Mega-Thread: Democratic 2020 Primaries

[Martymark]

Biden stripped bankruptcy protections from regular people on behalf of credit card companies that funded him in Delaware. You people are absolutely deranged thinking that he is going to make the country a better place. He is a monster.

Under Biden's tax plan, taxes will be much lower for the ultra-wealthy and higher for the middle class. Won't that make the country a better place?

[NineSpine]

There is nothing I can say when you built a delusion that only reinforces itself when presented with arguments

If I give you the policies listed on Biden's page, the statements he has made over the years or anything like that you are just going to say he is lying and that he is basically a republican or something like that. Nothing I could say will change your mind. That is cult mentality

Just admit you can't defend his actual record. You can't defend the Iraq War. You can't defend the drone war. You can't defend the bankruptcy bill. You can't defend opposing bussing. You can't defend anything he has actually done, and then you insist that the rest of us ignore his ACTUAL RECORD because you like the valueless words on his campaign webpage.

[Machismo]

Under Biden's tax plan, taxes will be much lower for the ultra-wealthy and higher for the middle class. Won't that make the country a better place?

Evidence, please.

[Fahrenheit]

Both Biden and Trump (Bernie too for that matter) are suffering from some level of degenerative brain issue, but one will surround himself with mostly competent subject matter experts, as he still has the support of his establishment, whereas one has already surrounded himself with grifters, sycophants, and 'Yes' men, as that's essentially all that's left in the Trump wing of the GOP. I'd like to reach for more expansive progressive matters, but let's stop the bleeding before we move on to the progressive initiatives.

[starlord]

I think a lot of people might argue that if one more term of this pushes voters to finally fix the problem, rather than continue putting it on hold indefinitely, it's worth the short term sacrifice. Which obviously doesn't sit well with those who get "sacrificed," but the other side would argue they've been sacrificed for decades, too. The reason I've quoted MLK about 93 times in this thread is because these are all eerily similar arguments to those he spoke out against, and the concept that holding a negative peace of order over seeking a positive peace of justice is far more harmful in the long term.

i don't recall MLK supporting white supremacists so that "those who are sacrificed" will be more angry.

[NineSpine]

Both Biden and Trump (Bernie too for that matter) are suffering from some level of degenerative brain issue, but one will surround himself with mostly competent subject matter experts, as he still has the support of his establishment, whereas one has already surrounded himself with grifters, sycophants, and 'Yes' men, as that's essentially all that's left in the Trump wing of the GOP. I'd like to reach for more expansive progressive matters, but let's stop the bleeding before we move on to the progressive initiatives.

And that's how you lose elections. "Let's get back to the shitty system that created Trump in the first place" is not a winning campaign message. You win by being bold, not be being pathetic.

[starlord]

And that's how you lose elections. "Let's get back to the shitty system that created Trump in the first place" is not a winning campaign message. You win by being bold, not be being pathetic.

so why isn't bernie winning?

[Machismo]

I am Native American and a United States Marine. I support President Trump and so does the majority of Natives. They're are 562 federally recognized Native American tribes in America occupying over 60 million acres of land. I can assure you the majority of us will be voting and supporting President Trump.

President Trump recently signed 3 bills compensating the Spokane tribe for the loss of their lands in the mid-1900s, reauthorization of funding for Native language programs and federal recognition of the Little Shell Tribe of the Chippewa Indians. We love President Trump.

Evidence please on that claim about Native Americans supporting Trump.

[Edge-]

Be careful what you wish for...you just might get it.

What a shock, you're posting the selectively edited video leaving out the important context at the end of his statement. I'm shocked you'd be distributing dishonestly edited content like this.

And I'm being sarcastic, because this is painfully predictable for you.

[NineSpine]

so why isn't bernie winning?

1. The democratic establishment and the media are constantly screaming at democrats that if they nominate Sanders they will lose the general election.
2. Sanders has trouble shifting to being a frontrunner, so when he was in front he didn't make the right campaign decisions.

[DarkTZeratul]

I have an idea, which I mean Bernie Sanders has an idea, and that's to making voting day a holiday so that people have time to go vote. I'm not sure if Joe Biden also plans to do this, but he should definitely do it as well.

Which like most of his other ideas isn't something the president has any power to implement so it's kind of irrelevant. Congress would need to do that. Incidentally, the Democratic House did pass a bill to do just that, and Mitch McConnell killed it. Just like he would kill Medicare for All, and literally everything else Bernie Sanders wants.

[DocSavageFan]

Nobody actually believes you did not vote for Trump.

I don't care what you think. Believe what you want to believe and disregard the rest.

[starlord]

1. The democratic establishment and the media are constantly screaming at democrats that if they nominate Sanders they will lose the general election.
2. Sanders has trouble shifting to being a frontrunner, so when he was in front he didn't make the right campaign decisions.

then your argument negates itself. apparently his tactics aren't winning currently.

[NineSpine]

Which like most of his other ideas isn't something the president has any power to implement so it's kind of irrelevant. Congress would need to do that. Incidentally, the Democratic House did pass a bill to do just that, and Mitch McConnell killed it. Just like he would kill Medicare for All, and literally everything else Bernie Sanders wants.

"Why bother fighting when we will probably lose" is not the attitude that is going to win you those fights, or elections for that matter. It's why Obama lost every fight (although I suspect he wanted to lose most of them).

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then your argument negates itself. apparently his tactics aren't winning currently.

I'm talking about how you win general elections when you have to appeal to the masses, not just primaries where you have to win the deranged, gaslit democratic base.

[Edge-]

"Why bother fighting when we will probably lose" is not the attitude that is going to win you those fights, or elections for that matter. It's why Obama lost every fight (although I suspect he wanted to lose most of them).

No, Obama "lost every fight" (he didn't) because Republicans were public with the fact that they had no interest in working with him on anything and that their goal was to remove him (failed at) and keep anything from getting passed (sorta succeeded).

I'm enjoying that just a few short years after Obama we're rewriting history about just how awful he was.

[NineSpine]

then your argument negates itself. apparently his tactics aren't winning currently.

Democratic voters are, in large part, not voting for the candidate they want to be president. They are voting for the candidate that they think is most likely to beat Trump, an opinion which has been grossly distorted by the democratic establishment and the media pummeling them with misinformation and outright lies regarding Sanders and Biden.

[starlord]

"Why bother fighting when we will probably lose" is not the attitude that is going to win you those fights, or elections for that matter. It's why Obama lost every fight (although I suspect he wanted to lose most of them).

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I'm talking about how you win general elections when you have to appeal to the masses, not just primaries where you have to win the deranged, gaslit democratic base.

the "deranged gaslit democratic base" also vote in the general.

[NineSpine]

No, Obama "lost every fight" (he didn't) because Republicans were public with the fact that they had no interest in working with him on anything and that their goal was to remove him (failed at) and keep anything from getting passed (sorta succeeded).

I'm enjoying that just a few short years after Obama we're rewriting history about just how awful he was.

I was talking about how awful he was when he was president. I realized how awful he was when I met a child whose legs one of his drone strikes blew off.

What did Obama do to fight Republican intransigence? Literally nothing. He just caved on everything.

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the "deranged gaslit democratic base" also vote in the general.

And every single person that says "I like Bernie but I'm afraid he can't win so I'm voting for Biden" would vote for Bernie against Trump, so it's a moot point.

[Santti]

I was talking about how awful he was when he was president. I realized how awful he was when I met a child whose legs one of his drone strikes blew off.

What did Obama do to fight Republican intransigence? Literally nothing. He just caved on everything.

I sometimes wonder this.

Which president, do you think, would not have used drones at the time in the exact same manner? While certainly awful, I don't think it's entirely fair to blast Obama for it.

[starlord]

And every single person that says "I like Bernie but I'm afraid he can't win so I'm voting for Biden" would vote for Bernie against Trump, so it's a moot point.

seems like people have misgivings about bernie then. his "bold" tactics have turned voters off.