Exactly the response we'd expect from a Bernie Bros - thoughtless, shortsighted, and not understanding the bigger picture. But please, keep on helping Trump's campaign.
- - - Updated - - -
Agreed - this is really much better.
- - - Updated - - -
Agreed - huge on change is the way to move a progressive platform. I hope Pelosi and Senate Majority Leader Warren can do that. I'm sure President Biden will sign whatever comes from their efforts.
Maybe I should watch this, has to be better than the discussion here which is nothing but supporters of both candidates spewing endless variations of "No You!"
/s
I mean I respect what you're saying, but here are the two points of disagreement
(1) This is at time for triage. Reformative therapy, let's call it, comes after we've triage the emergency situation. Your huge change must come after the triage.
(2) You badly overestimatre what you would get with compromise. You're not alone in this. AOC said about a month ago that if they start negotiating for M4A and end at a public option, that'd still be a huge win (in the same sense as major things done". There is not 20 votes in the Senate and 100 in the House for M4A, and there probably isn't 30 or 150 for a public option. The real-world compromise you'd get wouldn't be a public option, but modest Obamacare reform at best.
Really. Progressives badly over estimate the leverage they have. Starting a negotiation at high doesn't at all imply that the settlement point is the middle if you don't have leverage.
You wouldn't get huge change. You'd get little to nothing. Because there is nothing you can do to get 60 votes in the Senate or 223 votes in the House as it stands right now. The House and Senate Democratic delegations, never mind Republicans are not nearly where progressives would need them to be to get any kind of compromise that could be called, in your words "major things done".
This is why progressives should stop trying to federalize the issue and focus on the state level, where they _will_ find far more success. Focus on California and New York and Maryland and Massachusetts and the like. If Idaho is a shit hole, that's the way it goes for now. But at least you don't have Idaho's votes foiling a broader implementation of an agenda.
The correct answer should have been "Yes, and [nuance]" to this dictatorship question, because it's literally what Sanders' stance has been. Bernie's weakness remains that he always jumps to defending the nuance and forgets to put the obvious answer out front.
Yeah, which is one reason all the policy debate stuff really doesn't matter *that* much to me. Things like being able to work with others, experience etc are more important to me. And it's not that policy doesn't matter at all, because the president still can have sway over the agenda, but ultimately as you say, this is why the Sanders group bashing the democratic party and "the establishment" turned me off so severely. We NEED the democratic party to take congress if you want to see any of this happen. Shitting on the democratic party to defend sanders isn't helping your cause, it's hurting your case. That's been my main point.
While you live, shine / Have no grief at all / Life exists only for a short while / And time demands its toll.
GOD BLESS BIDEN MAKING BERNARD SANDERS EAT HIS WORDS ON CUBA/RUSSIA/CHINA.
THANK GOD.
And now Bernard is going to commit suicide on a hill. Here he goes. Going for the Defender-of China/Cuba/Russia dictatorship votes.
Walk into the trap you fucking idiot, lol. Die on this hill. God I love behind right about this maroon.
And Biden is eviscerating Bernard (rightfully) with what he's said and how he said it. I've been hammering this point here for a week and a half and folks thought it was quixotic. And here is the likely Democratic nominee doing it too on national television. I guess it wasn't quixotic.
Biden calling out all the countries in the pacific rim that are afraid of China and saying that words matter just illustrates how poor Bernard's words on the topic are and why Bernard Sanders is a fool to die on this stupid hill.
But die on it he has.
Bernie actually dictatorships arent that bad Sanders XD
Channeling his bros on this one
Bernard Sanders just lied as to why he refused to vote for sanctions on Russia in response to their 2016 attack on America.
Good job Biden for highlighting that. Sanders is soft on authoritarian regimes and always has been.
Biden: "Everyone knows I am a Democrat with a capital D".
Ouch.
Right, but you can't say "we don't have Congress so there's no point wishing for anything." This mostly sounds like an excuse to try to make the progressives be quiet, because of the very fact that the Senate can flip in the same year that we're electing the president, neutering "we have to win it, then start talking about change." Ignoring that "We can't do anything, vote for me just to make sure the other guy doesn't do anything" doesn't get people to the polls.
When Obama was pushing his healthcare message in 2008, he had every reason to think it would never pass. People had been promising healthcare since the beginning of politics and nothing ever happened. But moreover, Republicans had the Senate by a larger majority than they do today. 55 seats. But he won, and the flipped the Senate - even if only by virtue of two Democrat-leaning independents to give them a slim 51 seat majority.