Mega-Thread: Democratic 2020 Primaries

[JohnBrown1917]

Lurker here playing catch up somewhere in the back: Well said. I'm astounded at the complete stupidity being displayed in this thread by "progressives". Like what the actual hell.

Bonus that the same people are gobbling up the, blatantly obvious, Trumper-concern trolls talking points; much to their delight.

*Goes back to lurking some 20 pages back*

Yeah, progressives should just give up and fall in line behind the conservatives.

[Fahrenheit]

Yeah, progressives should just give up and fall in line behind the conservatives.

No, but they should realize that one side shares most of their values and is at least somewhat amiable towards some of their goals. Progressives, those cut from Sanders cloth are a minority in the US. They should work from within the Democratic party to shift it, over time, towards their goals. Which is precisely what they have been doing, look, just 5 years ago, no one outside of Vermont know who Bernie was, people like AOC weren't being elected around the country, you didn't have a major presidential candidate advocating for universal basic income, etc... This was all in just a few years. We're moving in the right direction.

[Theodarzna]

2004 was always doomed from the start. Running against an incumbent during wartime is a near impossible task, and Kerry came closer than most do.

Not to mention the Swift Boat Veterans nonsense was kind of the first start of real Karl Rove-ian tactics (he pulled some of that off in the Republican primaries of 2000 against McCain, but was largely unsuccessful in doing it in the general), and it was a miracle Kerry wasn't blown out of the water. Howard Dean wasn't going to do any better.

Running a walking vegetable isn't exactly a big winner.

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Yeah, progressives should just give up and fall in line behind the conservatives.

The Left is filled with people who are always too nice too Liberals or too spineless to ever confront them, so I suspect it won't be long before the bluecheck marks start spinning their hamster wheel after they realized a year too late that Aimee Terese was right about Elizabeth Warren and had her hounded off Twitter for pointing it out. The contempt Liberals have for Leftists can't be put into words, it is visceral and primal hatred. Once more a lot of Leftists simply take the easy route and do their bidding for them only to be betrayed, I am sure some of these simps will stokholme syndrome their way to rationalizing Biden.

[starlord]

Running a walking vegetable isn't exactly a big winner.

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The Left is filled with people who are always too nice too Liberals or too spineless to ever confront them, so I suspect it won't be long before the bluecheck marks start spinning their hamster wheel after they realized a year too late that Aimee Terese was right about Elizabeth Warren and had her hounded off Twitter for pointing it out. The contempt Liberals have for Leftists can't be put into words, it is visceral and primal hatred. Once more a lot of Leftists simply take the easy route and do their bidding for them only to be betrayed, I am sure some of these simps will stokholme syndrome their way to rationalizing Biden.

i'm sure The Left is very appreciative of your concern, Kamala Harris fan.

[eschatological]

Sanders only plays the crowd at town halls, so kind of irrelevant. I would have preferred him to drop before this but it might be healthy to have one more debate. I'd rather steel up Biden in advance of the general election.



You want votes, give people a reason to vote. This isn't about some strawmany nonsense about holding the election hostage. I've made myself abundantly clear and it has nothing to do with "Sanders lost so I'm not voting for Biden".



Lol. If the stakes are too high, why the FUCK would you ever want to "dare" people to not vote or just write off a portion of the voter base?

I don't understand why people are so eager to help Trump win.



Oh right, my bad. I forgot your hate boner for Sanders which precludes most reasonable conversations. Re-noted.



How do you keep not getting this? There are ample examples of people who CANNOT AFFORD to worry about shit beyond their own immediate concerns. It's not selfishness, it's survival, and it's certainly not a choice in any real sense of the word. Break out of the privilege bubble.

Here's a reason to vote: Donald Trump is an existential threat to our democracy. His re-election almost certainly assures a 6-3 Conservative majority until Clarence Thomas dies, potentially a 7-2 majority. Clarence Thomas is 71. He could easily serve another 2 decades, probably a decade at the minimum. This could be the end of a women's right to choose, civil rights for LGBTQ citizens, including gay marriage, sensible gun laws (lol those haven't even started), and a continuation of disastrous decisions like Citizens United, preventing any sort of campaign finance reform. Donald Trump will try, again, to gut your healthcare, which has one less obstacle with John McCain's death. He will continue to be a failure in foreign policy, and treat asylum seekers and refugees as animals. He will curb or outright deny rights to marginalized groups. He will continue to waste money on an ineffectual border wall, while cutting funding for things like, say, the CDC pandemic response team, which could be useful right around now.

If that isn't enough for you to vote for Biden, who is on the other side of ALL these issues - I don't know what is.

[Vash The Stampede]

Trump supporters trying to call out Biden will be summarily laughed out of the fucking room. When you vote for a racist piece of shit who thinks that sexual assault is justified, then you have no moral high ground.

Trump supporters are usually unreasonable people. Now that they tasted Trump for 4 years, they'll want another 4. The same people that voted for Joe Biden are also likely to vote for Trump as well. It all depends on the political theater that Trump presents, and so far he's pretty good at cultivating the sheep.

[Dacien]

Never tried to hide it, fuck every single conservative politician, no matter where they are from. All the same greedy scum.

How do you think you'll look back on this opinion in twenty, thirty years?

[Draco-Onis]

Well, the implementation of the ACA was a shit show. Obama didn't sabotage the Democrats, he's pretty much the ideal image of what a model Democrat should be. he has no skeletons in his closet, is a moderate, well-spoken man who appeals to all ages, religions, ethnicities, and genders.

You are referring personally not his political actions and failures. Obama ran as a progressive whose main goal was holding Wall Street accountable and when he got into office he basically bend over and let them run over him. The ACA was Obama building his legacy, he also drained resources from the party and the party put up virtually no defense of the ACA from the right.

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Yeah, no. There are a lot of myths floating around about how we got here, and one of them is that the ACA is somehow responsible - which is a convenient selling point for single payer, despite it not being true, which might explain why some people keep repeating it.

The Democrats being crushed in 2010 has a lot more to do with the nature of how the Democratic party was structured at the time. When we talk about states like Florida having ramshackle Democratic parties, the reason they are like that is because most of the party proper used to resemble it; the results being the Democrats got handily crushed at the state level in a midterm year when Democratic voter enthusiasm is typically low.

It's taken a lot of blood, sweat, and time for that machinery to recover from the blows dealt to it during the Obama years, and if the Democrats are better positioned now Congressionally and at the state level it is no small part due to that painstaking process of reform.

Nothing you said debunks my point about democrats not defending and running away from the ACA, the 2010 election was dominated by right wing narratives.

[Theodarzna]

i'm sure The Left is very appreciative of your concern, Kamala Harris fan.

What.... You are going to have to give me a big citation on that. I have literally never had anything positive to say about Kamala Harris.

Now I know you are just throwing out insults to avoid even talking. Like the hell are you even on about?

[kaid]

Here's a reason to vote: Donald Trump is an existential threat to our democracy. His re-election almost certainly assures a 6-3 Conservative majority until Clarence Thomas dies, potentially a 7-2 majority. Clarence Thomas is 71. He could easily serve another 2 decades, probably a decade at the minimum. This could be the end of a women's right to choose, civil rights for LGBTQ citizens, including gay marriage, sensible gun laws (lol those haven't even started), and a continuation of disastrous decisions like Citizens United, preventing any sort of campaign finance reform. Donald Trump will try, again, to gut your healthcare, which has one less obstacle with John McCain's death. He will continue to be a failure in foreign policy, and treat asylum seekers and refugees as animals. He will curb or outright deny rights to marginalized groups. He will continue to waste money on an ineffectual border wall, while cutting funding for things like, say, the CDC pandemic response team, which could be useful right around now.

If that isn't enough for you to vote for Biden, who is on the other side of ALL these issues - I don't know what is.

Those are all good reasons but one issue for sanders voters is apparently they just don't like voting period not even for bernie. I think that chunk of the voter base may just be unreachable when even when they have a candidate who in theory is exactly what they want won't bring them out in the numbers needed to make it happen.

[eschatological]

Running a walking vegetable isn't exactly a big winner.

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The Left is filled with people who are always too nice too Liberals or too spineless to ever confront them, so I suspect it won't be long before the bluecheck marks start spinning their hamster wheel after they realized a year too late that Aimee Terese was right about Elizabeth Warren and had her hounded off Twitter for pointing it out. The contempt Liberals have for Leftists can't be put into words, it is visceral and primal hatred. Once more a lot of Leftists simply take the easy route and do their bidding for them only to be betrayed, I am sure some of these simps will stokholme syndrome their way to rationalizing Biden.

I like how you refuted my points by saying Kerry was boring, as if that's what lost him the election. Your knowledge of politics is astoundingly awful. He lost that election by less than 2%. Do you know how close that is for an incumbent seeking re-election during wartime?

Also, I was informed that "bluecheck marks" [sic] is an alt-right term and a sign you're a Trump supporter. Now, I don't believe that, but guess what.......one of your fellow Bernie supporters does.

[starlord]

What.... You are going to have to give me a big citation on that. I have literally never had anything positive to say about Kamala Harris.

Now I know you are just throwing out insults to avoid even talking. Like the hell are you even on about?

whoops, my bad. still its pretty disingenuous for someone who favors right wing ideology to be stoking division among the left.

[Theodarzna]

I like how you refuted my points by saying Kerry was boring, as if that's what lost him the election. Your knowledge of politics is astoundingly awful. He lost that election by less than 2%. Do you know how close that is for an incumbent seeking re-election during wartime?

Also, I was informed that "bluecheck marks" [sic] is an alt-right term and a sign you're a Trump supporter. Now, I don't believe that, but guess what.......one of your fellow Bernie supporters does.

He lost the election both by being incredibly dull, but also by not being much a choice. In the end the ideological difference between GWB and Kerry was paper thin. There was essentially a "Not Bush" candidate and "Not Bush" turned out not to be enough.

Even the wartime and swiftboating, the War was unpopular. And do you think TRUMP is going to spare a dementia patient a swift boating?

[eschatological]

He lost the election both by being incredibly dull, but also by not being much a choice. In the end the ideological difference between GWB and Kerry was paper thin. There was essentially a "Not Bush" candidate and "Not Bush" turned out not to be enough.

Even the wartime and swiftboating, the War was unpopular. And do you think TRUMP is going to spare a dementia patient a swift boating?

Not in 2004 it wasn't. The war in Iraq only started in 2003. And Afghanistan was still wildly popular because OBL was still alive.

[Dacien]

Good bit on Sanders' loss from Jim Geraghty:

"Americans can recognize injustice in their country, but they aren’t quite willing to take that last step of believing that their country is fundamentally unjust. And they probably aren’t convinced that a dramatically more powerful and intrusive federal government is certain to improve their situation in life."

[starlord]

He lost the election both by being incredibly dull, but also by not being much a choice. In the end the ideological difference between GWB and Kerry was paper thin. There was essentially a "Not Bush" candidate and "Not Bush" turned out not to be enough.

Even the wartime and swiftboating, the War was unpopular. And do you think TRUMP is going to spare a dementia patient a swift boating?

i guess biden doesn't have to worry about being "dull" with people constantly flooding social media with his gaffes as "proof of dementia".
people like controversy.

[Theodarzna]

whoops, my bad. still its pretty disingenuous for someone who favors right wing ideology to be stoking division among the left.

Lol. I'm pointing out that there is no cause for unity with a party that has told The Left in no uncertain terms to go fuck off. And what exactly is uniting achieving unless there is concessions?

Yang just endorsed Biden despite Biden not endorsing that Yang Bux program. If the Liberals know you will back them no matter what, that you will vote and support no matter what than you fundamentally don't matter.

In the GOP and on the Right those politicians live in abject fear of their voters. Hell the GOP has been overtaken twice in the last ten years by grassroots insurgencies, the last one helmed by a guy not even trying to take over the GOP. Now look to the DNC, not a single Leftist incursion has been successful, and in fact the party has been purging and marginalizing Leftists since before I was old enough to walk. Bernie got slapped in the face for backing Jessie Jackson over Mondale. THAT is the DNC, the real DNC.

At some point even my cruel frozen heart feels some sympathy for people stuck in a Sisyphus loop, suffering in perpetual anguish trying to push a bolder up a hill. Plus on economics especially I back Marxism over Hayekism any day, I'd prefer the Red Army and Hammer and Sickle over say Paul Ryanism and the Koch Brothers easily.

[kaelleria]

Not in 2004 it wasn't. The war in Iraq only started in 2003. And Afghanistan was still wildly popular because OBL was still alive.

Bush was significantly more popular than Trump ever was during the 2004 election cycle.

[Theodarzna]

i guess biden doesn't have to worry about being "dull" with people constantly flooding social media with his gaffes as "proof of dementia".
people like controversy.

I am excited to see the battle between a walking vegetable and a IRL internet Troll.

[starlord]

Lol. I'm pointing out that there is no cause for unity with a party that has told The Left in no uncertain terms to go fuck off. And what exactly is uniting achieving unless there is concessions?

Yang just endorsed Biden despite Biden not endorsing that Yang Bux program. If the Liberals know you will back them no matter what, that you will vote and support no matter what than you fundamentally don't matter.

In the GOP and on the Right those politicians live in abject fear of their voters. Hell the GOP has been overtaken twice in the last ten years by grassroots insurgencies, the last one helmed by a guy not even trying to take over the GOP. Now look to the DNC, not a single Leftist incursion has been successful, and in fact the party has been purging and marginalizing Leftists since before I was old enough to walk. Bernie got slapped in the face for backing Jessie Jackson over Mondale. THAT is the DNC, the real DNC.

At some point even my cruel frozen heart feels some sympathy for people stuck in a Sisyphus loop, suffering in perpetual anguish trying to push a bolder up a hill. Plus on economics especially I back Marxism over Hayekism any day, I'd prefer the Red Army and Hammer and Sickle over say Paul Ryanism and the Koch Brothers easily.

and yet, dems haven't needed "insurgency" to advance their ideologies.
not too long ago you were crowing about how "the left and progressives have gone too far!! the right wing backlash is well deserved for going so far left!!" along with some other posters.
now here you are painting your face red.