If Horrific Visions is anything to go by, Torghast is DOA

[MiiiMiii]

We know the WoW team is working on new content literally 2 expansions before they hit live servers. This means, even before BfA released, they were probably already working on Horrific Visions and, by extension, Torghast. No matter how little you enjoy Horrific Visions, Torghast was already designed to be pretty much the same thing long before they had any chance to get any feedback.

Blizzard has completely gambled that people would enjoy Horrific Visions and doubled down on this idea in Torghast. This whole single run - "do your best" kind of content.

I can only speak for myself, and mention I do not enjoy Horrific Visions at this point in time. I tried to do it solo as a Resto Shaman, and it was extremely slow and inefficient. I was "forced" to respec to Enhancement, and even in this spec, I don't enjoy it. The reason is that it's just stressful and annoying with all the stuff I gotta move out of. It's like a solo version of Mythic+, a system I already despise.

Horrific Visions is a place designed for AoE melee/hunter DPS. It's a system that takes a long time to do, so it feels more like a chore than fun. It's also a system that many people already are getting bored by. This means people got bored of Horrific Visions in less than 2 months.

From what I understand, this Torghast system is the very core of the whole expansion. It's the Artifact Weapons of Shadowlands. It's the Island Expedition / Heart of Azeroth of Shadowlands. It's the place to get your transmogs, the place to get your mounts, the place to spend several hours every week.

From my standpoint, if I feel like I have to do these, and I also feel inefficient as a Resto Shaman in there. Then, they try to tell me to "just respec or find a group", I'm out. Not only from the system, but from the entire expansion spider web of systems.

If people got bored of Horrific Visions in less than 2 months, how is Torghast supposed to last an entire expansion?

[ddsad2212]

There is a difference between content that is designed to be relevant for 1 patch and content aimed to be relevant for a full expansion. The hope is they've learned from visions and the issues its caused for not DPS specs and will change Torghast accordingly. Also I know blizzard work a few expansions in the future but that doesn't mean every system that gets added each patch has been in the pipe line for a long time. I'd doubt horrific visions were in development prior to BFA release.

Also for how small a piece of content horrific visions if I think they were pretty interesting. I know opinions vary but a lot of opinions I've seen on it are generally positive

[Pooti]

I can see why you would not like horrific visions, and not all types of content can possibly appeal to all players. What you have not told us though is what types of content you DO enjoy and would like to see more of instead.

[Mic_128]

I tried to do it solo as a Resto Shaman, and it was extremely slow and inefficient.

...well, duh?

[Lolites]

I can see why you would not like horrific visions, and not all types of content can possibly appeal to all players. What you have not told us though is what types of content you DO enjoy and would like to see more of instead.

none, i doubt he actualy play at all, he only make whine threads

[Sangris]

It depends how much of Horrific Visions they will actually use in Torghast. If Torghast is just a roguelike dungeon where you can unlock stuff for the run (akin to relics in Slay the Spire, for example) without these annoying affixes I think it'd be enjoyable enough for me - especially since it won't have any sort of shitty timer.

If it's like Horrific Visions where their definition of "fun" and "challenging" is throwing 15 different void zones/fears/stuns/affixes at you at the same time like you have right now (when using multiple masks) then I agree, it will completely tank, and deservedly so.

[Nevcairiel]

We know the WoW team is working on new content literally 2 expansions before they hit live servers.

This is a gross over-simplification. You are acting like the next two expansions are already done and just waiting to be released.

They start with a very rough design that far ahead, locations, story, concepts, etc. Actual detailed gameplay design happens very much closer to the release. Any feedback in 8.3 will be able to fully impact 9.0 design.

From my standpoint, if I feel like I have to do these, and I also feel inefficient as a Resto Shaman in there. Then, they try to tell me to "just respec or find a group", I'm out. Not only from the system, but from the entire expansion spider web of systems.

Just respec.



Did it work? Did you leave?

[klaps_05]

Not only is Torghast supposed to be completely different, but you also get to change how your spells work during the run, while also progressing through the new Anima in it and unlocking parts of your new legendary item.

But nah better complaint.

[Pandragon]

Horrific Visions themselves actually aren't too bad. It's combining them with corruption effects and some of the ridiculous zone effects like Scorching Feet and the slow vs Umbris that makes them really bad.

I supposed you missed the point that a key feature of Torghast is that it'll be different every run - Visions aren't. Plus it's not timed so you can take as long as you like - so you can play whatever you like.

They have to leave specific stuff out so it doesn't negate their ability to complain about it.

[Aucald]

Given that Torghast seems to be an expansion centerpiece as well as hefty part of end-game content (outside of raiding), it's likely it's going to get a lot of focus where the Visions of N'Zoth are more slapdash in terms of construction. It is also likely to be iterated on as the expansion wends on, meaning that even if it doesn't hit the mark initially it can be updated and made better with content patches.

[bloodwulf]

We know the WoW team is working on new content literally 2 expansions before they hit live servers. This means, even before BfA released, they were probably already working on Horrific Visions and, by extension, Torghast. No matter how little you enjoy Horrific Visions, Torghast was already designed to be pretty much the same thing long before they had any chance to get any feedback.

Blizzard has completely gambled that people would enjoy Horrific Visions and doubled down on this idea in Torghast. This whole single run - "do your best" kind of content.

I can only speak for myself, and mention I do not enjoy Horrific Visions at this point in time. I tried to do it solo as a Resto Shaman, and it was extremely slow and inefficient. I was "forced" to respec to Enhancement, and even in this spec, I don't enjoy it. The reason is that it's just stressful and annoying with all the stuff I gotta move out of. It's like a solo version of Mythic+, a system I already despise.

Horrific Visions is a place designed for AoE melee/hunter DPS. It's a system that takes a long time to do, so it feels more like a chore than fun. It's also a system that many people already are getting bored by. This means people got bored of Horrific Visions in less than 2 months.

From what I understand, this Torghast system is the very core of the whole expansion. It's the Artifact Weapons of Shadowlands. It's the Island Expedition / Heart of Azeroth of Shadowlands. It's the place to get your transmogs, the place to get your mounts, the place to spend several hours every week.

From my standpoint, if I feel like I have to do these, and I also feel inefficient as a Resto Shaman in there. Then, they try to tell me to "just respec or find a group", I'm out. Not only from the system, but from the entire expansion spider web of systems.

If people got bored of Horrific Visions in less than 2 months, how is Torghast supposed to last an entire expansion?

Plays a spec that does comparatively low damage to their classes other specs. Has a spec that can literally use 95% of the gear they have and destroy the content they are complaining about, yet refuses to switch to that.

Is the person not using all the tools available them in the wrong.........

or

Blizzard making content that can't be speedrun by a healer in the wrong.........


TLDR
Switch to elemental or leave. Stubborn players like you wont be missed in the slightest.

[MiiiMiii]

This is a gross over-simplification. You are acting like the next two expansions are already done and just waiting to be released.

They start with a very rough design that far ahead, locations, story, concepts, etc. Actual detailed gameplay design happens very much closer to the release. Any feedback in 8.3 will be able to fully impact 9.0 design.

I don't think it is though. The moment a system is announced on Blizzcon, it's been developed for a long time already. So Island Expeditions and Warfronts was going to happen the moment they were announced. No amount of bad feedback would change it. A system obviously has already been in development a long time before it is being announced on Blizzcon.

When it comes to the CORE system of the whole expansion, it is not unreasonable to say it's been planned before the release of previous expansion?

Remember that one kid that asked "who will wear Corrupted Ashbringer now then?" And the dev said "You!" and people thought he was joking. They probably had already decided Legion would give Corrupted Ashbringer to him at that point.

Torghast was announced before they had any feedback on Horrific Visions, that's for sure.

[sociald1077]

Actually, Resto Shaman is a really fun way to run visions. I run ilvl 440, 1 rank of Igneous Potential (once I get more I will run them) and Cruicible of Flame Rank 3 as my Major essence. No DPS trinkets. Lava burst and Crucible melt almost everything in the instance. I was able to finish off the Ogrimar vision so fast with only 2 orbs that I spent a good amount of time just running around looking for chests and crystals.

But as mentioned, Torghast will be much different. Random layouts, no timer. With the knowledge they got in Visions, they should know the solo and spec scaling. I think Torghast has an amazing amount of potential is they make it as punishing as a Rogue-like should be. You should fail and fail, winning should not be a given. We build up a tech tree ala visions and chromie to get us further. Then, if we a re good and a little lucky, we might make it to the last boss.

[Super Kami Dende]

Imagine crying about WoW on forums only to then turn around and give Blizzard Money to play the game you hate anyway.

[faithbane]

Given that Torghast seems to be an expansion centerpiece as well as hefty part of end-game content (outside of raiding), it's likely it's going to get a lot of focus where the Visions of N'Zoth are more slapdash in terms of construction. It is also likely to be iterated on as the expansion wends on, meaning that even if it doesn't hit the mark initially it can be updated and made better with content patches.

Just a small reminder that warfronts and IEs were presented as the centerpiece of BFA before launch.

[Rucati]

I disagree, if Torghast can follow the same design that Horrific Visions has but improve in certain areas I think it'll be incredibly fun. Keep the challenge the same but make it randomly generated each time so it doesn't get stale and I think it's something that will have a ton of replay value. As long as it doesn't punish you too bad for exploring or trying new things I think it'll be fun for most of the expansion, especially if they can expand on it over the lifecycle of Shadowlands.

[Aucald]

Just a small reminder that warfronts and IEs were presented as the centerpiece of BFA before launch.

Warfronts, yes. Island Adventures not so much. I found the Warfront system to be fun but mostly unrealized - so the hope is that the developers can take the failures of the Warfront system and iterate on them for Torghast.

[Harbour]

There is a difference between content that is designed to be relevant for 1 patch and content aimed to be relevant for a full expansion.

When it comes to current Blizzard, it doesnt matter. Warfronts and Expeditions proved that even if the content was designed for full expansion, its as irrelevant and pointless as the content designed for 1 patch.

[Nevcairiel]

I don't think it is though.

That doesn't make it any more right.

For the record, Covenants are the center feature of Shadowlands. Your "Artifact" and your "Heart of Azeroth" are in the covenant-systems, not Thorgast.

[Reivur]

Plays a spec that does comparatively low damage to their classes other specs. Has a spec that can literally use 95% of the gear they have and destroy the content they are complaining about, yet refuses to switch to that.

Is the person not using all the tools available them in the wrong.........

or

Blizzard making content that can't be speedrun by a healer in the wrong.........


TLDR
Switch to elemental or leave. Stubborn players like you wont be missed in the slightest.

That mentality sucks and hopefully gets ignored. I'm lucky in that I enjoy Resto Shaman and Elemental Shaman, but I also really love Holy Priest and think Shadow Priest is the most boring shit ever added to the game. The endless emphasis of having to be a dps spec for all the chores has retired my Priest despite it normally being my go-to for healing. His concerns are legitimate if possibly being put forward in a forum that won't get him very much traction for expressing them.

I also find it funny that Tanks are such a wildly unpopular role, and that if they made content that made them All-Stars for everything to the point where Hybrids felt compelled to be forced to tank or be wildly inefficient they'd end up refusing to switch and whine and cry until everything went back to being umbrella'd under DPS. Oh wait, that already happened; it was called Vengeance. Yet in any other scenario Healers or Tanks have to suck it up and opt to play something they don't want to for all the miscellaneous chores shoved into the game.

I don't like tanking. I never have, I probably never will because I don't like leading people or having to justify what packs need to be pulled under what conditions with a bunch of randoms. And say what you will about Vengeance in raids potentially discouraging DPS when someone 5x more survivable gets an inflation stat to do comparable or more damage than them depending on gimmickry like using paladins to not tank swap, etc-- but at the end of the day, Vengeance didn't hurt anyone in solo content. But even that wasn't good enough, because there were still tears even about that aspect of it. Even as they sit in queues wondering where the hell the tanks are.