Mega-Thread: Coronavirus Pandemic

[Egomaniac]

no, i'm not... i understand how the agencies and politicians responsible for them in sweden work... they have been doing this shit for years in different areas... we have been naive is something we will hear soon... reinfeldt & co pulled the same shit when the health care started crashing due to their policies... saying that wasn't their intent...

Conspiracy theory without any evidence.

[Themius]

China is to blame for the severity of this outbreak by downplaying it early on. But then again, many other countries have learned nothing from this and are making the very same mistakes. So it's not like you can blame China for everything.

No they aren’t. Not when it comes to America.

We have a pandemic intelligence arm that knew China was lying in January and briefed the president saying it will be bad.

[Skroe]

And yet, you keep replying to me personally and throwing the same line of "Other countries fucked up"...which I am not denying.

Let me explain my thoughts on this matter in the most simplistic way I can.

The fact that other countries fucked up does not absolve China of it's own fuck ups.

conversely

The fact that China fucked up does not absolve other countries of their own fuck ups.

China's fuck-up was the original fuck up. The big one.

First their regulation and enforcement facilitated this happening. For years the WHO and CDC have been watching strains of Coronaviruses and Influenza in animals, in China, be only a few mutations away from jumping to the human race, or becoming virulently infectious. And this time it happened. It doesn't happen other places. It happens in China. It's not the natural environment. It's the artificial environment - both physical and regulatory - that allows these super-viruses to keep appearing there. China's government has created the conditions for this catastrophe.

Secondly, when it became clear how severe this could be, they did what authoritarian regimes always do and viewed it purely as a threat to their grip on power, and not as the public health crisis it is. So they silenced people. They downplayed the threat. In the great tradition of Chinese governance, regional officials lied up the ladder to their superiors at the central government about its severity. The same kind of shit that has facilitated China's BS economic numbers of years (that nobody really believes) facilitated the spreading of a virus. China let this get out of containment and robbed the world of two precious months.

Has the rest of the world made mistakes? Monumental ones, no doubt. But they pale in comparison to the original failure. They aren't close to the same level. The mistakes of the US and Europe are only mistakes in response to something that ALREADY was occurring, that the Chinese government, and the Chinese government alone, could have nipped in the bud. But they didn't because they did not want to look bad.

Just to drive the point home, this very day the Chinese government is promoting the bullshit that is Chinese Traditional Medicine as a "Chinese solution "to Coronavirus. FOr those who don't know, Chinese Tradiitional Medicine is (1) Not authentically Chinese (2) not traditional and (3) not medicine. CTM as we know it was concocted by the Communist Party and promoted by Mao in the 1950s and 1960s as a Chinese alternative to Western Medicine. Nominally, it's based on ancient practices, but really it was an attempt by an authoritarian regime to extend it's totalitarian control and cultural hegemony within China even to medicine.

That is how serious the Chinese government is taking things.

Make no mistake, when this is over there _will_ be a severe reckoning with China that is long over due. It _will_ lose its place as the world's factory floor as countries reassess is place in the global logistics chain not to its benefit and it's ability to influence global events due to its deceptive authoritarian nature _will_ be curtained.

Westerners looked to growth in China when growth slowed down in the Western world. That proved ill advised. Now we're living through the roll back. Better late than never. Maybe we'll return to face what China truly is: a modestly more open North Korea with a lot more people and a bigger bank account. But at it's core, all authoritarian regimes have the same motivation. And this time the world will get sick off it.

[Egomaniac]

nope... i've lived it as has other swedes...

https://www.aftonbladet.se/nyheter/a...arit-for-naiva

sweden has been too naive... when their policies are called out by people...

https://www.sydsvenskan.se/2019-11-1...-misslyckanden

we have been naive...

https://www.svd.se/kinas-intag-i-got...la-varit-naiva

we have been naive...

https://da.se/2019/09/ylva-johansson...kuggsamhallet/

we have been naive...

https://www.tv4.se/nyheterna/artikla...59487aba0000cc

we have been naive...
https://www.bgplay.se/video/sverige-...ar-varit-naiva

we have been naive...

they keep repeating this... over and over... there's endless amounts of it out there where they say it after people don't like their policies and what they have lead to... this will just be another case of it...

Just like any other conspiracy theorist. You make a supposition that you try to back up with an article that clearly does not line up with what you say...and when called on it...you just say "well, the rest of it is just a cover up"

[omeomorfismo]

Dutch government finally decided it's time to get semi-serious. All bars, restaurants, schools and day-cares are now closed until the beginning of April. The largest hit will, of course, be the closure of all of the "coffeeshops". The line leading halfway around the block from the one next door tells me a bunch of people are worried about where their next high will be coming from.

Sex workers are also banned from working during this period, so combine that with the coffeshops closing and there goes the tourism for the month.

I can't make this shit up.

in NL amazon or whatever doesnt sell weed online?

[Egomaniac]

do you think they told people what was going to happen for all these things i linked? no, they didn't... people had to notice it themselves and then complained about it... they're not incapable of knowing what their policies will lead to...

And yet, you still have no evidence other than your feelings....

This is what it comes down to

1 Person, no longer affiliated with the Public Heath Authority, says "they're trying to infect the whole country to build up Herd Immunity"

2 People, Directly involved with the Coronavirus strategy, say "No, we're not. We're trying to slow down the spread of the virus as much as we can" (which, btw, is the strategy that every sane country is working with)

[TrollHunter3000]

They were profiteers, I'm guessing "welp, I shouldn't have done that" doesn't feature strongly in their thinking, but "how can I try to make a buck off of this" probably does.

I don't even know what you just tried to say.

There's nothing to sue them for.

[Egomaniac]

i just linked you several links where they pull the we have been naive shit after people start complaining about their policies... this will be yet another such case in a long line... there's an endless amount of it because that's how politicians and agencies work in sweden... they say they're naive when people complain about the outcome of their policies... with the experts they have access to they have to be able to predict the outcome... they can't claim it's not intended with all those experts and then say they were naive... ordinary laymen could have predicted the outcome of several of those policies without being experts...

- - - Updated - - -



Anders Tegnell still said she is correct and didn't deny it, only said he wants it to be slowly...

Once again:

But is it your strategy that people should be infected and build an immunity to protect the weak?

- No, not basically, but the basis of our strategy is to try to get the infection going as slowly as possible. We do not really know what a herd immunity would look like for this type of disease, so it is very strange to say that this is the strategy when we do not know what the target is. But we know what the goal is to reduce the spread of infection and we know how to achieve it. It's all about staying home when they're sick. It's the ground bolt.

He said she is "Partially correct". You are cherry picking the parts of what he said that you like and ignoring everything that you don't.

And every country wants to slow the virus as much as possible. That's what Social Distancing is for. Stopping the virus completely in its tracks right now is not an option...now the best course is to stagger the infections as much as possible so that the hospitals don't get overrun.

[Voidwielder]

Make no mistake, when this is over there _will_ be a severe reckoning with China that is long over due. It _will_ lose its place as the world's factory floor as countries reassess is place in the global logistics chain not to its benefit and it's ability to influence global events due to its deceptive authoritarian nature _will_ be curtained.

They've been saying this for a decade. All their threats, all their espionage and the rest of it - they are too attractive with their flexible regulations and frankly, corruption.

We've seen how many countries in Europe are openly flirting with their totally-not-a-spynet-5G offers. Some might even take it. The Chinese have billions up their asses they are willing to throw at takers.

[Omega10]

US government tries to swipe exclusive rights for vaccine in development from German biotech company, offering large amounts of money to have it "only for the US"

And its true, confirmed by the german health minister.

3h ago this went the right way (against the US gov and pro Worldhealth)
https://twitter.com/berlindirekt/sta...45508255809536

China sends doctors and ventilators to italy (not "mask and sanitizers" as some posted in this thread) while the US does everything it can to make more pharmacy PROFIT out of this.

Hollywood movies will have a difficult time in the future with good vs evil nations without drifting into 100% propaganda.

Or just make the US the bad guy Our reactions are not making us look good

[nocturnus]

nah the country has very little TP on hand because of the sheer volume it takes in storage. they rely on the supply and manufacturing chain to turn the inventory over in less than a half a week in some area's that are space limited.

If you start to have a breakdown in the production or transportation chain its all going to come to a grinding halt.


the problem is they are hording way too much of it, they forget how much they actually use.


Also on top of that you can throw a stone and find a person buying 20 -24 packs to resell on CL/internet....this didn't help the initial visibility of there being a visible supply issue (when there really wasn't they just could not stock fast enough)

"Nah" what? That people are stupid? They are stupid if in a crisis their mind goes to hoarding. Especially hoarding toilet paper! Fuck toilet paper, or are us Italians the only people that actually clean our asses with water?

[Forogil]

And every country wants to slow the virus as much as possible. That's what Social Distancing is for. Stopping the virus completely in its tracks right now is not an option...now the best course is to stagger the infections as much as possible so that the hospitals don't get overrun.

Almost, but in most countries the need to stagger isn't exactly now, but when the number of infections likely increase in a few weeks.

At least the UK also plans to protect the most at risk during that time, and seems to have that as their plan.

And then herd immunity will work.

However, it might be that the official plan in Sweden is that the current social distancing hopefully works, and the above is just the fall-back strategy when it fails.

The other possibility would be have even stricter social distancing, and keep that up until we have a vaccine (next summer?) or until we have tracked down every infected individual to avoid new outbreaks. Possibly with a break during summer, and then back for 6 months again next winter.

[Easo]

Yes, that was a real concern, but luckily Trump stepped in and stopped that!

The concern wasn't just the general spread in the US, but also that tourists are likely to meet people in the service sector with high risk of working while sick.

Ah yes, he did... not. First, he said it was just a flu, then blamed democrats.
Now you can compare his administration's response in airports (nice, another virus hotspot) or if the news are actually true - attempt to make only USA have access to vaccine at first.

What he did is panic. Understandable, though, he is in the actual risk group and he could die, no matter the care he would receive. xD

[Blur4stuff]

No one outside of the most hardcore Trump supporters are going to believe he or the republicans have done a good job. There's plenty of reasons why, but what makes it even worse is that some republicans and Trump supporters are still spreading disinformation about the virus right now. Make no mistake, Trump, his administration, and his supporters (particularly those in congress) have caused the upcoming deaths of thousands of people that did not have to die.

There's no better proof of this than comparing Italy to South Korea right now.

[Phanius]

Longtime lurker first time poster. 6500 deaths worldwide from this thing. (Googled it)

I don't subscribe to conspiracy theories about this virus. I do say that idiots are overreacting. Google how many are killed by flu/malaria/etc.

Don't accept the line fed by traditional media. Look for yourself

[Gorsameth]

Almost, but in most countries the need to stagger isn't exactly now, but when the number of infections likely increase in a few weeks.

At least the UK also plans to protect the most at risk during that time, and seems to have that as their plan.

And then herd immunity will work.

However, it might be that the official plan in Sweden is that the current social distancing hopefully works, and the above is just the fall-back strategy when it fails.

The other possibility would be have even stricter social distancing, and keep that up until we have a vaccine (next summer?) or until we have tracked down every infected individual to avoid new outbreaks. Possibly with a break during summer, and then back for 6 months again next winter.

Remember there is a 2 week lag period from the incubation time. If you want to have less new cases in 2 weeks you need to take action today. If you only take action shortly before your overwhelmed you are to late, which is what happened in Italy.

[Queen of Hamsters]

*SNIP*

Unrelated, but I just had to thank you for your signature link.
I've wanted such a feature for years, and now I finally, FINALLY, can browse the site without seeing the names (and white banners) of ignored people!

Thank you!

- - - Updated - - -

Ah yes, he did... not. First, he said it was just a flu, then blamed democrats.
Now you can compare his administration's response in airports (nice, another virus hotspot) or if the news are actually true - attempt to make only USA have access to vaccine at first.

What he did is panic. Understandable, though, he is in the actual risk group and he could die, no matter the care he would receive. xD

... Wait... what?

Please tell me that's a rumor...

[PhaelixWW]

Longtime lurker first time poster. 6500 deaths worldwide from this thing. (Googled it)

I don't subscribe to conspiracy theories about this virus. I do say that idiots are overreacting. Google how many are killed by flu/malaria/etc.

Don't accept the line fed by traditional media. Look for yourself

Longtime lurker... with an account made in Mar 2020. Nice try. Peddle your ignorance elsewhere.

[shadowmouse]

There's nothing to sue them for.

Remind me, when and where did you get your law degree? They may not prevail, I may not feel it is a meritorious claim, but neither of those things mean that a decently skillful attorney is going to be unable to make a colorable case to get into court. Into court means probably into the news, and that's enough to open the door to being paid to go away. Into the news also means more publicity, since they have already gotten their faces out there it seems reasonable to guess they might want to continue that.

[The Scourge of Azuremyst]

Longtime lurker... with an account made in Mar 2020. Nice try. Peddle your ignorance elsewhere.

Maybe youre right about him, but has to be noted that one doesnt need an account to be able to read stuff on the forums.