9.0 General Discussion

[Sondrelk]

Ah so this is why blizzard is waiting so long for the alpha.

Pre-patch will coincide with a sudden mutation in the Covid-19 virus that will keep escalating until everyone is dead and Shadowlands can truly begin.

[Yarathir]

Pre-patch will coincide with a sudden mutation in the Covid-19 virus that will keep escalating until everyone is dead and Shadowlands can truly begin.

The true Shadowlands was the plagues we suffered along the way.

[Eapoe]

In Blizzard’s surprise twist, we have all been dead since Arthas pulled our souls into Frostmourne. Everything since then has been purgatory/limbo and Sylvanas has been the only one to realize after having broken from his control before. All her efforts have been working with the Jailer, a soul who works for Arthas but is tired of servitude who has allied with Sylvanas to release us from our death/undeath as we have been mindless undead roaming the world doing Arthas bidding.
The end of Shadowlands will be us waking from the Infinite Tsukuyomi, I mean undeath, to seeing a world that was not ravaged by Deathwing but is instead near lifeless with small bastions of each faction spread around the remnants of the world.
The introduction of Pandaria and them as new races was due to our invasion of the great turtle under Arthas command. The Burning Legion invasion was also beaten back by Arthas undead horde, with us being Arthas’ champions and not champions of our respective factions.
*That’s about all I have right now, I’m tired.*

[huth]

Servers have Corona

Well, they don't have lungs so they should be fine.

[TaliaKirana]

https://www.windowscentral.com/world...ry-shadowlands

Hah. This interview has them state outright the plan always was that N'zoth and Azshara were to be a big part of BfA's later patches. So Sylvanas was never intended to be BfA's final boss. She was probably planned to abandon the Horde and lead us on to Shadowlands from the very beginning of BfA.

[Nagawithlegs]

https://www.windowscentral.com/world...ry-shadowlands

Hah. This interview has them state outright the plan always was that N'zoth and Azshara were to be a big part of BfA's later patches. So Sylvanas was never intended to be BfA's final boss. She was probably planned to abandon the Horde and lead us on to Shadowlands from the very beginning of BfA.

Doesn't matter, people will always think Sylvanas was supposed to be a boss because of how she was handled. It's clear that her part of BFA was just a prequel for the next expansion.

They fucked up by deciding to make Nzoth and Azshara less interesting than Sylvanas, and giving Sylvanas two expansions of focus as a villain (including crowding the South Seas expansion she shouldn't have been a part of in the first place).

It's actually a little weird how many people think the Tyrande/Talanji plotlines aren't being continued because they weren't in 8.2 or 8.3... people are really stupid.

[Dracullus]

Then it wasn't good plan. BfA story is something like Spiderman 3 - too much threads at once, exact opposite to Legion with very focused story.

I think BfA would be far better as fully Horde/Alliance expansion. Same with full Old Gods expansion. But both of them, nope.

[Nagawithlegs]

Then it wasn't good plan. BfA story is something like Spiderman 3 - too much threads at once, exact opposite to Legion with very focused story.

I think BfA would be far better as fully Horde/Alliance expansion. Same with full Old Gods expansion. But both of them, nope.

Azshara/Nzoth expansion was absolutely sabotaged and forced to have the war/Shadowlands setup stuff. Maybe because devs didn't have faith in Azshara and Nzoth carrying the expansion or thought the nautical/old god theme didn't have legs.

Considering how unpopular lovecraft is now...

[Aeluron Lightsong]

Azshara/Nzoth expansion was absolutely sabotaged and forced to have the war/Shadowlands setup stuff. Maybe because devs didn't have faith in Azshara and Nzoth carrying the expansion or thought the nautical/old god theme didn't have legs.

Considering how unpopular lovecraft is now...

I don't think its unpopular, I don't think at least outside of my WoW circle its known about or even interested in it.

[matrix123mko]

Doesn't matter, people will always think Sylvanas was supposed to be a boss because of how she was handled. It's clear that her part of BFA was just a prequel for the next expansion.

Most of people won't read it. Danuser being the person to tell the truth doesn't help either.

They fucked up by deciding to make Nzoth and Azshara less interesting than Sylvanas, and giving Sylvanas two expansions of focus as a villain (including crowding the South Seas expansion she shouldn't have been a part of in the first place).

Sure. They wasted N'zoth's potential by merging his expansion with faction war.

It's actually a little weird how many people think the Tyrande/Talanji plotlines aren't being continued because they weren't in 8.2 or 8.3... people are really stupid.

They are horribly impatient. It was clear that Night Warrior was a hook for future expansion. I guess these people are the same who believe Sargeras is done forever.

[LemonDemonGirl]

It's actually a little weird how many people think the Tyrande/Talanji plotlines aren't being continued because they weren't in 8.2 or 8.3... people are really stupid.

Well, Talanji will be in the novel, and maybe in the Other Side too. Hopefully we'll see Rastakhan again as an undead or something, and he comes back with us.

Sucks he was alive for only one patch

[Dracullus]

Azshara/Nzoth expansion was absolutely sabotaged and forced to have the war/Shadowlands setup stuff. Maybe because devs didn't have faith in Azshara and Nzoth carrying the expansion or thought the nautical/old god theme didn't have legs.

Considering how unpopular lovecraft is now...

They could do Azshara/N'zoth expansion with literally same zones. Even more funny, 90% of story in these zones was about G'huun, Azshara and Drust threat. Just change intro, war campaign, 2nd raid and we have Old God expansion.

And without H/A split, we would have much, much more stuff to do. And some zones could be used as max level content, "Suramar" of this expac.

[Nagawithlegs]

They could do Azshara/N'zoth expansion with literally same zones. Even more funny, 90% of story in these zones was about G'huun, Azshara and Drust threat. Just change intro, war campaign, 2nd raid and we have Old God expansion.

And without H/A split, we would have much, much more stuff to do. And some zones could be used as max level content, "Suramar" of this expac.

Considering that the extent of the "war content" consists of warfronts, two quest campaigns placed around existing zones, a SINGLE quest hub in Stormsong and a raid that reuses a capital city, it clearly was slapped on over a South Seas expansion. 20% of the expansion is faction war while 100% of the marketing is faction war.

The expensive cinematics just make it look like the war is the theme instead of the nautical/old god stuff. In another reality, the developers and executives had faith in letting the expansion just be about islands.

[Sondrelk]

Azshara/Nzoth expansion was absolutely sabotaged and forced to have the war/Shadowlands setup stuff. Maybe because devs didn't have faith in Azshara and Nzoth carrying the expansion or thought the nautical/old god theme didn't have legs.

Considering how unpopular lovecraft is now...

The problem is more accurately that BfA simultaneously has to tell the story of Faction war, Resurgence of N'zoth AND build up to Shadowlands, when most reasonable stories would focus on just 2 of these. BfA could either have been.

A. Silithus wound causes N'zoth resurgence, death from N'zoth leads to Shadowlands.
B. Faction war is spearheaded by Sylvanas in an attempt to get souls.
C. Faction war because of N'zoth influence.

Any of these 3 options are valid. I definitely feel that option B. is the best one, as it could flow naturally. A. is the second best, as it forgoes faction war and its foibles entirely and C. being the best option if N'zoth needs to be combined with faction war.
But instead we have B. until 8.2.5 where the game suddenly wants to pretend BfA has so far only been about N'zoth and his minions, instead of Sylvanas' mad scheme ot gain power by causing mass death by way of war.

[Nagawithlegs]

The problem is more accurately that BfA simultaneously has to tell the story of Faction war, Resurgence of N'zoth AND build up to Shadowlands, when most reasonable stories would focus on just 2 of these. BfA could either have been.

A. Silithus wound causes N'zoth resurgence, death from N'zoth leads to Shadowlands.
B. Faction war is spearheaded by Sylvanas in an attempt to get souls.
C. Faction war because of N'zoth influence.

Any of these 3 options are valid. I definitely feel that option B. is the best one, as it could flow naturally. A. is the second best, as it forgoes faction war and its foibles entirely and C. being the best option if N'zoth needs to be combined with faction war.
But instead we have B. until 8.2.5 where the game suddenly wants to pretend BfA has so far only been about N'zoth and his minions, instead of Sylvanas' mad scheme ot gain power by causing mass death by way of war.

It has, for the most part. But because players don't care about N'zoth and the marketing/narrative is about Sylvanas they feel as though the expansion ends when Sylvanas leaves it. Hence why the devs gave up on making N'zoth's patch a meaty patch and just went all hands for Shadowlands: mass casual audience players don't care if it's not about the lore heroes.

They wanted an engaged audience with the Burning and that's what they got. Just they also got an audience that stopped giving a fuck the second they realized they had to wait another year to continue the story they cared about.

edit: also an expansion about Zandalar, Kul Tiras and Nazjatar could never work without N'zoth

[Sondrelk]

Considering that the extent of the "war content" consists of two quest campaigns placed around existing zones, a SINGLE quest hub in Stormsong and a raid that reuses a capital city, it clearly was slapped on over a South Seas expansion.

The expensive cinematics just make it look like the war is the theme instead of the nautical/old god stuff. In another reality, the developers and executives had faith in letting the expansion just be about islands.

It all sort of makes sense. South seas has been a consistent theory ever since WotLK for next expansion, and ever since we learned N'zoth is aquatic in Catacylsm it made sense that any South seas expansion would have N'zoth as a final raid boss. But then faction war came into it, and suddenly it was no longer the exploration expansion, it was about fighting Sylvanas, and when she ran away, N'zoth.

[Monster Hunter]

So it wasn't only me who felt a bit stroke-y after reading this. Good.

It made me consider self isolating from the Internet for a while.

[Sondrelk]

It has, for the most part. But because players don't care about N'zoth and the marketing/narrative is about Sylvanas they feel as though the expansion ends when Sylvanas leaves it. Hence why the devs gave up on making N'zoth's patch a meaty patch and just went all hands for Shadowlands: mass casual audience players don't care if it's not about the lore heroes.

They wanted an engaged audience with the Burning and that's what they got. Just they also got an audience that stopped giving a fuck the second they realized they had to wait another year to continue the story they cared about.

edit: also an expansion about Zandalar, Kul Tiras and Nazjatar could never work without N'zoth

8.3 is kind of a meaty patch though. The problems is flying makking the world feel small and N'zoth feeling so disconnected from Kul Tiras and Zandalar that it is difficult to mentally bridge running around doing world quests with defeating N'zoth.

[Nagawithlegs]

8.3 is kind of a meaty patch though. The problems is flying makking the world feel small and N'zoth feeling so disconnected from Kul Tiras and Zandalar that it is difficult to mentally bridge running around doing world quests with defeating N'zoth.

It's not HFC levels of "fuck this expansion" but the reused zones and "Nyalotha is a dimension!!!" things definitely imply that while it's not a complete abandoning of BFA, it's one that's meant to be less effort for the team overall. The big bang was the midway point (8.2/8.2.5) instead of the finale like it was in Legion: this is essentially the Broken Shore (one of the worst patches ever imo) with a single feature meant to keep people playing (Mage Tower/Visions).

We would have a final zone and two more ARs if this expansion was getting its full support the entire way.

[Sondrelk]

It's not HFC levels of "fuck this expansion" but the reused zones and "Nyalotha is a dimension!!!" things definitely imply that while it's not a complete abandoning of BFA, it's one that's meant to be less effort for the team overall. The big bang was the midway point (8.2/8.2.5) instead of the finale like it was in Legion: this is essentially the Broken Shore (one of the worst patches ever imo) with a single feature meant to keep people playing (Mage Tower/Visions)

There is definitely some point in comparing 8.3 to Broken shore and Nazjatar to Argus.
That being said, i don't think not going to Ny'alotha as a zone is a dealbreaker, i find the bigger problem is that with the small exception of the individual questlines none of the zones get to feel like they are living breathing zones, instead they feel like glorified killchambers for all the mobs. Argus did have Antorus (zone) that felt like it was non stop mobs and fighting, but it also had Mac'aree, where you were in theory free to run around doing not much of anything. With 8.3 there is nothing of value in the areas outside wherever the N'zoth invasion is.