Why are so many Alliance factions open to the Horde?

[Syegfryed]

Because alliance bias.

No serious, they are all good factions, already established, the horde had none, better shove then there than create a new one.

[matrix123mko]

Source? I just looked it up and it isn't mentioned anywhere on wowpedia. Most Dalaran magi hailed from Storm, and the citizens of Dalaran tolerated their presence. In turn, the magi protected the civilians. It was a mutually beneficial agreement.

I looked onto WoWpedia and I admit that I was wrong about buying out Dalaran. Ardogan just won the election in democratic trading outpost and then changed the type of government to magocracy.

It wasn't until later that Dalaran established a friendship with the High Elves.

Friendship is something that you develop over ages. They weren't friends with high elves at first but they were clearly unfriendly to rest of humans.

[yani9841]

Because alliance bias.

No serious, they are all good factions, already established, the had had none, better shove then there than create a new one.

This is also true. Any alliance faction that was less than lawful or less than good was made into an enemy faction towards everyone.

Also, alliance home field advantage and no real pre-third war information for non-elves

[baskev]

Forsaken lost their Lordaeron too. You can say that the capital was blighted by Sylvanas(which was a part of the defence anyway) but the all the settlements around were burned by Alliance artillery.

Correct....but did the alliance start the fire of war?? Nope.
Horde did with azerite farming and burning of teldrassil

Jaina, princess of Kul Tiras.

Jaina, lady of Theramore.

For both of the above...why should she be there if she is neutral.....because its her home town.

That doesn't change the fact that Dalaran broke neutrality before Theramore.

Think your timeline is broken.

therarmore happens > kirin tor is still open to horde

Only AFTER bell thing horde is kicked out.


So please explain me how they did. Because yes their leader defended her home town. But after that the horde where still welcome on dalaran....so how is that not neutral? I base things on that happend ingame or from wowpedia etc.....Not my fantasy.



And we are getting of subject. The main question of this thread is....why are they still open to the whole of the horde. While many of these groups are mostly or originate from alliance races. Or why do contradict/assault the core believes of said factions.
Because lets be real. horde has done a lot of things to nature and the elements that are reasons enough to kick them out of druids and shaman groups.
to the undead ( dk) to proof they counter their believes of free undead will.
etc etc etc
And they keep doing that stuff. First garrosh, now sylvanas .
So the ingame question is simple: because its a game.
But the lore question is...why??

[Verdugo]

So please explain me how they did. Because yes their leader defended her home town. But after that the horde where still welcome on dalaran....so how is that not neutral? I base things on that happend ingame or from wowpedia etc.....Not my fantasy.

Jaina was setting traps specificaly to prevent Horde from getting the bell. When the Horde went around them, she started a tantrum.

[Arikara]

The point is that Alleria (an Alliance leader) has no problem welcoming former Horde members into Telogrus Rift. You don't see that happening very often.

She wouldn't have a faction at all if she wasn't willing to welcome the lowest of scum to her banal cause

As for how often that happens, I'd say look at the entire list that OP made at the start of this thread, plus several others. Except most or all of those would turn away edgy elves from joining their roster. Even forsaken are more welcome

[Varodoc]

She wouldn't have a faction at all if she wasn't willing to welcome the lowest of scum to her banal cause

As for how often that happens, I'd say look at the entire list that OP made at the start of this thread, plus several others. Except most or all of those would turn away edgy elves from joining their roster. Even forsaken are more welcome

Ouch, did a void elf kick your dog?

[Mehrunes]

Think your timeline is broken.

therarmore happens > kirin tor is still open to horde

Only AFTER bell thing horde is kicked out.

So please explain me how they did. Because yes their leader defended her home town. But after that the horde where still welcome on dalaran....so how is that not neutral? I base things on that happend ingame or from wowpedia etc.....Not my fantasy.

That doesn't change the fact that Dalaran helped Theramore against the Horde. And before Jaina went to Dalaran to ask them for help she herself admitted that requesting their help would be asking them to break their neutrality...

And we are getting of subject. The main question of this thread is....why are they still open to the whole of the horde. While many of these groups are mostly or originate from alliance races. Or why do contradict/assault the core believes of said factions.
Because lets be real. horde has done a lot of things to nature and the elements that are reasons enough to kick them out of druids and shaman groups.
to the undead ( dk) to proof they counter their believes of free undead will.
etc etc etc
And they keep doing that stuff. First garrosh, now sylvanas .
So the ingame question is simple: because its a game.
But the lore question is...why??

Ah, yes, the Ebon Blade - an organization that resurrects people as ghoul slaves (even just to torment them like they did to the Scarlet Onslaught) - totally cares about undead free will. Also, the Shaman organization was originally Horde.

[matrix123mko]

This is also true. Any alliance faction that was less than lawful or less than good was made into an enemy faction towards everyone.

Also, alliance home field advantage and no real pre-third war information for non-elves

Do I have to speak about all the Horde factions that were obliterated? Stormreavers and Sunfury are only the tip of an iceberg.

[Nathasil]

I would argue it goes much further than just factions:

- Blood Elves are, as Ion said, High Elves. One of the oldest core Alliance races of the franchise. They had to not only give the Horde access to one of the core Alliance races of the franchise, no, EXCLUSIVE access to this day.

- Nightborne are Night Elves. Again, exclusive access to the Horde.

- Druids; the only race that ever had Druids in the lore were Night Elves. Access given to the Horde.

The reason:
Up until WoW the Alliance was actually the diverse and politically interesting faction of Warcraft (Elves, Gnomes, Dwarves) while the Horde was just a bunch of racist brutes. Yes, there was some politics going on in the original Horde, but not on par with what the Alliance had.
Also, everything that comes down to "protecting Azeroth" almost always is very Alliance-themed.

Since Blizzard wants the overall narrative of the game (told by dungeons+raids and quests) to almost always be identical for both factions (and there is no realistical alternative to that, either), they HAD TO "alliancify" the Horde.

Result:
The Horde is now more diverse than the Alliance, mostly because of Alliance races (undead Humans are still Humans). Everything interesting they can think of for Alliance races is instead added to the Horde-mirrors, making the Alliance the "PvE background faction" that is just a blob nobody at Blizzard gives a fuck about.

The original Horde theme from WC1+2 is completely gone. The Alliance theme from WC1+2+3 has been given to the Horde.

Both factions are completely fucked up and none of their stories make any sense anymore.

[yani9841]

And we are getting of subject. The main question of this thread is....why are they still open to the whole of the horde. While many of these groups are mostly or originate from alliance races. Or why do contradict/assault the core believes of said factions.
Because lets be real. horde has done a lot of things to nature and the elements that are reasons enough to kick them out of druids and shaman groups.
to the undead ( dk) to proof they counter their believes of free undead will.
etc etc etc
And they keep doing that stuff. First garrosh, now sylvanas .
So the ingame question is simple: because its a game.
But the lore question is...why??

I think you're to quickly trying to lay blame for all the races/denizens of a group because of a fringe group. By that logic do we pan all the humans because of Medivh's actions?

IMO the nation of Dalaran went neutral likely due to the fact that some members of council sought out forces that wound up in the horde and council wound up taking on that whole joke of a mindset of uniting against real threats instead of faction war.

It's not like only horde leaders have gone off the deep end and caused mass casualties... but we just keep blaming the horde everytime one does. When an alliance figure head does it they are exorcised from the faction with a quickness and almost entirely forgotten that they were every associated with the group.


Hell, we're still picking up the pieces from when the last Guardian threw a fit.

[matrix123mko]

Correct....but did the alliance start the fire of war?? Nope.
Horde did with azerite farming and burning of teldrassil

Alliance killed goblin miners first. And there was an assassination attempt at Sylvanas.

For both of the above...why should she be there if she is neutral.....because its her home town.

I was asking about Rhonin, who apparently wasn't Theramorian.

Think your timeline is broken.

therarmore happens > kirin tor is still open to horde

Only AFTER bell thing horde is kicked out.

So please explain me how they did. Because yes their leader defended her home town. But after that the horde where still welcome on dalaran....so how is that not neutral? I base things on that happend ingame or from wowpedia etc.....Not my fantasy.

As I said, I was talking about Rhonin defending Theramore.

And we are getting of subject. The main question of this thread is....why are they still open to the whole of the horde. While many of these groups are mostly or originate from alliance races. Or why do contradict/assault the core believes of said factions.
Because lets be real. horde has done a lot of things to nature and the elements that are reasons enough to kick them out of druids and shaman groups.

Horde is the most of Azeroth's shaman population and trolls worshipped wild gods before night elves started existing. And elements don't care about burning woods.

to the undead ( dk) to proof they counter their believes of free undead will.
etc etc etc

They do that only when it is needed. For example, when Jaina has to be put down to win a war.

[yani9841]

Do I have to speak about all the Horde factions that were obliterated? Stormreavers and Sunfury are only the tip of an iceberg.

I don't think the Stormreavers had any ties to the orcish horde beyond they were orcs

The sunfury might fall into this same category. But now compare to a list including defias, twilight cultists, Syndicate, or just about any group of humans that don't agree with the high command.

[Khaza-R]

Come Vanilla through Wrath, the Horde had no history. All of the old Horde heroes were dead or made loot pinatas. They really had no choice but to cooperate with Alliance oriented factions.

Also remember that most of the core Horde races are "bad guys turned good". Especially true for Orcs, Trolls and Undead. The playable characters are just a minority with most of their kind being enemies. In contrast most of the Alliance races are good, with only a minority being the bad guys.

[matrix123mko]

I would argue it goes much further than just factions:

- Blood Elves are, as Ion said, High Elves. One of the oldest core Alliance races of the franchise. They had to not only give the Horde access to one of the core Alliance races of the franchise, no, EXCLUSIVE access to this day.

Lore reason: High elves never cared about humans. Anasterian only used them sometimes to defend himself. Lor'themar and Kael'thas thought that Sylvanas will be a better ally for them, as she was closer and she hated the Scourge.

- Nightborne are Night Elves. Again, exclusive access to the Horde.

Night elves that didn't follow Tyrande and Malfurion and stayed home for 10000 years.

- Druids; the only race that ever had Druids in the lore were Night Elves. Access given to the Horde.

Lore states that trolls were druids before. Look at Vanilla Zul'gurub. They had wild gods, just like night elves.

But I agree. Orcs alone are boring, just like Stormwindians.

- - - Updated - - -

I don't think the Stormreavers had any ties to the orcish horde beyond they were orcs

They were officially Horde until they deserted and Orgrim considered them traitors. Then they died.

The sunfury might fall into this same category.

Kael'thas was the king of Quel'thalas. He was the leader and thus part of the Horde.

But now compare to a list including defias, twilight cultists, Syndicate, or just about any group of humans that don't agree with the high command.

These weren't portrayed as allies for long. Syndicate was Alterac indeed but the rest was enemy form the start.

[Jastall]

First, because as some have said it's easier to write one neutral story than two faction-based ones. Blizzard still does it from time to time when appropriate such as in BFA's launch zones and Nazjatar, but the majority of the time they just won't be assed to double their workload just to give one race a bit more representation.

Second, because the Horde doesn't have very many factions or characters that can feasibly join a neutral storyline without being completely out of character and/or being called traitors by the murderbros both in and out of universe. The few that would work as neutral entities, such as Baine, are propped up as moral paragons inside the Horde instead. Thus, by default the inevitable neutrals will lean towards Alliance aesthetics/themes.

[ravenmoon]

Gee, what a surprise, the arguments in favor of the Horde include accusing other posters of racism. How obsessed do you have to be to use such an insult towards another real person over FICTIONAL characters? I mean, one post even said something like "anti-Horde propaganda" ffs.

The Horde has consistently been written as acting for the greater good only when their asses are on the line too. The minute they're not in danger from World Ender Du Jour, they instantly turn murderous on anyone not in the Horde. Take it up with the writers if you don't like that, because they think that's what Horde fans want. See the Blizzcon cheering and chest thumping. See the loud, vitriolic reactions towards peace. See the widespread Horde fan sentiment of wanting to "crush Alliance skulls" while Alliance fans would like to have an actual story that isn't "Oh the Horde massacred us again! Get the forgiveness parties ready!"

The hord eis the faction the devs have admitted they like and enjoy writing for. The stroyline that involves them is blizzard stroy board writerse trying to do their best by the horde.

They've confessed they find it difficult to write for the alliance, because their heart is in the horde. Turns out this isn't going too well for the horde. I think they're running into rubbish story telling because they care too much.

When they first did the nightborne, none oft his pressure, because they weren't a horde race. Same with the highborne of Azsuna, the story was good and enjoyable, made sense, . The things we were most annoyed at were the omissions (for me , the absence o the Priesthood of ELune in Suramar and the broken shore, especially the Cathedral of Eternal night - (later found out Tyrande did have a huge role that was cut to push more of the Legion and the class halls on the borken isles - which was the wrong decision when they decided they'd go to argus instad of 8.3 and we ended up getting way too much Legion and barely any night elf).

When they didn't care about it, it was fine, even enjoyable. When they care.... a case of try to hard to be clever maybe?

[DemonHunter18]

- Druids; the only race that ever had Druids in the lore were Night Elves. Access given to the Horde.

remember when Malfurion was the first Druid???

ah good old days.

I'm half expecting that Illidan isn't the first Demon Hunter and it was some random troll pre WotA

[yani9841]

They were officially Horde until they deserted and Orgrim considered them traitors. Then they died.

in that case they aren't the horde I'm talking. Orgrim's horde and Thrall's horde aren't the same entity.

Kael'thas was the king of Quel'thalas. He was the leader and thus part of the Horde.

Kael was never in the horde. He departed with Illidan and appointed Lorthemar before the events of TBC even began.

[ravenmoon]

I would argue it goes much further than just factions:

- Blood Elves are, as Ion said, High Elves. One of the oldest core Alliance races of the franchise. They had to not only give the Horde access to one of the core Alliance races of the franchise, no, EXCLUSIVE access to this day.

- Nightborne are Night Elves. Again, exclusive access to the Horde.

- Druids; the only race that ever had Druids in the lore were Night Elves. Access given to the Horde.

The reason:
Up until WoW the Alliance was actually the diverse and politically interesting faction of Warcraft (Elves, Gnomes, Dwarves) while the Horde was just a bunch of racist brutes. Yes, there was some politics going on in the original Horde, but not on par with what the Alliance had.
Also, everything that comes down to "protecting Azeroth" almost always is very Alliance-themed.

Since Blizzard wants the overall narrative of the game (told by dungeons+raids and quests) to almost always be identical for both factions (and there is no realistical alternative to that, either), they HAD TO "alliancify" the Horde.

Result:
The Horde is now more diverse than the Alliance, mostly because of Alliance races (undead Humans are still Humans). Everything interesting they can think of for Alliance races is instead added to the Horde-mirrors, making the Alliance the "PvE background faction" that is just a blob nobody at Blizzard gives a fuck about.

The original Horde theme from WC1+2 is completely gone. The Alliance theme from WC1+2+3 has been given to the Horde.

Both factions are completely fucked up and none of their stories make any sense anymore.

It's worse. Becuse the alliance was so popular, they intentionally didn't write roles and development for the night elves. The developments tehy gave had hardly any depth, most of the background knowledge coming in books

Night elves have more books about htem than any other race.

4 - on the pre-sundering civilizatio, a lot on the arcane side of the highborne and the new society
1 - on Illidan and the demon hunters
1 - Malfurion Stormrage and the Emerald Dream.

But in-game:

• Classic - starting zones

no-development and minimal involvement till

• Cata - every race gets a revamp - minimal in game presentation of the highborne, night elves rubbish and beaten everywhere

no - development and minimal involvement till

• Legion - the only really balanced night elf presentation - Bringing to life the War of the Ancients zones and peoples. You had druids (Val'Sharah), arcane wing of the night elves shown properly in Suramar with the Nightborne and Moonguard, then Azsuna showing highborne country. Demon hunters, Wardens, Huntresses, and the Cathedral of Eternal night.

Very sparse = largely ignored in game. Most of night elf lore is in books. 5 major novels and half of the other material like novellas and