What exactly makes some people say Legion was good but BfA is bad?

[Cæli]

it's social "hivemind", when people are social in nature and read social media and forums, they end up believing anything that comes up often, it's exponential until it's an accepted truth, and nothing is ever questioned. people on average reacting normally

[Autoriot]

They fixed things over the expansion and made it more alt friendly in some ways.

BfA just got more complicated with more and more tiered systems and made it less alt friendly as time went on.

[Ange]

Theres always that group that says the last exp was better, just like with shadowlands, there will be a group that says bfa is better. In reality its just someone comparing a shiny turd to a less shiny turd, but at the end of the day theyre both just a pile of shit.

You have armorys thats either show how much people actually played the content or show how less the people actually played, so we do not have to take each opinion and viewpoint as equally valid.

It is obvious that players with 50-70 WEEKS of WORLD-TOUR-RAIDS (LFR/N/HC/M) and THOUSANDS of M+ runs have a different viewpoint on LEGION, as the pre-BfA-Patch tourists, but thats easy to tell from the argumentation and would be even easier to differentiate, if people dared to link some armorys.

It doesnt really matter as much, as long as you have fun playing the game. The grind in LEGION was cruel and broke many no-lifers, while BfA character progression is easily maxed out by casual players with limited time for the game. There is no right or wrong in that comparison, since its pretty clear how casual friendly BfA got in some areas.

I honestly liked both expansions, after LEGION I enjoyed the easymode in grinding with BfA. My only issue is raiding, the whole gaming mode went from core-part of the game to fully optional and it cant really compete with M+ and its 24/7 community format. M+ with no tier sets killed raiding for me after 15years of participation.

[Varitok]

CLasses were good and you could just be done with artifact power.

You can be done with Azerite too.

[Kralljin]

Theres always that group that says the last exp was better, just like with shadowlands, there will be a group that says bfa is better. In reality its just someone comparing a shiny turd to a less shiny turd, but at the end of the day theyre both just a pile of shit.

Must've missed those threads during MoP and Legion.

[Lucavian]

They fixed things over the expansion and made it more alt friendly in some ways.

BfA just got more complicated with more and more tiered systems and made it less alt friendly as time went on.

Tier sets changed things up between raid tiers.
Legendaries (when targetable) were kinda fun and unique to each class.
Playing an alt wasn't just redoing the exact same thing for the exact same reward you've already earned (read: essences)
The story was better because this story was so split that half the crap that happened some players had to learn from WoWhead because Alliance players learn shit all of whats going on with the Sylvanas stuff.

[Kehego]

Tier sets changed things up between raid tiers.
Legendaries (when targetable) were kinda fun and unique to each class.
Playing an alt wasn't just redoing the exact same thing for the exact same reward you've already earned (read: essences)
The story was better because this story was so split that half the crap that happened some players had to learn from WoWhead because Alliance players learn shit all of whats going on with the Sylvanas stuff.

legendaries only became targetable with the bfa prepatch
i.e, never in legions patch cycle

[Shakana]

Yeah, really loved how they worked with our abilities. And the feeling of it hiding behind every corner was something I liked too. That pop up sound when you got one. *nostalgia* lmao! And it was good that they were different. Because close to every legendary could be used for something useful. I hear people want niche abilities back, sure that's cool. But what the legendaries did with abilities we had was even better imo. Could they have been utility only like the devs talked about in the end of Legion? Maybe, but I also think people loved the power and gameplay changes they gave us.

I got crap leggos in the start but for me, and I would guess for many other players, didn't have that "Quit the game" reaction to it. Sure it sucked, but when they lifted that hard cap at four leggos 2 or 3 months in it was a non-issue. You got one and then you could expect the next within a week if you played normally. When Nighthold came I had forgotten about the bad parts already. Not to mention the classes I played was so fun doing the content needed was pure fun. Even doing EN when Nighthold was current in LFR/N/HC was fun because the class was great! Nowadays you don't have the feeling of going back anymore. Like doing Uldir now, there are close to zero groups for it on my servers. I remember even in Antorus there was many raids doing EN normal/hc just for legendaries and transmogs.

All in all I think the bad parts of the legendary system in the start got overshadowed by the expansion itself, for most people. Getting corruption gear is cool, even though I have not gotten one single piece with Infinite Stars on my main which would be such a good upgrade for my single target damage. But I got 3% leech belt yesterday, with shitty stats. You know what I did? Shrugged and went on with the game. I remember in Legion we laughed at each other in the guild when we got the bad ones in the start :P We are that kind of a guild though. We still laugh about it at this day. The one time when our raid leader got Prydaz at first. He logged off immediately. It was hilarious! Even more hilarious when I got Prydaz at my second one. Awww good times

Prydaz were so good for tanking on my dh. I got like my bis on main first time and then after that my second bis was the last one leggo i ever got on it, that guy over there saying because i got bis that i should shut the fuck up, makes me kinda laugh, i only played the game to the max and got shit on it sometimes like afterrrr manyyyy things and times i hoped to get them. LOL still i loved the leggos so much everytime, i even got excited to play my other alts so much because it was amazing seeing all this diversities, legion was so focused on the specs and classes, it was phenomenal.
And also why would i hate "lottery" rng sometimes? but SOMETIMES, not all the time as in bfa.

[Lei]

I didn't like Legion either, and it was objectively very problematic till 7.3 when the legndaries became buyable, and AP grind was less of a problem. Legion was like 1 step away from falling off the rails, somehow 7.3 saved it all. Bfa on the other hand went basically off road from the get go and there was no effort to even get it back on track from the devs.

[agentsi]

sorry to disappoint u but legendaries were that random
i have a friend who was raiding and doing dailies etc on his mage, and he did get 2 legendaries, both were total sh8t, and to add salt to injury i was the friend who was altholic and i got the ring legenadry (probably best legendary) for my pally while fishing, and i don't remember doing a single raid outside of LFR (and once just for quests) in Legion
I think that is why prior to 7.3 he dropped his mage and rerolled a retardin XD
Not all legos were equal, at least for mage, some were total sh8t, he wanted the no bloodlust debuff one and he never got it

I never said all legos were equal. As a warlock who was destruction until 7.1.5 and only had pants and the neck as his best 2 for a while, I 100% whole heartily agree with that.

But we sold M+10 and 15 runs every week. The number of legos we would get around the 20 or so folks that ran the discord with myself was very consistent with 1 every week to week and half. That is with us playing everyday, doing all 4 raid tiers, emissaries, etc. Literally anything to add MORE BLP, we did that. World Bosses, etc. And the only folks who didn't get them at that rate, were the folks who didn't play. That was my main point, and I had tons of guildies that were closely following it.

[Kalisandra]

the war campaign is suramar questline but without grinding wqs in one zone. The suramar questline wasn't any longer than the entire war campaign.

You could skip it on alts and not really notice. Later, on you had to do a certain amount to be in phase for some WQs in Suramar city, but that was it - hardly a big deal. Not doing at least the levelling part of the War Campaign messes things up for alts. Then you need to open Nazjatar, etc., Then you need to do the damned cloak and invasion questline, which still isn't super-short. Getting an alt up to speed, not as a main, but just to do all the current content and make use of corrupted gear, is a right pain.

It was much easier by this point in Legion. Funnily enough, alts started out suffering in Leigon, and that was fixed. In BfA it's just gotten worse and worse for them, and the increasing amount of time it takes to do the expected daily and weekly chores for a main hasn't helped.

[sam86]

I never said all legos were equal. As a warlock who was destruction until 7.1.5 and only had pants and the neck as his best 2 for a while, I 100% whole heartily agree with that.

But we sold M+10 and 15 runs every week. The number of legos we would get around the 20 or so folks that ran the discord with myself was very consistent with 1 every week to week and half. That is with us playing everyday, doing all 4 raid tiers, emissaries, etc. Literally anything to add MORE BLP, we did that. World Bosses, etc. And the only folks who didn't get them at that rate, were the folks who didn't play. That was my main point, and I had tons of guildies that were closely following it.

yeah i see ur point
after all my friend did get 2 legos that ramped up the chance of a 3rd lego drop very high, he got 2 sh8t ones, but he got 2 (one of them was the infamous neck, easily worst lego in legion imo even for tanks)
i don't think that what he meant, but if i play devil advocate, maybe that what he did mean, like my rl friend, he wanted to get the best legos, but he got the sh8t ones and farmed non stop and still didn't get the great ones

Also all that talk about legos reminded me why titanforge wasn't that big deal in Legion as in BFA, because legendary items don't titanforge and they are maxed, now add to it also tier sets and the amazing artifact, and u get only 5-6 items total that u need to titanforge max to get the best gear, still impossible but the chance u get at least 1/6 is very high
in compare in BFA, u need to get titanforge for everything AND the non titanforge items to be with the traits u want... basically every single item is target for RNGods except neck

You could skip it on alts and not really notice. Later, on you had to do a certain amount to be in phase for some WQs in Suramar city, but that was it - hardly a big deal. Not doing at least the levelling part of the War Campaign messes things up for alts. Then you need to open Nazjatar, etc., Then you need to do the damned cloak and invasion questline, which still isn't super-short. Getting an alt up to speed, not as a main, but just to do all the current content and make use of corrupted gear, is a right pain.

It was much easier by this point in Legion. Funnily enough, alts started out suffering in Leigon, and that was fixed. In BfA it's just gotten worse and worse for them, and the increasing amount of time it takes to do the expected daily and weekly chores for a main hasn't helped.

not to mention Sarumar starting quests gave MASSIVE AP tokens, a reward valid from start of game to its end, the best

[TheVaryag]

To me, BfA is almost exactly the same as Legion.

It's the same focus on world quests. One daily quest with bigger reward etc.

It's the same focus on M+. The same key system, and endless scaling of dungeons in a "modern" GOGOGO AoE fashion.

It's the same Raiding system. 4 difficulties. LFR, Normal, Heroic and Mythic.

It's the same questing system.

It's the same AP grind.

It's the same Titanforging system.

It's actually a bit BETTER system than the "no gear should matter in PvP", "100% random garbage ilvl PvP gear" PvP system we had in Legion.

To me, it seems like the only reason people liked Legion was because of the transmogs on your cool weapons. And people seem salty that BfA don't have Class sets (another transmog argument). Is it really this easy to make you enjoy an expansion? Cool transmogs = good expansion?

Basically people who say Legion was good are like "Mage tower us gut... and uh... order hall campaign... and cool weapons..." and that's about It, that's like saying well the zones in Bfa look amazing, the dungeons are okay, the pixels are kinda nice, 10/10.... no that makes no damn sense. They nitpick things that were pretty average at best, Imean everyone running around with Ashbringer was kinda kek. Order hall campaigns were unpolished stories at best that had to rewrite half the lore to make sense, and even now It makes no sense. The Paladin and Priest ones are nearly identical If not simply copy pasted from one to the other. The way you aquire the legendary weapons per class/spec Is sorely lacking, and I did the research too:

There's 36 legendary weapons In total and 20 of them share stories with at least two other artifact weapons, down to the same NPCs or final areas, and only 16 of these weapons have a truly unique questline attached to them. From a billion dollar company like Blizzard I expect more.

I'm done being nice about it, Blizzard are fudging up day after day for 15 years. And a game like ff14 In half the time, roughly 7 years now has remade It's game Into a titanic rival of WoW and has overtaken It In it's last two expansions.

BfA Is a worse Legion and that's already saying alot since Legion wasn't that great, I'm sorry to say. In retrospect, despite my hate of Pandas and pandaland it was a good expansion gameplay wise, idea wise and even lore wise If you stretch some of It. To me, the downfall of WoW started at the tail end of Wrath, up to WoD when the downfall sped up and took us right down Into the abyss, since WoD It's been nothing but failure and It will all ultimately culminate In Shadowlands, the shadowbringing. With Mary Sue at the end coming out as a Kerrigan of Wow "I was saving you all along and get a redemption arc cause you all like my rule 34 stuff" and so on.

TL;DR - Legion was bad, so Is BfA and so will be Shadowbringers...lands, the fact we don't even have info from the devs about a beta or upcoming features or ideas tells me we're realisticly looking at Q1 2021 release for the expansion, but since It's activision I see It at Q3-4 of 2020 and It'll be broken as fudge.

[Sliske]

1. Better class design. BFA feels like Legion lite. Like one of those trash WoW clones they used to spew out in the early 2010s. Why the fuck is wings on the GCD?
2. Worse lore. To the point that virtually every aspect of it is viewed as a meme at this point. Zandalar being Wakanda, the whole 'morally grey' meme, anduin crying for no reason, Baine being an enormous pussy for no reason at all, Greymane being Garrosh 2.0, Teldrassil burning down and the Alliance just being like "welp, cant win em all", Tyrande dark souls red eye demon mode
3. Warfronts were literally just an enormous waste of resources, lets just accept that. At least previous failed experiments worked for a few weeks or months, like Garrisons. Warfronts were DOA and can't be recovered. They're as boring as events in GW2.
4. Essences doing 20% of your damage feels terrible. Every class feels exactly the same, but you can't even play other classes, because alts are a nightmare.
5. Corruption, same as above. Its early Legion legendaries all over again. One character gets tier 3 infinite stars, the other gets tier 1 leech. What one are you going to play? Complete RNG.
6. M+ is just worse. Legion was mostly about bosses, BFAs response was to triple the amount of trash in every dungeon. Actually just feast your eyes on Motherlode or Shrine of the Storms. They're unbearably slow, not because they're big, but because Blizzard's new dungeon philosophy seems to be "there must be a mob every 20 yards, or 3 generations of our families die."
7. The art. God damn, where did the art team go? Did they all get laid off? How we can go from 24 armor sets per tier, to 24 armor sets in an entire expansion, is beyond me. Seriously - try it. Combine every armor set from, say, the Tomb of Sargeras patch, now combine every armor set from all of BFA.
8. Tier sets. Oh whats that, a reason to raid? Lemme just remove that
9. Raiding is just worse. 4 armor sets per tier, no tier sets at all, the bosses have no lore behind them and no one gives a fuck. Who the hell is G'huun? You never see him, now hes the end boss. Compare this to Xavius, Ellisande, Helya, Kil'jaeden or Argus/Sargeras.
10. The Handling of N'Zoth. N'Zoth is so drawn out at this point, that he is less interesting than the Defias Brotherhood. Think about it. Every single expansion, including Vanilla, has had old god bullshit in it. If Black Dragons show up, its N'Zoth. None of them are interesting. Every single one is the same. They try to distinguish between them, but they're the same. Same lines, same abilities, same same same. YOUR HEART WILL EXPLODE. YOU WILL DIE. YOU ARE THE AFRAID. IM GOING TO DRIVE U INSANE. YOUR FRIENDS WILL KILL U. Yes, we get it C'thun, or no wait that was Yogg Saron, nope my bad - it was Y'shaarj/Garrosh, ah nevermind thats right, it was N'Zoth. Old Gods are boring as fuck, but holy shit they handled N'Zoth so bad they made him a wallpaper hahaha.
11. City design. Whoever thought Dazar'alor was fun to navigate is sniffing cocaine too much. We had to endure this shit for an entire year without mounts.
12. THE LAG. WHAT THE FUCK IS WITH THE LAG. Nazmir, Stormsong Valley, Zuldazar and Tiragarde Sound - for over a year, almost permanately lagging. Only recently have they stopped being ALWAYS laggy and now they're instead just sometimes laggy. Nazjatar, good luck playing the game for an entire hour if battle of nazjatar shows up. Literally the second it spawns, you can no longer play. Now its in Uldum and Vale. Did Suramar lag? Did the Broken Isles? Did Argus?


Probably a lot more, but yeah - we traded great art, great lore, great gameplay, great side stuff like Mage Tower and Order Halls, tier sets, great armor, great mounts, great zones in a lag free experience and we got all of the above in return.

I'm not sure whats worse - 3.3 heading into Cataclysm, 5.4 heading into Warlords of Draenor, or 7.3.5 heading into Battle for Azeroth. Honestly, i'm gonna say its BFA. I played the other two. I tapped out of BFA after a month and didn't come back until Naz. Holy shit the game was so bad at 8.0 and only now, when they've given us 40% haste and the ability to one shot daily mobs, does the game finally feel bearable, thanks to us being able to get it over with quicker, like dry fucking anal.

[agentsi]

yeah i see ur point
after all my friend did get 2 legos that ramped up the chance of a 3rd lego drop very high, he got 2 sh8t ones, but he got 2 (one of them was the infamous neck, easily worst lego in legion imo even for tanks)
i don't think that what he meant, but if i play devil advocate, maybe that what he did mean, like my rl friend, he wanted to get the best legos, but he got the sh8t ones and farmed non stop and still didn't get the great ones

Also all that talk about legos reminded me why titanforge wasn't that big deal in Legion as in BFA, because legendary items don't titanforge and they are maxed, now add to it also tier sets and the amazing artifact, and u get only 5-6 items total that u need to titanforge max to get the best gear, still impossible but the chance u get at least 1/6 is very high
in compare in BFA, u need to get titanforge for everything AND the non titanforge items to be with the traits u want... basically every single item is target for RNGods except neck


not to mention Sarumar starting quests gave MASSIVE AP tokens, a reward valid from start of game to its end, the best

You're right about Titanforging, I prefer it over corruption 100%. I liked it personally, I just wish it had a cap of 15 ilvls instead of 45 on occasion. Gave you a reason to run things over and over and over.

[Musta]

You can be done with Azerite too.

It doesnt matter if classes suck.

[sam86]

It doesnt matter if classes suck.

and it IS official, blizz flat out admit that they made class s8cks in BFA

[docterfreeze]

I see through all the fluff and it's clear both had terrible class design. Both are equally bad.

[Stacko]

Regarding your M+ point, the dungeons in Legion were 100x better.

[Maxilian]

Well... class order hall was nice, and some classes were better, after they took out the Legion Artifact Weapon, some classes felt like they lost something really important. (Looking at you Survival Hunter)