Soulbinds - The new Talent Trees

[Big Thanks]

So there is an alpha Soulbind calculator on wowhead

https://shadowlands.wowhead.com/soulbind-calc

--------------------

Im a huge nerd for customization in gameplay...and it breaks my hearts seeing so many useless choices...in a system i was so excited about.

For example Bonesmith Heirmir is complete garbage. Take a look
His LAST trait is to cast spells for 10 seconds...after you die

Before that is a choice between:
1) More mount speed when u get hit
2) Receive extra materials when you do arena battlegrounds, raids or dungeons

Before that, one option is completely overpowered compared to the other ones.
Do you want 20% more crit rating for 10 seconds every minute....OR....you want 25% increased mov speed once per minute

Lets take a look at Emeni
Congratulations to the developer that invented this trait.
He managed to create the most useless option in the entire game. He needs a prize:
Cartilaginous Legs: After taking falling damage, the health lost becomes a shield lasting 30 sec.

---------

There are way too many examples of useless choices for combat AND way too many soulbinds are only usefull for Mythic+ dungeons (aka "when target dies do something)
There are also some extremely good ones on the mix

I know i am biased because all i think about is customization in gameplay...but man...is hard to imagine anyone being excited about many of this choices...

[Trumpcat]

These are hardly trees, but linear passive power progression. If our classes remain a basic template on which to apply expansion specific power systems I could really find it hard to be excited. Hope to know more on class design soon.

[Big Thanks]

These are hardly trees, but linear passive power progression.

I see 3 different things you can have...choices i mean.
Not many for sure...but good enough

[Very rare pepe]

Why not just give us another talent row with some new abilities? Why are we now consistently getting rented powers? Does anyone actually want rented power for an expansion?

I just don't understand the thinking behind these systems. It's what leads to the start of a next expansion feel like you get weaker as you level. A lose lose situation.

[Kumorii]

Why not just give us another talent row with some new abilities? Why are we now consistently getting rented powers? Does anyone actually want rented power for an expansion?

Because you can't continuously build and give new abilities forever... eventually we end up with countless abilities which becomes a nightmare for both players and devs.

[Beefhammer]

I see 3 different things you can have...choices i mean.
Not many for sure...but good enough

People expect tons of branching paths or else it's not a "tree" to them at the same time unless it's from an old game or an older iteration of WoW, some of the same complainers complain about % increases as choices, when that's what the majority of skill trees are filled with.

This soulbund system is fine for what it is.

- - - Updated - - -

Because you can't continuously build and give new abilities forever... eventually we end up with countless abilities which becomes a nightmare for both players and devs.

This so much. Apparently people don't bother thinking before posting.

[Big Thanks]

Because you can't continuously build and give new abilities forever... eventually we end up with countless abilities which becomes a nightmare for both players and devs.

what does he mean by "rented powers"?
Like...we can only use it in shadowlands and not "next expansion"?
Dont see the problem. Standard design since forever.

[ArtistOfWar]

People expect tons of branching paths or else it's not a "tree" to them at the same time unless it's from an old game or an older iteration of WoW, some of the same complainers complain about % increases as choices, when that's what the majority of skill trees are filled with.

This soulbund system is fine for what it is.

- - - Updated - - -

This so much. Apparently people don't bother thinking before posting.

All I took from this is that people forget that palm trees exist, because that’s exactly what the OP’s picture is of. Looks like a tree to me!

[Kumorii]

what does he mean by "rented powers"?
Like...we can only use it in shadowlands and not "next expansion"?
Dont see the problem. Standard design since forever.

Powers that are only relevant in it's current expansion yes... Azerite pieces and HoA are examples of such. Same as legendaries and the artifacts from legion etc etc.

[Gephyrophobia]

Because you can't continuously build and give new abilities forever... eventually we end up with countless abilities which becomes a nightmare for both players and devs.

Who is asking for new abilities in the first place? Why? You find a spec that you like to play, and 2 years later they change it all around and you have to try again. That's why I quit.

[Nevcairiel]

Who is asking for new abilities in the first place? Why? You find a spec that you like to play, and 2 years later they change it all around and you have to try again. That's why I quit.

They've really mostly stopped doing that now anyway, for exactly that reason - they don't want to change it out from under the players all the time.

Of course, now the other half is complaining that there are no class changes.

[TickTickTick]

what does he mean by "rented powers"?
Like...we can only use it in shadowlands and not "next expansion"?
Dont see the problem. Standard design since forever.

Previous expansions is "since forever" now?

[RobertMugabe]

This so much. Apparently people don't bother thinking before posting.

Because you can't continuously build and give new abilities forever... eventually we end up with countless abilities which becomes a nightmare for both players and devs.

LOLOL. The irony of this is that both of you are wrong.

The only reason they're doing these "rented powers" is because it is just so much easier to balance the classes how they like and easily reset everything with the next expansion. This has nothing to do with ability bloat.

It's a super common and yet very lazy approach to game design.

[Big Thanks]

Previous expansions is "since forever" now?

isnt everything in wow "temporary"? Even abilities are temporary sometimes...every expansion something gets removed/replaced?

[Beefhammer]

LOLOL. The irony of this is that both of you are wrong.

The only reason they're doing these "rented powers" is because it is just so much easier to balance the classes how they like and easily reset everything with the next expansion. This has nothing to do with ability bloat.

It's a super common and yet very lazy approach to game design.

No, people that think just adding new rows is the easy thing to donor something they should do are the same type of people who bitch and moan about balancing and things taking too long to fix.

Well no fucking shit. The more high talents we get the more balancing that has to be done the longer it takes to do so. Shit like this is a lot easier to balance and a lot easier to implement.

I never said a thing about bloat just that people do not think.

[TickTickTick]

isnt everything in wow "temporary"? Even abilities are temporary sometimes...every expansion something gets removed/replaced?

Don't mistake prunning with rented powers. They are two entirely different things.

[huth]

Don't mistake prunning with rented powers. They are two entirely different things.

No, your "rented" powers are simply ones that will be pruned at a predetermined point in time. There is very little difference.

[Kumorii]

LOLOL. The irony of this is that both of you are wrong.

The only reason they're doing these "rented powers" is because it is just so much easier to balance the classes how they like and easily reset everything with the next expansion. This has nothing to do with ability bloat.

It's a super common and yet very lazy approach to game design.

No, having abilities added constantly and keep forever leads to bloat regardless of what you say.

- - - Updated - - -

Who is asking for new abilities in the first place? Why? You find a spec that you like to play, and 2 years later they change it all around and you have to try again. That's why I quit.

I for one like it when things changes around... But I in general like changes in most games or in life. Having the same abilities means you will play the same. Getting new ones shake things up.

Looking forward to play my mage in a new way next expansion.

[TickTickTick]

No, your "rented" powers are simply ones that will be pruned at a predetermined point in time. There is very little difference.

There is a difference.

Talent abilities added in previous expansions are abilities that are expected to stay. Yes, Blizzard is pruning abilities from time to time, but you don't know which ones will be pruned and when.

Rented powers are exclusively expansion things. The moment you receive your first azerite or essence, you know it will be gone in next expansion. Just look at how many playstyles have been eradicated after Legion, because Legiondaries are no longer a thing - and it was expected to be so.

And let's not pretend that important, spec defining abilities are the target of prunning. More ofthen than not the ones pruned are some meaningless / low impact abilities anyway.

So the only thing connecting these two is that they are abilities and will be removed. When, why, what is their impact, how do you gain them - it's completely different. It's like comparing orange to pineapple - yeah they are both fruits. But they are also very different fruits.

[Jester Joe]

LOLOL. The irony of this is that both of you are wrong.

The only reason they're doing these "rented powers" is because it is just so much easier to balance the classes how they like and easily reset everything with the next expansion. This has nothing to do with ability bloat.

It's a super common and yet very lazy approach to game design.

How is it "so much easier to balance the classes" by adding a system that affects all classes?

This isn't azerite. One soulbind might be ridiculously overpowered for one class, but trash for another, so it can't really be buffed for the one its trash for and make it more broken for another.

Something like Azerite essences, sure, those can work for tuning since they're spec/class specific, but even then if you honestly think it's easier to balance classes when they have MORE systems to them than just baseline abilities, well, you'd be wrong.