Why are so many Alliance factions open to the Horde?

[StationaryHawk]

Because these comparisons don't make any sense. If you want to have an answer, then yes, I would fire all my Chinese employees if their government told them to burn down my factory, knowing that they'd likely obey.

Misquote, perhaps? I mentioned nothing about the Chinese.

There's also no evidence of Tauren/Troll members of the Cenarion Circle participating in the War of the Thorns, or of Sylvanas demanding their participation. In fact, save for the Divine Bell, there's no evidence of either faction taking advantage of neutral factions to gain the upperhand over the other.

[Ardenaso]

Misquote, perhaps? I mentioned nothing about the Chinese.

There's also no evidence of Tauren/Troll members of the Cenarion Circle participating in the War of the Thorns, or of Sylvanas demanding their participation. In fact, save for the Divine Bell, there's no evidence of either faction taking advantage of neutral factions to gain the upperhand over the other.

yes, it's the opposite. Sylvanas sent them away so they wouldn't interfere in her killing Malfurion

since Hamuul regretted on being the lead advocate for allowing the Forsaken to the Horde, I'd assume in his wavelength that the Horde Cenarios would've joined Saurfang too

[Ielenia]

I would fire the Chinese employees if they were sympathetic to the cause that includes killing me off because Xi Jinping told them so and they followed without hesitation

I'll repeat what I wrote in that quote of mine: regardless of affiliation.

[Maljinwo]

The Alliance factions go neutral

The Horde gets their leaders killed off

[Flurryfang]

So what's the deal with making factions that were originally Alliance affiliated neutral? It's honestly insulting to Alliance players that iconic alliance factions are now open to the Horde. Examples of these factions include:

- The Kirin Tor. I know that they've always had strong ties with Silvermoon but it was originally a human kingdom. And we all know how the Horde betrayed them back in MoP.

- Argent Dawn (now Argent Crusade).

- Knights of the Silver Hand. Originally a human organisation of Paladins, now Paladins of every race are allowed in (including Blood Elves and Tauren).

- Cenarion Circle and Cenarion Expedition. I know this is technically a Night Elf organisation, but anyway. This one makes the least sense of them all. Not even Night Elf women were allowed in when it was first founded. Now every idiot that can grow a pumpkin gets a membership. It makes even less sense after the War of Thorns. Malfurion is the leader of the CC, why hasn't he kicked out all the Tauren and Trolls yet?

- The Wardens. Led by quite possible the most xenophobic Night Elf out there, yet they have no trouble working together with the Horde. Eventually bites them in the ass when Nathanos kills Sira and raises her as a forsaken.

Because the horde races are not depicted as evil in the game, which is also why most of the Alliance factions were also friendly with the Horde in the past. The Kirin Tor, Argent Dawn and Knights of the Silver Hand are all pretty focused around dealing with a big problem, so if you are white, blue or green should matter little for them.
The Cenarion Circle and the Cenarion Expedition are a first and foremost a druidic faction, so since the Taurens are druids, the rest of the Horde can be easily seen as allies.

The Wardens were wierd, but since they are a faction with one purpose, to either keep illidan captured or fight the Legion, Horde or Alliance matters little.

The thing with most sub-factions in the game, is that they see no evil in the Horde or Alliance, just able bodies who want to fight against the common enemy. We don't play in a world, where factions are evil and the war between the Horde and Alliance is well... between the Horde and Alliance. All other factions care little about it and just wants help.

[Ardenaso]

The Alliance factions go neutral

The Horde gets their leaders killed off

The Horde gets their leaders killed off while the Alliance gets their general populace killed off

- - - Updated - - -

Also, the Wardens all fought in the Battle for Darkshore; and the Silver Hand all fought in the Battle for Stromguarde.

The Sunwalkers and the Blood Knights already left the Silver Hand as of BFA

[Maljinwo]

The Horde gets their leaders killed off while the Alliance gets their general populace killed off

General populace deaths in WoW have almost no consequences in Warcraft though. No one runs out of resources or army apparently

[Grythletubs]

In the case of the shatar, kirin tor, cenarion, argent dawn, wardens, etc.

They were all alliance centric but neutral for the sake of the world.

The kirin tor are probably the best example of this since you could tell that the npcs were still not super friendly towards horde characters.

But as we saw the wardens and cenarion both faught for the alliance when the horde attacked the night elves.

If the kirin tor were to be involved in BfA (but they weren't since Blizz shelved them), I highly doubt they would be supporting the horde's genocidal campaign.


That being said, I do find it kinda silly that there are no horde centric neutral factions other than maybe earthen ring.

Like every shared main city hub has been an alliance one so far. I think it'd be cool to have a neutral horde centric main expansion stronghold alternative to Dal and Shat.

For now Blizzard only writes the horde to be warmongering twats every time a major threat is taken care of and it's really dumb.

[qwerty123456]

Which, at their core, means they are two different groups with different ideologies.

- - - Updated - - -


Yeah, and so what? None of those races are part of the Cenarion Circle. And as for the Argent Crusade, look at the characters: they're not representative of their respective races' bad traits, like Leonid Barthalomew.

I didn't say I believed what they had said just that your analogy is terribly flawed.

Then why would you suggest that Staghelm represents the entire Alliance?

But anyways the fact of the matter is that in order to survive you lump things together like if you have a bunch of bad experiences with dogs you are going to be wary of all dogs. So if a people side with a group that goes against everything you believe you are going to be more wary of them. And you certainly wouldn't stay out of a conflict between them and a people you side with knowing what will happen to the very nature you hold dear if the one side wins.

[Grazrug]

Sometimes I feel these kind of topics are meant for baiting. Especially when they blow up.

- - - Updated - - -

Because outside from faction conflict expansions the Horde is utterly irrelevant for the story and Blizzard can't even be bothered to use or create proper factions for them.

That is why i have to constantly follow fucking Brann Bronzebeard from the Explorers League around with my Horde characters, instead of following Highwatcher Tae'thelan Bloodwatcher from the Reliquary. Or why i have to follow Khadgar through WoD as a Horde character, instead of some Horde mage/warlock/shaman whatever doing his job. As, again, Blizzard can't even be arsed to build up a proper Horde mage like Rommath for example.

From the first page. Nailed it. It's not bias. Just Blizzards incompetence writing both sides relevant.

[Jaggler]

I mean, it's always been a meme, that Alliance characters become neutral and Horde characters get turned evil.

[Aeula]

- The Kirin Tor. And we all know how the Horde betrayed them back in MoP.

Other way around. The Kirin Tor betrayed the Horde civilians living in Dalaran. Ultimately they were never actually neutral. All it took was one mad leader who didn't bother consulting the council and they all followed like sheep back to the Alliance.

[baskev]

It is quite common in WoW that whomever is prevalent in zone is going to be slaughtered. Zandalar is about killing trolls, Mechagon is about killing mechagnomes and so on.

Yes and no....because you sidestep some important things in your comparison.
- First off those are allied races. Not 1 of the core races
- secondly we spent a shit ton of time questing etc ( getting rep) in those zones.
- we get a lot of new lore for those zones
- we get dungeons end/or raids for those zones
- and those zones are 1 piece of land. Not all the lands for all the people's.
- was dazalhor burned down to a crisp???

The problem i have ( and you are clearly sidestepping) is not that it happend to us. But how its storywise ( or better said lack off) handeld.

They were only officially neutral. I have a question for you. What was leader of Kirin Tor doing in Theramore?

i have a questions for you:
- Who was the founder of theramore
- who got warned by the horde ( cow prince) of the attack on said persons home town.


And btw....theramore was at the start of mist of pandaria. And even after that jaina was still not willing to kick the sunreavers out of dalaran. She only did that AFTER garrosh bell thing.

GG on completely failing at lore.

[Nerovar]

Durotar for Orcs, Mulgore for Tauren, Quel'Thalas for Blood Elves, Eastern Kingdoms for all. Stay woke.

[Trumpcat]

Because the Alliance are systematically written down and dismantled to make room for the Horde. And it is the Horde's identity to get in the front line and tell you how founding Alliance kingdoms and factions weren't actually Alliance and they belong to tribal barbarians that invaded from another planet.

[Ielenia]

I didn't say I believed what they had said just that your analogy is terribly flawed.

Then why would you suggest that Staghelm represents the entire Alliance?

I didn't say that to you. I was responding to the OP who believes all members of the Horde should be kicked out of the Cenarion Circle, regardless of affiliation and if they agree or not with the Horde's leadership.

[Moonrage]

Misquote, perhaps? I mentioned nothing about the Chinese.

There's also no evidence of Tauren/Troll members of the Cenarion Circle participating in the War of the Thorns, or of Sylvanas demanding their participation. In fact, save for the Divine Bell, there's no evidence of either faction taking advantage of neutral factions to gain the upperhand over the other.

You mentioned comparisons, I thought you were talking about the Chinese comparison someone made earlier.

- - - Updated - - -

Dalaran was founded by human merchants that were later bought out by human magi.

Source? I just looked it up and it isn't mentioned anywhere on wowpedia. Most Dalaran magi hailed from Storm, and the citizens of Dalaran tolerated their presence. In turn, the magi protected the civilians. It was a mutually beneficial agreement.

It wasn't until later that Dalaran established a friendship with the High Elves.

[matrix123mko]

Yes and no....because you sidestep some important things in your comparison.
- First off those are allied races. Not 1 of the core races
- secondly we spent a shit ton of time questing etc ( getting rep) in those zones.
- we get a lot of new lore for those zones
- we get dungeons end/or raids for those zones
- and those zones are 1 piece of land. Not all the lands for all the people's.
- was dazalhor burned down to a crisp???

The problem i have ( and you are clearly sidestepping) is not that it happend to us. But how its storywise ( or better said lack off) handeld.

Forsaken lost their Lordaeron too. You can say that the capital was blighted by Sylvanas(which was a part of the defence anyway) but the all the settlements around were burned by Alliance artillery.

i have a questions for you:
- Who was the founder of theramore

Jaina, princess of Kul Tiras.

- who got warned by the horde ( cow prince) of the attack on said persons home town.

Jaina, lady of Theramore.

And btw....theramore was at the start of mist of pandaria. And even after that jaina was still not willing to kick the sunreavers out of dalaran. She only did that AFTER garrosh bell thing.

GG on completely failing at lore.

That doesn't change the fact that Dalaran broke neutrality before Theramore.

[Varodoc]

As traitors to their own nation, those 'scholars' have no such affiliation

The point is that Alleria (an Alliance leader) has no problem welcoming former Horde members into Telogrus Rift. You don't see that happening very often.

[yani9841]

- The Kirin Tor. I know that they've always had strong ties with Silvermoon but it was originally a human kingdom. And we all know how the Horde betrayed them back in MoP.

I don't remember the horde betraying the kirin tor in MoP. I remember Jaina abusing her authority and ignoring the Council entirely to throw a tantrum targeting civilians who weren't even involved.

- Argent Dawn (now Argent Crusade).

argent crusade isn't the Argent dawn. Lets start there... and I don't believe teh argent dawn was actually part of the 'Alliance' to begin with. The Silver hand was, to be sure, but that is what broke down into the Scarlet Crusade and the Argent Dawn following the events of the third war.
[QUOTE=Moonrage;52178322]
- Knights of the Silver Hand. Originally a human organisation of Paladins, now Paladins of every race are allowed in (including Blood Elves and Tauren).[p/quote]

This was true in Legion, but the Knights of the Silver Hand show up to fight exclusively for the alliance in Arathi and the blood elf and tauren paladins are not counted among their numbers.

Looking at their page post BFA has no horde ranks among it

- Cenarion Circle and Cenarion Expedition. I know this is technically a Night Elf organisation, but anyway. This one makes the least sense of them all. Not even Night Elf women were allowed in when it was first founded. Now every idiot that can grow a pumpkin gets a membership. It makes even less sense after the War of Thorns. Malfurion is the leader of the CC, why hasn't he kicked out all the Tauren and Trolls yet?

Leadership of the circle isn't exclusively in Malfurion's hands. It seems to be Malfurion, Hamuul Runetotem, Cenarius.. and the player cause fuck all for sensible story telling (Silver Hand has a similar problem).

Also I'm not sure I'd lump the expedition and the Circle into the same category.

- The Wardens. Led by quite possible the most xenophobic Night Elf out there, yet they have no trouble working together with the Horde. Eventually bites them in the ass when Nathanos kills Sira and raises her as a forsaken.

This one is fucked from the get go because it turns out the wardens are already changing their tune by working with their jailed subjects or turning to join the legion...