing/play session I go through, and chat is fairly active. There's also a good amount of RP within guilds, if that's your thing.

Regarding combat, it definitely feels more polished and fluid to me since I last played. But maybe that's just me. The Hero Engine isn't great, but graphics are still fairly immersive all things considered. I have yet to reach end-game, but then again I'm a pretty casual MMO player these days.

It's still a fun game, and doesn't deserve all the criticism it gets in my opinion.

[Fkiolaris]

snip

You are wasting your time trying to reason with the Karizee/Ministabber/Sliplmat of swtor. Just save your time and don't bother mate.

[Swnem]

We don't know but as I said, it doesn't take some insider info to make a logical conclusion based on the game as to where the majority of the money came from. That being the first years of the game and not now. The cartel market saved the game from being shut down completely in the F2P move but if you think it's making 125 million a year and EA still wont mention it in earning calls is a good thing, then your delusional to how swtor is doing or maybe just uninformed about those earning calls.



Of course it's making money. I said as much. It's just not making enough to get recognized at any point for EA to actually talk about when it comes to their games revenue. Enough money to not get the doors closed but not enough to talk about to share holders. Thats not a good thing in the bigger picture for those that play swtor because it means more of the same mediocrity we have been getting.



I'd love to see the signs that swtor had a great year. I'd love to see EA and bioware talk about SWTOR in an earning call in that the game has really stepped up from whats it's been. I'd love to see a change from what we have where no one talks about SWTOR to something were it's at least discuses in the company and larger gaming communities. I'd love to see some real expansions released and not the completed in a couple hours expansion we get with a grind tagged on at the end of it to pretend there is more content than there really is. The problem is I know thats not going to happen. SWTOR just doesn't generate enough to get that kind of attention.

The game isn't bad but damn if there is no marketing for SWTOR, it doesn't get mentioned anywhere by EA or bioware on a large scale for anything and the best expansions we get are a few hours long at best, lets not pretend it's doing amazing or that future content will be any better or thatit makes anywhere near 125 million.



doomsaying...? What did you do? Get that out of the "Internets most ridiculous words to use when you have no argument" book? No one is doomsaying but the reality of SWTOR is, there is no way it's making that ridiculous number of 125 Million a year and that all things are just so good right now while at the same time admitting support for the game is low in comparison to other MMOs. We would all love to see more support but swtor hasn't gotten great support for a really long time. The few of us long time player have had this same discussion time after time. Would love to see more support. Love to see larger content patches. Love to see real expansion packs. It just doesn't happen.

Here are some real world numbers I use to gauge things for myself. While a small sample size, I'd wager it's reflective of the game in general. My refer a friend numbers have been as high as 350 active subscribers, producing roughly 35K CC a month. I've been all across quite a many forums to pull it off over the years. Seeing a small increase and decrease over expansions and content releases. I've seen the numbers change but rarely drastically since refer a friend was launched. These refer a friends are numbers I have no control over and they are likely all around the world with no connection to me. So the sample isn't tainted in any way by me and I don't talk to any of them. They are people that played the game for fairly long periods of time as my CC count rarely changed drastically.
That number has been declining steadily since anything named Kot ** and of this last patch of content is now down to 12 last I checked.

I'm not sure what you think is happening in SWTOR but it ain't amazing. The games not going anywhere but what we have been getting is the best we can ever hope for because there is no way EA is putting money back into this game to make any significant difference.

SWTORs future is continued minimal support, no marketing and small expansions with full support of the cash shop to drive what little we do get. The games making enough to keep it running but not enough to ever get talked about where it matters.

You make up the whole conversation between you and yourself.
Is "we don't know" so difficult to accept that you must claim information you don't have to suit your narrative?

You are doomsaying. It's a fact.
You want the game to have the support of a big mmo. It's your expectations that are out of check. The market cannot support every mmo if they all have the investment levels of the biggest ones.

It's not dying though. For a medium size mmo it's fun and it's doing well. Not well enough for an 8 year old game to be what will feature as the centerpiece of financial reports of a company as big as EA, but one that is giving a nice revenue stream they are pleased with and still invest on.
And by this i don't mean the kind of investment that you would find acceptable. Biggest xpac the game had was Revan, wich had 1 more raid and fp than onslaught if i recall. People seem to forget that these xpacs come with a sub, and not an extra purchase. Maybe you need to go convince EA to invest into a fully priced expansion instead of demanding what is essentially free with the sub to be that size.

The problem here is your measurement. Either it's a huge hit, or it's dead. Maybe, just maybe, you are exagerating?! *shock*

Honestly, log in now and go to tython or the fleet. The game is brimming with activity. The only thing that is dead is the toxic and cheaty ranked pvp, wich the devs will be fixing soon enough.
Also the referal system was changed so only the first referal gives cc.
But hey, give us more of these dramatic dissertations. I love to skim over entitled nonsense.

[Stabbyfists]

I mean, I played it at launch and it was fine. I'm sure it's still a decent game in 2019 - I would personally give it another shot if they overhauled the engine at some point. That was one of the main reasons I quit playing, it just wasn't optimized and felt clunky.

I played at launch as well, all the content was good....except the raid content. Bugs Galore in Eternity Vault. The Debuff on the 2nd boss not falling off after killing him making the rest of the instance a pain. The puzzle boss pillars not being clickable. Then the floors not respawning on SoA making progress on him impossible for the night. I loved Swtor but Raid content is and always will be my jam . even after many patches it was still bugged, even with Karagga's palace coming out

[quras]

You make up the whole conversation between you and yourself.
Is "we don't know" so difficult to accept that you must claim information you don't have to suit your narrative?

It is a conversation but not one based on completely nothing. It's based on logical conclusions based on what the game has done. I get that most people cannot understand logical conclusions based on trends and in this situation what a game has happened in a particular situation (aka swtor the game over the years it's ran) but what all that doesn't do is make it a wrong conclusion.

You are doomsaying. It's a fact.

Wrong. Not one word I said supports doomsaying.

You want the game to have the support of a big mmo. It's your expectations that are out of check. The market cannot support every mmo if they all have the investment levels of the biggest ones.

I like the game. Why would I not want it to get better support. I've seen the game when it had better support and the current game that doesn't get much support at all. Yes, I'd rather it get more support that it does. While the market might not be able to support all MMO, ea and bioware as doing such a poor job they are not even in the ballpark of one would think a thriving MMO should get. My only expectation now and has been for a while is we will continue to get mediocre content form here on out. Thats about all I expect.

It's not dying though. For a medium size mmo it's fun and it's doing well. Not well enough for an 8 year old game to be what will feature as the centerpiece of financial reports of a company as big as EA, but one that is giving a nice revenue stream they are pleased with and still invest on.
And by this i don't mean the kind of investment that you would find acceptable. Biggest xpac the game had was Revan, wich had 1 more raid and fp than onslaught if i recall. People seem to forget that these xpacs come with a sub, and not an extra purchase. Maybe you need to go convince EA to invest into a fully priced expansion instead of demanding what is essentially free with the sub to be that size.

Like I've said, it's not dying. It's just not doing all that great to get mentioned anywhere by anyone and that included ea and bioware - the makers. You are right though, swtor isn't the centerpiece of anything while making enough money to not get the doors closed but also not enough money for anyone to mention swtor to anyone. Even the shareholders who are all about money. SoR was one of their biggest expansion but with 10 bosses in two OPS, I'd say thats a bit more content than the current 4 bosses in one raid. At least 50% less content.
I'd love to convience ea and bioware to do better to support swtor but I'm also a realist and know that simply wont happen. The game is to old and the engine has been a major issue since day one and as far as getting it for the sub price well there is the fact that we go months to a year with no content at all and the game went F2P for a reason, so it stands to reason that you get such small content released for the sub. Gamers would gladly pay an expansion price should there be an expansion that was actually worth the price. Gamers paid $10 and $20 for RotHC they would pay more should a solid expansion ever be made. So money isn't the real issue there, it's bioware inability to make a solid expansion thats actually worth the cost.

The problem here is your measurement. Either it's a huge hit, or it's dead. Maybe, just maybe, you are exagerating?! *shock*

I'm not sure you could be more wrong than you are with that statement. I know swtor was more a success in the first half of it's life than now. I know for a fact we had more gamers at launch than now and the game took a nose dive so fast it went F2P to save it. I know we scrap by on minimal content patches and I know I've never called teh game dead or dying just not doing well enough to warrant any talks about it.

I starting to think it's you who has an exaggerated image of swtor vs it's reality.

Honestly, log in now and go to tython or the fleet. The game is brimming with activity. The only thing that is dead is the toxic and cheaty ranked pvp, wich the devs will be fixing soon enough.
Also the referal system was changed so only the first referal gives cc.
But hey, give us more of these dramatic dissertations. I love to skim over entitled nonsense.

There is rarely a couple days I don't log in but I've been around for a while and while we are not given numbers, I know they are not what they used to be. I know our guild sees more loss than gains and it's one of the largest in the game, enough to dominate any conquest week we want. While yes, you there are still enough to play the game, it's no where what it used to be.

The referral system still gives 100 a month after the initial 500 for signing up as long as the referral pays a sub. Just like it always has, BUT hey! Continue to show us what you don't know as long as we're being cheeky.

[Swnem]

It is a conversation but not one based on completely nothing. It's based on logical conclusions based on what the game has done. I get that most people cannot understand logical conclusions based on trends and in this situation what a game has happened in a particular situation (aka swtor the game over the years it's ran) but what all that doesn't do is make it a wrong conclusion.


Wrong. Not one word I said supports doomsaying.


I like the game. Why would I not want it to get better support. I've seen the game when it had better support and the current game that doesn't get much support at all. Yes, I'd rather it get more support that it does. While the market might not be able to support all MMO, ea and bioware as doing such a poor job they are not even in the ballpark of one would think a thriving MMO should get. My only expectation now and has been for a while is we will continue to get mediocre content form here on out. Thats about all I expect.



Like I've said, it's not dying. It's just not doing all that great to get mentioned anywhere by anyone and that included ea and bioware - the makers. You are right though, swtor isn't the centerpiece of anything while making enough money to not get the doors closed but also not enough money for anyone to mention swtor to anyone. Even the shareholders who are all about money. SoR was one of their biggest expansion but with 10 bosses in two OPS, I'd say thats a bit more content than the current 4 bosses in one raid. At least 50% less content.
I'd love to convience ea and bioware to do better to support swtor but I'm also a realist and know that simply wont happen. The game is to old and the engine has been a major issue since day one and as far as getting it for the sub price well there is the fact that we go months to a year with no content at all and the game went F2P for a reason, so it stands to reason that you get such small content released for the sub. Gamers would gladly pay an expansion price should there be an expansion that was actually worth the price. Gamers paid $10 and $20 for RotHC they would pay more should a solid expansion ever be made. So money isn't the real issue there, it's bioware inability to make a solid expansion thats actually worth the cost.



I'm not sure you could be more wrong than you are with that statement. I know swtor was more a success in the first half of it's life than now. I know for a fact we had more gamers at launch than now and the game took a nose dive so fast it went F2P to save it. I know we scrap by on minimal content patches and I know I've never called teh game dead or dying just not doing well enough to warrant any talks about it.

I starting to think it's you who has an exaggerated image of swtor vs it's reality.



There is rarely a couple days I don't log in but I've been around for a while and while we are not given numbers, I know they are not what they used to be. I know our guild sees more loss than gains and it's one of the largest in the game, enough to dominate any conquest week we want. While yes, you there are still enough to play the game, it's no where what it used to be.

The referral system still gives 100 a month after the initial 500 for signing up as long as the referral pays a sub. Just like it always has, BUT hey! Continue to show us what you don't know as long as we're being cheeky.

No, it is based on speculation. Nothing more. No matter how you want to justify it as logical, it is not logical when it isn't based on facts, but conjecture.

Yes, you are.

I see you're tip tapping now. It's fine. At least now you recognize that there is a place between major hit and dead now.

See, that is a weird statement. Was it more of a success in the first half of it's life than now? Again, you are speculating. I am not convinced. What exactly are your terms for sucess? The game was losing tons of players in it's first half, in Onslaught, it gained players compared to KOTET. Is it less of a success now? It also depends on how much revenue was made with the cartel market in the first years compared to now. I can easily argue that the content they bring out in the market now is much better than it was before. Again, you speculate and present it as fact. You are the one that couldn't be more wrong. Evidence. Present it. You don't have it. We do not know the proportion. You sound like a broken record as you keep repeating your nonsense and i have to point out you are speculating.

Ah so, your bias is in full sight. We have information to speculate what you want but not to say what is obvious in the servers. We must use your anecdotal claims. I don't need to make up personal stories. One just has to log in and see. In this same thread we can see posters saying this same thing.
I don't know what made you this bitter. We would all love to have better support for the game, but what you are doing is just justifying that they shouldn't invest more. It's a self defeating stance. Onslaught was good for the game. Accept the win for once. This might be all we get now, but it's better than nothing and it's not much different than what we had before. But with an expansion that is a success we may see more investment, wich they already confirmed existed and they also confirmed it was a success. So, i don't know what you want. Sorry that the game carries on and Onslaught wasn't a failure? What exactly are you trying to accomplish here?