Mega-Thread: Democratic 2020 Primaries

[Fugus]

she was doing well until a very specific point...

When she decided to backtrack on Medicare for All, which is a huge deal for many people.

[starlord]

Yeah I'm done with you and your bullshit concern trolling for shit you don't actually care for. What the fuck have you done for any of those things you've just brought up?

You don't give two shits about any of that and just use it as a political talking point. Its pathetic, craven and obvious. And I'm done with you.

oh, you should put everyone who disagrees with you on ignore. that way you can only see those who agree. makes life easier, huh?

[Rasulis]

Looks like white men weren't so much enamored with Bernie in 2016, but just hated Hillary: https://twitter.com/ryanstruyk/statu...46951026946048. Wonder why that is.

Black votes stayed the same percentage. For those of you too lazy to click on a link:

White, suburban and college educated women also voted overwhelmingly for Biden. Even more than the men.

[Levelfive]

To bring up a point I made myself a while back;

Democracy isn't about getting a perfect candidate. It's about looking at the ballot options you do have, and picking the least worst. In these primaries, that means vote Sanders if you like Sanders; I'm not criticizing anyone doing that. I'm criticizing everyone who says "well Sanders lost the primary to Biden, so I'm not gonna vote". That's a statement that you think Biden is just as bad as Trump, and that's ridiculous. He may not be your preferred option. He may be a largely distasteful option. Democratic elections aren't about whether you like that candidate or their policies, it's about whether you prefer that candidate and their platform to the other options. If Trump is 100% bad, and Biden is 70% bad, democratic processes need you to vote for Biden. Otherwise, your preference does not get considered, and that's an advantage for Trump.

Choosing to not vote means you've given up on your civic duty, and chosen to have the government not hear your preference. By all means, you can't be forced to vote. But you don't have a whole lot of ground to bitch about the outcome if you didn't even try and have your own opinion heard.

And if everyone really is that awful? Get involved. Apathy is not a grounds for bitching. If you're not willing to work to effect change, you don't have much room for complaining that no one else will either.

Biden's not my first choice, he wasn't even in my top 5, but this is triage--we don't need the best wound dressing, we just need someone to stanch the bleeding.

[Elegiac]

The top issue this cycle has been beating Trump. Medicare for all has majority support in pretty much every state so far, but beating Trump is still seen as the greater priority. But the fact that I chose coffee today does not mean I don't like orange juice. I don't know why we have this weird binary relationship.

Because players on both sides are trying to paint their cause as being the most urgent one as a function of messaging.

The problem is that "fear of Trump" is a lot more coherent of a message than "fear of the crimes and hubris of a capitalist healthcare industry".

[starlord]

White, suburban and college educated women also voted overwhelmingly for Biden. Even more than the men.

wonder why that could be. quite the mystery.

[Milchshake]

I can tell you right now, that screaming at the Biden team isn't going to get us to any progressive place. It's just not gonna happen. If you're progressive and you want to push Biden, you've got to find a different way. Being a jerk won't work

We've entered the no malarkey hour!

Democrats don't want jerks. I think that's pretty clear at this point. So the whole "I have to shoot the hostage to get change done" thing is not working.

Dem voters have overwhelmingly rejected Bernie, his tone, and his peevishness.

[cubby]

Because older people turn out more reliably, especially those whom are retired and have more time. And those people typically aren't the most informed. And from what I have read, the older turnout was actually elevated this time around.

Sanders plan was superior by everything I have come across.

And if Warren was the better candidate, why did she get destroyed at every turn?

You have to entertain the idea that neither candidate was the better candidate. @Elegiac is making a very solid, objective point. Sanders was supposed to bring out the young vote with exciting ideas and progressive policies. And that did not happen.

[Elegiac]

Because older people turn out more reliably, especially those whom are retired and have more time. And those people typically aren't the most informed. And from what I have read, the older turnout was actually elevated this time around.

Sanders plan was superior by everything I have come across.

You can boil all that down to three words: Progressive Messaging Sucks.

And if Warren was the better candidate, why did she get destroyed at every turn?

Because whatever chance she may have had at refining her messaging was aborted by the fact she was competing against an established giant in the field. "Warren" is a stand in for an alternative progressive to Bernie. It might have been Booker, or Castro, or someone else.

I've already authored several long posts about Bernie being a risky headliner for the progressive movement and it seems those fears have been more than justified.

[Levelfive]

Yeah I'm done with you and your bullshit concern trolling for shit you don't actually care for. What the fuck have you done for any of those things you've just brought up?

You don't give two shits about any of that and just use it as a political talking point. Its pathetic, craven and obvious. And I'm done with you.

That's a desperate deflection. You don't know any more about what I "really" care about than I know what you "really" care about--and I don't really give a shit what your secret motives are. Everything I listed is true and happening right now--if that makes you uncomfortable with yourself and your choices, good.

[Milchshake]

Who's up for eve more Unity?

It's still *possible* Biden will end up sweeping all 279 *counties* in Michigan, Mississippi and Missouri tonight.

That's an extremely broad and deep coalition.

[eschatological]

wonder why that could be. quite the mystery.

Rage, rage against the dying of the light, I suppose.

The interesting thing is that it debunks the idea that Bernie won in those states over Hillary because of NAFTA, that they just couldn't stand that so much that they had to go for the isolationist candidate, and that's how she lost to Trump in the general in those states, who ran against NAFTA (in comical terms, someone said last week that Trump was "to the left" of Hillary because of issues like NAFTA).

But then, how do you fight against that as Biden, you ask? Well, Trump has scrapped NAFTA and replaced it with.....a Dem-written deal which he had nothing to do with. In fact, all the substantive things Republicans wanted in USMCA were so fucking horrifically worse than NAFTA, but Dems managed to nix them outright. It's the exact opposite of NAFTA, where a Democrat signed a largely Republican shitshow of a bill, and made it better. And then Trump trashed the TPP and has since been disastrous on the Asian trade situation, forcing allies like Australia into making deals with China individually. All Biden has to do is be a little quiet on this and point out Trump hasn't done jack shit on this issue, and that's about all we can hope for.

[Dacien]

And the GOP wonders why it has difficulty attracting black voters. Christ and allah.

Stacy Abrams was barely defeated in an election of questionable integrity in a state known for voter suppression targeted against blacks and is a much beloved figure by both progressives and moderates.

I'd advise Republicans to stop commenting on internal Democratic politics when they know nothing about it, thanks.

Give us a good black candidate and the people on the right will vote for them. Same goes for a woman. Lots of talk of the misogyny of the right in not voting for women, but just wait until Nikki Haley runs to see some pretty eye-opening stuff from the left.

[eschatological]

Give us a good black candidate and the people on the right will vote for them. Same goes for a woman. Lots of talk of the misogyny of the right in not voting for women, but just wait until Nikki Haley runs to see some pretty eye-opening stuff from the left.

...like Barack Obama? He didn't get many votes from the right, last I checked.

Neither did Ben Carson in 2016, though I guess you could argue he was a super shitty black candidate.

[Elegiac]

Give us a good black candidate and the people on the right will vote for them. Same goes for a woman. Lots of talk of the misogyny of the right in not voting for women, but just wait until Nikki Haley runs to see some of pretty eye-opening stuff.

"Just not this woman!" is a meme in progressive circles for a reason, hun. We're aware that it's all grift no matter how many Serenas Joy you put into token high offices.

[Milchshake]

Rage, rage against the dying of the light, I suppose.

The interesting thing is that it debunks the idea that Bernie won in those states over Hillary because of NAFTA, that they just couldn't stand that so much that they had to go for the isolationist candidate, and that's how she lost to Trump in the general in those states, who ran against NAFTA (in comical terms, someone said last week that Trump was "to the left" of Hillary because of issues like NAFTA).

But then, how do you fight against that as Biden, you ask? Well, Trump has scrapped NAFTA and replaced it with.....a Dem-written deal which he had nothing to do with. In fact, all the substantive things Republicans wanted in USMCA were so fucking horrifically worse than NAFTA, but Dems managed to nix them outright. It's the exact opposite of NAFTA, where a Democrat signed a largely Republican shitshow of a bill, and made it better. And then Trump trashed the TPP and has since been disastrous on the Asian trade situation, forcing allies like Australia into making deals with China individually. All Biden has to do is be a little quiet on this and point out Trump hasn't done jack shit on this issue, and that's about all we can hope for.

Isn't Nancy awesome .

Remember where Trump got the idea to attack Hillary over the TPP from. It was a needless self own from progressives.

[Elegiac]

...like Barack Obama? He didn't get many votes from the right, last I checked.

"Well you see Obama wasn't a good black candidate because..."

[Dacien]

...like Barack Obama? He didn't get many votes from the right, last I checked.

Neither did Ben Carson in 2016, though I guess you could argue he was a super shitty black candidate.

I mean like John James on a national scale. Something like that. It takes a special something to be president though, but like a right wing Obama sounds rad.

The problem is conservatives tell too many hard truths, but that's a discussion for another time.

[Rasulis]

Give us a good black candidate and the people on the right will vote for them. Same goes for a woman. Lots of talk of the misogyny of the right in not voting for women, but just wait until Nikki Haley runs to see some pretty eye-opening stuff from the left.

She won't even get out of the Republican primary.

[Elegiac]

I mean like John James on a national scale. Something like that.

You are aware there is a specific reason why local Republican parties are more likely to elect minority candidates than the federal party, right? Loooool.