Mega-Thread: Coronavirus Pandemic

[Gaidax]

Best to ignore and move on really, he's just looking for a fight.

Just know that those who refuse to learn from history are doomed to repeat it.

You say that, but currently we all are repeating history and paying for it.

Nobody learned shit and I bet another time this shit hits in a decade from now - you will have same shit all over again. We had several pandemics just this century, let's not even talk about 20th century and how prepared we came out of it? This is a fucking joke.

So just stop pretending some moral superiority already, humanity is a frikkin' animal herd that keeps rushing off the same cliffs all over an over again, while bleating about how they are so good and morally superior.

[Muajin76]

https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/moms...215150193.html

OMG...you guys gotta see this.

A woman bought 18 rolls ONLY to have them damaged in the saddest way. *won't spoil it*

[Skroe]

What could anyone do about it? Send Xi Ping a strongly worded letter?

Iran style sanctions where countries and companies can trade with China or trade with the US, but not both, and Cold War style military encirclement.

Also making it illegal for US dollars to be transferred and exchange for Chinese goods under penalty of asset seizure.

Starve the beast.

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Capitalism is too greedy to properly punish china like they deserve...

US companies have been deleveraging from China for the past few years.

This will accelerate the process globally. And not just other countries to China, but other countries to each other. This is the end of this round of globalization. A world where countries can't get masks because they are made in China, or active ingredients because they are made in India, is a world with too many points of failure, created in the name of efficiency.

The next economy will be far less efficient, but built for durability.

[Gaidax]

Iran style sanctions where countries and companies can trade with China or trade with the US, but not both, and Cold War style military encirclement.

Also making it illegal for US dollars to be transferred and exchange for Chinese goods under penalty of asset seizure.

Starve the beast.

You know better than the rest that this all is a pipe dream.

This shit should have been done 2 decades ago, when it could be effective. Now? They will just buy out all your corrupt lawmakers and coerce everyone to follow the suite.

At the very best, the whole thing will take decades to actually take hold, simply because people could not see further than their noses past decade at what is going on.

[Skroe]

First deal with Trump. Promises that Trump will go down and will be held accountable are now nothing but memes at this point. Just like the rest of nonsense you post. Empty words.

We can walk and chew bubblegum. The US has been successfully spiraling up it's China-containment measures for some years, and they've proven quite effective.

And as for Trump, he has been held to account. He's suffered a historic defeat in the 2018 election and then a historic impeachement in 2019. He's signed 3 budgets he's had practically no role in crafting. And he looks primed to go down hard in November.

And if he does or doesn't is immaterial, because we can and will do both.

[Abordage]

I'm just sick and tired of all this noise about coronaviruse. Wake me up when it ends.

[Skroe]

You know better than the rest that this all is a pipe dream.

This shit should have been done 2 decades ago, when it could be effective. Now? They will just buy out all your corrupt lawmakers and coerce everyone to follow the suite.

At the very best, the whole thing will take decades to actually take hold, simply because people could not see further than their noses past decade at what is going on.

I don't think you quite appreciate how much of a consensus item anti-China policy has become in the US. It's perhaps the most bipartisan thing there is. It's really turned a corner. This country's political class and economic leaders are girded for a big ass fight with it. They have been for some time. This is the excuse they need. The China Trade war will morph into Soviet-style containment very organically by tha tprocess.

Unspooling will take a decade, but the transfer of wealth, technology, manufacturing and supplies to China, already sharply limited in just the past 5 years, will be entirely reversed.

[tikcol]

Sorry no it doesn't pale in magnitude, look up an actual time line of what the rest did even when that doctor came out to warn us of what was happening in China.
You'll be looking long and hard, since it is not much.

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Not a matter of being capable to do so, a matter of the consequences involved if it is true. Solidarity and trust will be needed to recover from this if your nation is going full ahead to squander that currency you'll be really left to your own in isolation.

Do you mean this doctor? https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/06/w...ronavirus.html

Which was silenced back in february and eventually died to the infection?

Is it actually not relevant at all the almost 3 months it took them to report it officially ?

https://www.vox.com/2020/2/10/211248...h-organization

I can't believe how gullible you are.

[Yunru]

https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/moms...215150193.html

OMG...you guys gotta see this.

A woman bought 18 rolls ONLY to have them damaged in the saddest way. *won't spoil it*

Are they making a toilet paper alcohol?

[Mayhem]

The incompetence of our governments does not mitigate the epic scope of their criminal behavior in this. They are two separate issues. China had a humanitarian duty to raise the alarm, and instead they did what authoritarian regimes ALWAYS do, which is first view bad news through the prism of what it means to the regime's fortunes.

This has got to be the most stupid shit any American ever wrote. Your democratic capitalist-driven country does the exact same thing every day yet here you are talking about Chinas humanitarian duty, that's really fucking funny.

[Muajin76]

Are they making a toilet paper alcohol?

haha not saying anything. Just watch it. It's pretty funny and sad. :P

[Skroe]

This has got to be the most stupid shit any American ever wrote. Your democratic capitalist-driven country does the exact same thing every day yet here you are talking about Chinas humanitarian duty, that's really fucking funny.

When was the last time a virus got started in our neck of the woods that spread rapidly throughout the world invisibility, that threatened to kill your loved ones via carriers who didn't even know they were sick?

My democratic capitalist-driven country in fact, has never been in this position.

The US is no saint. But this? We've never done anything remotely as consequentially negative as this. More people will be impacted negatively in their lives for years or decades to come by China's cover-up in the past five months than anything we've ever done. Most of the world's population. Billions upon billions of people. Countless millions of jobs and businesses. Trillions of dollars. The war on terror, the Iraq War... you name it. Nothing we have done and fucked up even comes close to this.

This is probably the biggest single catastrophe to befall the human race since the Second World War. That's the scale of it. And it could have been nipped in the bud had China acted early.

Don't believe me? Here's Nature.
https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-00741-x

Epidemiologists say China’s mammoth response had one glaring flaw: it started too late. In the initial weeks of the outbreak in December and January, Wuhan authorities were slow to report cases of the mysterious infection, which delayed measures to contain it, says Howard Markel, a public-health researcher at the University of Michigan in Ann Arbor. “The delay of China to act is probably responsible for this world event,” says Markel.

A model simulation1 by Lai Shengjie and Andrew Tatem, emerging-disease researchers at the University of Southampton, UK, shows that if China had implemented its control measures a week earlier, it could have prevented 67% of all cases there. Implementing the measures 3 weeks earlier, from the beginning of January, would have cut the number of infections to 5% of the total.

This could have been a near miss. A warning shot. We are here, because China covered it up.

[Acidbaron]

The incompetence of our governments does not mitigate the epic scope of their criminal behavior in this. They are two separate issues. China had a humanitarian duty to raise the alarm, and instead they did what authoritarian regimes ALWAYS do, which is first view bad news through the prism of what it means to the regime's fortunes.

And moreover China has been warned about how their Wet markets have been breeding grounds for this sort of stuff for years. And they have done nothing. They play their games about Western Imperialism. Even do this day, they are emphasizing "Traditional Chinese Medicine" as a Chinese way to mitigate the symptoms of the Wuhan Virus. TCM as we know it is more Chinese communist party bullshit. It was created in its current form by Mao and the Communist Party in the 1950s as a domestic alternative to Western-style medicine. It was a Socialist-Cultural supremacy thing. And these Wet markets exist principally because of TCM.

The very thing they are promoting on an ongoing basis - a circumstance that they themselves created - is the source of the ailment. Do you see the irony?

Between the decade of global hack attacks, the illegal island building, the theft of IP, enough with this goddamn communist government. Americans and Europeans are dying now because of the games they play. And them propagandizing that the US Army brought it to Wuhan? More games.

So the jig is up. I've been saying on these forums for two years that the New Cold War is here. Well, the past bit has been the opening trailers and now we're all living the thunderclap at the start of Act I.

By the end of this the world will be cleaved into two spheres: the US sphere and the Chinese sphere. And globalization as we know it, including freedom of travel and global tech, is never coming

I believe these markets exist due to also lack of food to feed the growing population, considering the poverty in China.

Well i do not hope you are right, nobody is hoping for another war. You do hear more voices about now about becoming less dependent from China for goods, not out of spite but out of economic reasons. Since it appears they are a rather weak chain in the link.

[Gaidax]

Everyone and their mothers will be bleating nice and smart things, but I bet 10 years from now we will be sitting in the same shit puddle like now.

[Deja Thoris]

Everyone and their mothers will be bleating nice and smart things, but I bet 10 years from now we will be sitting in the same shit puddle like now.

With people like you around yes, your reponses don't evolve.

[Gaidax]

With people like you around yes, your reponses don't evolve.

People like me tell retards to wake the fuck up, not go spread useless crap like "solidarity and trust" between nations that fails the moment shit hits the fan.

Your countries need to be prepared to handle this shit and on the ball, instead of hoping to wing it and rely on aid, like apparently much of European counties hoped for.

Every country needs to be quick on its feet and act, instead of waiting until you have fucking people dying on the streets like in Italy - a monumental failure.

Heck, it's not even Italy only, Spain, UK - all those are now running around like headless chicken playing a game of catch up.


And yes, that includes even shit like spy agencies smuggling in bloody test kits and medical equipment, if it comes to this. Italy would wish they could do that shit - tell about your shitty "solidarity and trust" to 500 new dead people yesterday. Their neighboring counties prevented medical equipment exports that could have saved some of them, because "solidarity and trust" means fuck everyone else and save yourselves. So why fucking pretend?

[Skroe]

I believe these markets exist due to also lack of food to feed the growing population, considering the poverty in China.

Well i do not hope you are right, nobody is hoping for another war. You do hear more voices about now about becoming less dependent from China for goods, not out of spite but out of economic reasons. Since it appears they are a rather weak chain in the link.

Well people haven't wanted another war because it's inconvenient to them. ANd people didn't want to take the Wuhan virus seriously because it was convenient to them.

Aren't well all pretty much done living in a reality where you or I or people actually live in a world where anyone has control? The spread of the Wuhan virus happened organically. The Chinese government did what it always does with bad news. Countries in the west do what they always do with disruptive news. No one planned for this. No one wanted it to happen. It happened because of the distinct natures of the countries and people involved. Chinese communist secrecy and control of information. Western contemporary governmental incompetence and inaction and public lassitude.

Similarly the things that have sent the US and CHina spirally, inexorably towards conflict are organic. China is doing what the US did 100 years ago. It thinks it's economic power entitled it to a leading seat at the table. The US is doing what defending champion powers always do, which is gearing up for a confrontation to maintain its dominance. The clashes have been escalating at every level for a decade. No one person is making the decision. There have been changes in leadership in both countries. The conflict is in a sense, an emergent property between two diametrically opposed geopolitical powerhouses. This is the Thucydides Trap.

You know, looking at the inter-war period between WWI and World War II, we tend to think that Hitler and the rise of the Nazi Party was an obvious and inevitable consequence of how World War I ended and the global depression at the end of the 1920s. But for the people living then, it wasn't obvious. 1925 became 1926 became 1927. 1932 became 1933 became 1934. Maybe the Nazis would blow over. Maybe Imperial japan would change course. Everyone living then lived their lives without appreciation of the catastrophe ahead of them. Nobody wanted another destructive conflict in Europe (well except the Nazis). But the day came when all the forces that would lead to it converged, and the War started.

I don't think we're in 1938 or anything, but the writing is on the wall about the post-Cold War geopolitical era many of us have grown up in - a world where you can fly to Russia easily or buy a Chinese phone easily or talk to a friend on the internet in India easily, or drive from Germany to Italy easily. This is probably the end of that as we know it. I won't even say the beginning of the end, because the beginning was the 2007/2008 Recession and then the subsequent rise of populism in the rest, followed by Brexit, and in China the rise of nationalist Xi Jinping, the most powerful leader since Mao.

It's going to be damned inconvienent for a lot of people. But the organic forces of the world have long since created a situation where it simply wasn't big enough for both the US-led liberal international order and the Chinese Alternative, and the Wuhan Virus is likely the point where the conflict takes a far sharper turn.

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People like me tell retards to wake the fuck up, not go spread useless crap like "solidarity and trust" between nations that fails the moment shit hits the fan.

Your countries need to be prepared to handle this shit and on the ball, instead of hoping to wing it and rely on aid, like apparently much of European counties hoped for.

Every country needs to be quick on its feet and act, instead of waiting until you have fucking people dying on the streets like in Italy - a monumental failure.

Heck, it's not even Italy only, Spain, UK - all those are now running around like headless chicken playing a game of catch up.


And yes, that includes even shit like spy agencies smuggling in bloody test kits and medical equipment, if it comes to this. Italy would wish they could do that shit - tell about your shitty "solidarity and trust" to 500 new dead people yesterday. Their neighboring counties prevented medical equipment exports that could have saved some of them, because "solidarity and trust" means fuck everyone else and save yourselves. So why fucking pretend?

I mean, no offense but that's pretty rich coming from an Israeli.

When do you folks plan to stop your illegal settlement building in the West Bank, and demolish all the ones there? Because my country, the United States, has taken far, far too many bullets in the international community (namely the UN) for your people - another country mind you - to be building homes there. Why should we take the heat for something you people do that for decades we have expressly told you not to do. Why shouldn't we just let you bare the consequences of it yourselves?

Israel, by building those illegal settlements, shows it takes the support of my country for granted. Support that if it didn't have, it would find its geopolitical position, its access to technology and markets and security, all substantially reduced. Simply put, a country with a population of 8.7 million people in the corner of the Mediterranean Sea and a GDP of just $350 billion, isn't going to be a power player all by itself.

Israel building illegal settlements and then expecting we shield them from the consequences is the very definition of "winging it and relying on aid".

Make no mistake: Israel is a valued ally, but this is a dramatically unequal relationship between the most powerful country in the world and a de facto client state. And my country taking lumps for your country over something that is emphatically illegal and we're in decades-long disagreement over is pretty fucking old.

[Mayhem]

When was the last time a virus got started in our neck of the woods that spread rapidly throughout the world invisibility, that threatened to kill your loved ones via carriers who didn't even know they were sick?

Oh right, it's of course just that one thing that kills people. Take a look at your country, take a look at who dies and to what, the shit you're exporting and then come back to tell us that China has a humanitarian duty.

The hypocrisy is just staggering.

You want something comparable? Easy, how did the US respond to HIV back in the days and in the majority of states even to this day? I have no doubt if something like this would break out in the US the response would be similar if not worse. How do I come to that conclusion? Well the way you treated and treat your own people, can't afford treatment? Well too bad for you, go die in a ditch.

[ParanoiD84]

Like 99% of people dead in Italy had other diseases before so your pretty fucking safe if your in good shape and the majority of those where elderly people.

[Mayhem]

People like me tell retards to wake the fuck up, not go spread useless crap like "solidarity and trust" between nations that fails the moment shit hits the fan.

Your countries need to be prepared to handle this shit and on the ball, instead of hoping to wing it and rely on aid, like apparently much of European counties hoped for.

Every country needs to be quick on its feet and act, instead of waiting until you have fucking people dying on the streets like in Italy - a monumental failure.

Heck, it's not even Italy only, Spain, UK - all those are now running around like headless chicken playing a game of catch up.


And yes, that includes even shit like spy agencies smuggling in bloody test kits and medical equipment, if it comes to this. Italy would wish they could do that shit - tell about your shitty "solidarity and trust" to 500 new dead people yesterday. Their neighboring counties prevented medical equipment exports that could have saved some of them, because "solidarity and trust" means fuck everyone else and save yourselves. So why fucking pretend?

God fucking damn it, the reason for the lack of solidarity are the same people that say every country needs to prepare for it on its own, just look at the lack of solidarity in the EU.

Our own government that is now praised for its handling (mostly by nationalists from other countries) are the reason why we weren't prepared better because they not only ripped a huge hole in our healthcare system and got rid of the emergency response agency that would handle situations like these but also treated the personnel working in the healthcare system and treatment of elderly almost like criminals but at least like unwanted vermin.