Bull Market officially over!! Year heading negative.

[Thepersona]

No. They're reading Trump 100% correctly.

As @Edge- posted, Team Trump went to meet the Senate GOP and threw fifty ideas on the wall, hoping one would stick. Everyone knows Trump is desperate to avoid yet another one of "his accomplishments" go down in flames, and he'll spend as much of other people's money as he can to make himself look good. He'll sign ANYTHING that comes to his desk. Payroll tax cut? Sure! Targeted tax break for companies? Sure! Refund to hospitals for costs? Sure!

Go back and look at the timeline of Trump's most public responses: putting Pence in charge, and after yesterday's crash. Trump doesn't actually care about people who are getting sick and dying, he keeps downplaying them and getting their gender wrong. But the DOW drops and he's out in force to put someone else in charge and wait for them to come up with ideas he can sign.

Trump's motives are selfish, actually they're evil. But that doesn't mean he won't actually bail out companies, as he did with the tax cut for the rich, by just handing them a large pile of socialist bailouts to save them. Even if the damage was self-inflicted (see also: oil companies).

I understand, But what i'm trying to say is that even those measures wont save the economy from a downturn (even a possible crash), and this time, it's totally self inflicted. COVID-19 is spreading like wildfire in the US and the measures made to contain it are lukewarm at best.

[Zan15]

Can he do that without congress approval?

not really....but then again he seems to be doing that a lot lately.....since his party blocks any attempt at forcing him to follow laws/constitution.

[Breccia]

I understand, But what i'm trying to say is that even those measures wont save the economy from a downturn (even a possible crash), and this time, it's totally self inflicted. COVID-19 is spreading like wildfire in the US and the measures made to contain it are lukewarm at best.

The stock market is a predictive force on how much the company in question is worth in the future. You're right: sick people don't buy things, and sick people don't sell things. Nothing Trump can do will fix that.

But he can give money to the US companies, keeping them profitable.

He can't fix the economy, but the stock market isn't the economy. People are literally betting he will save companies by giving them taxpayer money.

[jeezusisacasual]

The stock market is a predictive force on how much the company in question is worth in the future. You're right: sick people don't buy things, and sick people don't sell things. Nothing Trump can do will fix that.

But he can give money to the US companies, keeping them profitable.

He can't fix the economy, but the stock market isn't the economy. People are literally betting he will save companies by giving them taxpayer money.

Some of our funds are based on the idea that Americans keep shitty healthcare like legit we have a fund manager who manages health insurance companies and private hospitals for that very reason. I manage retirement accounts with longer term assets for our elder clients and so on but some form of government handouts wait wrong words uumm Stimulus is a better word for confidence will be required it just depends on whom gets it and when they get it and how much they get.

The tax payer will always be on the hook either from this, military expenditures or climate refugees they will foot the bill if things stay as they are with how little congress gives a shit about them why not.


A so it begins.

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/cr...?mod=home-page

[Omega10]

Some of our funds are based on the idea that Americans keep shitty healthcare like legit we have a fund manager who manages health insurance companies and private hospitals for that very reason. I manage retirement accounts with longer term assets for our elder clients and so on but some form of government handouts wait wrong words uumm Stimulus is a better word for confidence will be required it just depends on whom gets it and when they get it and how much they get.

The tax payer will always be on the hook either from this, military expenditures or climate refugees they will foot the bill if things stay as they are with how little congress gives a shit about them why not.


A so it begins.

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/cr...?mod=home-page

I read the article. It made me sad.

Title: Cruise line stocks turn positive after Trump pledges aid

[Breccia]

Once again, it's time for Guess the Speaker!

I fail to see the wisdom for holding meetings in May-June that would only demonstrate our failure in attending to what we should have done in a crisis like this and taking the necessary measures

That's Saudi Energy Minister Prince Abdulaziz bin Salman, explaining why it's unlikely the Saudis will accept the Russian's offer to meet in May/June this year.

The rest of the article is filled with numbers about Saudi, Russian, and US oil interests and stock drops. All 3 markets' futures are down S&P leading the way at -2.28% at time of writing.

[Zaydin]

Once again, it's time for Guess the Speaker!



That's Saudi Energy Minister Prince Abdulaziz bin Salman, explaining why it's unlikely the Saudis will accept the Russian's offer to meet in May/June this year.

The rest of the article is filled with numbers about Saudi, Russian, and US oil interests and stock drops. All 3 markets' futures are down S&P leading the way at -2.28% at time of writing.

So my best translation seems to be that futures are down because there doesn't appear to be an end to the oil price war Saudia Arabia started any time soon. Is that about right, @Breccia?

[Breccia]

So my best translation seems to be that futures are down because there doesn't appear to be an end to the oil price war Saudia Arabia started any time soon.

There was also no significant coronavirus good news, no significant economic good news, and an unusually high spike yesterday. These are all reasons for a modest drop of 500 points or so.

EDIT: Oh, and Asian markets are down. That doesn't always mean trouble here, but it often does.

[Omega10]

Once again, it's time for Guess the Speaker!



That's Saudi Energy Minister Prince Abdulaziz bin Salman, explaining why it's unlikely the Saudis will accept the Russian's offer to meet in May/June this year.

The rest of the article is filled with numbers about Saudi, Russian, and US oil interests and stock drops. All 3 markets' futures are down S&P leading the way at -2.28% at time of writing.

The US press refers to the "Russian attack on the US shale industry.". It should be the Saudi Arabian attack on the US shale industry. They are stating quite clearly that they are in it for the long haul. So we'll have to live with low oil and gasoline prices for the foreseeable future.

Pro: lower costs for most Americans.
Con: either shale companies go out of business and bank insurers take fairly large losses, or a taxpayer funded bailout props up the industry until oil prices rise again.

[Breccia]

Pro: lower costs for most Americans.

Any time now.

We've seen this before. When oil prices rise, gas prices spike instantly. Gas prices fell nearly 2 cents this week. Americans have proven they're willing to pay the current price by virtue of it being the current price, so, oil companies -- facing upcoming losses -- won't be in any hurry to lose all their money. In fact, for a while at least, as prices slooooooooooooooooooooooowly work their way down, they're actually making a profit -- the oil we're buying is more expensive than the oil that replaces it. It's temporary, but it's been done before.

[Omega10]

Any time now.

We've seen this before. When oil prices rise, gas prices spike instantly. Gas prices fell nearly 2 cents this week. Americans have proven they're willing to pay the current price by virtue of it being the current price, so, oil companies -- facing upcoming losses -- won't be in any hurry to lose all their money. In fact, for a while at least, as prices slooooooooooooooooooooooowly work their way down, they're actually making a profit -- the oil we're buying is more expensive than the oil that replaces it. It's temporary, but it's been done before.

Ooops thanks for bringing me back to reality.

[jeezusisacasual]

Now to see how many articles / opinions will be printed in the coming weeks based on negative rates, large scale asset purchases, buying foreign assets will be something to watch for going forward but until that happens here is a fine article for those curious.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-j...source=twitter

Also while Russia, Saudi Arabia and US shale gets the majority of headlines regarding collapsing oil prices i will spend tomorrow finding more information on other nations oil markets particularly Canadian and Norwegian suppliers.

[Zaydin]

Any time now.

We've seen this before. When oil prices rise, gas prices spike instantly. Gas prices fell nearly 2 cents this week. Americans have proven they're willing to pay the current price by virtue of it being the current price, so, oil companies -- facing upcoming losses -- won't be in any hurry to lose all their money. In fact, for a while at least, as prices slooooooooooooooooooooooowly work their way down, they're actually making a profit -- the oil we're buying is more expensive than the oil that replaces it. It's temporary, but it's been done before.

Yep. Oil/gas companies always leap at the chance to jack up gas prices but they drag their feet about lowering prices.

[Zan15]

So far the administration answer is 0% employment tax rate till the end of the year....

So basically stealing from social security and Medicare....

It was stupid last time they did this it's stupid now.

Just making the SS bailout in 10 years even larger for everyone but boomers...

[Breccia]

Aaaaaaaaaaaaand BOOM DOWn 776 instantly.

It'll come back up, but let's make this clear: what did Trump say about the stock market yesterday?

"Uh...he bragged a lot about his polls in an uncontested primary or two, but nothing about the stock market."

Exactly. It took him a while to figure it out, but he knows bragging about the stock market on the increasingly rare days it's good, especially after a record-breaking fuckfest like the previous day, isn't really a good idea.

Not that it matters much because we just started, but, the current DOW was matched in Dec 2017. As in, 3 points under Dec 1, 2017. We sneeze, we're in November.

- - - Updated - - -

Has it bounced yet?

...nope, down 960. Well, there goes yesterday.

[Fahrenheit]

What are we down from the recent peak? is it 20% yet?

[Breccia]

By the way, I swear that this picture is unedited...other than the red circle for emphasis.



Yeah way to stay upbeat, FOX.

"Now now, you know full well they just put it on Page Three after the Democrats."

Oh, you hypothetical contrarian, how right but how wrong you are!

Dow battered by 1,000 point slide, S&P nears bear market

U.S. equity markets fell sharply Wednesday amid doubts over the effectiveness of proposed stimulus measures to combat the economic uncertainty caused by the outbreak of the new coronavirus.

The Dow Jones Industrial Average was lower by nearly 1,000 points, or 3.9 percent, in the opening minutes of trading while the S&P 500 and Nasdaq Composite were down 3.4 percent and 3.1 percent, respectively.

The early selling comes after the major averages all gained close to 5 percent Tuesday as President Trump floated a payroll tax cut and other fiscal measures to buoy the U.S. economy.

FUX Yous. The DOW has been going downhill for weeks now.

Looking at stocks, airlines are in focus after American, Delta and United on Tuesday cut more domestic and international flights amid a wave of cancellations. Cruise operators and online travel-booking companies were also trending down.

Volatility continues in the oil market, with West Texas Intermediate crude oil down 3 percent at $33.33 a barrel. The energy component gained more than 10 percent on Tuesday.

The plunge in oil prices is weighing on majors ExxonMobil and Chevron, as well as Continental Resources and Chesapeake Energy, which is seeking shareholder support for a reverse stock split.

Bank are also under pressure as the one-two punch of weaker economic activity due to COVID-19 and plunging oil prices remains a drag.

U.S. Treasurys rallied, pushing the yield on the 10-year note down 5.6 basis points to 0.696 percent.[/quote]

Then some international stock news I'm not qualified to comment on.

FOX News is desperately trying to put their best foot forward, "but it went up yesterday you gaiz!" You can smell the desperation, not quite as bad as "Roger Ailes settlement" but still pretty bad. For now, they're hiding behind that one gun guy who got into a shouting match with Biden. No, really, check their front page. They actually think it's more important. It's Page Two.

Incidentally, that Barrons article in the picture? Paywall. I don't subscribe, so I don't know who said "Bull market over".

- - - Updated - - -

What are we down from the recent peak? is it 20% yet?

Shit, dammit, that was in one of the non-FOX articles. Hold on...

- - - Updated - - -

God dammit, you made me hit Control-R again! Down 1137.

- - - Updated - - -

Okay I lost the article, sorry. But, the recent high I saw was 29,551. A 20% off fire sale would be 23,640.

We're at 23,881

And I think the other two markets are even closer.

- - - Updated - - -

Boeing announced they will draw down billions in loans.

Their stock immediately fell eleven percent.

"Draw down?"

A company, or person I guess, can agree to a loan, but not actually take the money. If they leave the money alone, it doesn't become a loan on their balance sheets yet. When they "draw down" they're actually taking the money and writing it down as a loss.

Boeing’s total debt nearly doubled to $27.3 billion in 2019, as it compensated airlines and grappled with additional production costs for the 737 MAX even as the grounding prevented it from delivering the aircraft to buyers.

Media reported last month that the planemaker had raised a total of $13.825 billion in a fund raising round from lenders including Bank of China and PNC. Analysts estimated last year that the company was leaking around $1 billion monthly as a result of the MAX grounding.

Boeing, which has seen orders collapse in the face of the MAX crisis, said separately on Wednesday that it won 18 new orders for wide-body planes in February

"That's good!"

although MAX cancellations meant overall it lost 28 orders last month.

"That's bad."

Boeing, which has said it expects the 737 MAX to be recertified by the middle of this year

"That's good!"

is also facing the possibility of additional delays after it failed to win the backing of U.S. aviation regulators earlier this week to leave wiring bundles in place on the grounded plane.

"That's bad."

The toppings contains potassium benzoate.

"Can I go now?"

[Omega10]

Boeing is a large part of today's decline.

Boeing is down 27 to $204 for a 12% drop.

[Draco-Onis]

So far the administration answer is 0% employment tax rate till the end of the year....

So basically stealing from social security and Medicare....

It was stupid last time they did this it's stupid now.

Just making the SS bailout in 10 years even larger for everyone but boomers...

So far all I got is we got a plan to make a plan but not sure about the plan for the plan trust us.

[Breccia]

So far all I got is we got a plan to make a plan but not sure about the plan for the plan trust us.

Not sure if this quote or this quote.

Regardless, the DOW has 30 companies, Boeing is one of them. But because the DOW is weighted by various factors, such as price and stock splits, it's possible for some of the 30 to, well, "be more equal than others". It's been a while since I checked, but, in 2017 Boeing was the third highest "weighty" member of the DOW. Caterpillar is also in trouble and also on the list, but not as high.

The DOW also kicks people off every so often. Boeing's crippling issues mean they could easily be discarded.