Yeah i would have constant issues with the game too if i pugged.

[Kehego]

well, last boss in freehold is the easiest dungeon boss in this expac

he hits for fuck all, and all you have to do is dodge the fire

most 5man bosses' mechanics don't target tanks.

[Adam Jensen]

I would rather play the worst pug ever than trying to find a premade group in World of Warcraft. Or a raiding guild.

There is nothing more toxic to me than raiding guilds.

Then get a new raiding guild.

I'm in one right now and they're fantastic. Sure, some guilds are further progressed raid wide, but who cares? I don't give a damn about being the first to kill N'zoth on Mythic or whatever. We're on Carapace right now and I don't care if that means I'm behind or ahead. Probably would have downed him last night if we had time for one more pull. Point is, they're a fun group of people to be around and that's what counts more than raid progression.

If the guild is toxic, find a new one.

[CrawlFromThePit]

Since i know how mmo-champion works, no, i am not trying to be an asshole or show off, more of a rant.

Its timewalking week, they fixed essence catchup, so why not level up that alt i left at 110 last year right? It takes a few hours for easy 2 Rank 3 essences + cloak, so why not play that Shaman afterall now.

Which i leveled through quests because i couldnt be bothered with dungeons, i leveled every other char that way, just wanted to slow poke it at BoD burn out so a good 2 years without actually pugging anything.

Big god damn mistake.

Of course you people dont like the game if thats the level you are playing at actively.

For every 1 "Decent" tank not even remotely good, just a tank that presses their mitigation button, there are 9 clueless, i dont even know what to describe them as, cause they aint tanks.

For every 1 "decent dps", there are 49 "WHY ARE YOU EVEN ONLINE" "Do you have a keyboard?"

This last few hours, did not classify as "Playing World of Warcraft", if i didnt know better and i returned to this mess , i would unsub instantly again, i would simply alt+f4 after the first dungeon and not return.

Seriously, the game you are playing at the daily pug world, is not how World of Warcraft is meant to be played, for the love of god, get a guild, learn basic interrupts and more importantly, WASD.

What, you don't like people back pedaling in an extra group and in their stupor have a panic attack that makes them disengage into yet ANOTHER group?

I will always remember the sweet run I did where I was in whispers with a DK the entire time explaining him how to open the spellbook to find Scourge strike and how to use it. Needless to say his dps quadrupled in that run.

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People will play to the level required to beat the content (or quit out of frustration). The bar for most PUG stuff is very, very low. Same for soloing. So they never have to learn their class to get that far.

That's why I hate the removal of challenging basic content and why I hate even more the people who love not having to put any effort in the game. This mentality that Blizzard started reduced the overall quality of the game by unconsciously making the average player skill much lower than it was at some point.

[Kehego]

What, you don't like people back pedaling in an extra group and in their stupor have a panic attack that makes them disengage into yet ANOTHER group?

I will always remember the sweet run I did where I was in whispers with a DK the entire time explaining him how to open the spellbook to find Scourge strike and how to use it. Needless to say his dps quadrupled in that run.

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That's why I hate the removal of challenging basic content and why I hate even more the people who love not having to put any effort in the game. This mentality that Blizzard started reduced the overall quality of the game by unconsciously making the average player skill much lower than it was at some point.

Remember the whole ghostcrawler thing where the devs basically admitted that people don't do challenging stuff.

Looking back at it, I know a couple people that did 0 heroic dungeons until the badge vendor became un-ignorable in TBC. Then they did kara and never went to heroic dungeons because it was easy and provided way more badges/hour.

[Gonfer]

Point is, they're a fun group of people to be around and that's what counts more than raid progression.

That sounds like a good group you found. Yet, my experience is that groups like these disband often, as some of the players in such groups want to progress faster.

[Yhcti]

Pugged my +15 as healing, was oom every pull. Did it again as a guild group, barely had to heal.

[Drusin]

It's simple and easy to shit on others instead of look for the things you have in common and give each other a hand with what's missing/happening. You can't help players that don't want help, best just ignore them and leave them on their own. They'll pick up on what they're doing wrong sooner or later, don't let their attitudes become infectious.
Efficiency at the cost of relation is missing the important thing you didn't know you wanted.

I'm afraid to offer advice to players lol You could get the "I KNOW STFU TURBONERD IT'S A NORMAL DUNGEON!" guy and I just don't want to hear that. So I let the Assassination rogue run around without poisons on his weapons, I let the BM hunter pet taunt mobs until it dies and he doesn't notice, I just let people be the shit they want to be ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Super Kami Dende]

Pugging has literally been the core of WoW since Vanilla.

Unless you went with 5/5 Guild Members to every dungeon run you ever did, any time you were looking for more party members in Trade you were pugging. LFG/LFR just made it easier to find those other People for the content.

[Exkrementor]

I would rather play the worst pug ever than trying to find a premade group in World of Warcraft. Or a raiding guild.

There is nothing more toxic to me than raiding guilds.

Talking like someone who has never been in a raiding guild.

[Marweinicus1]

People who are defending pugs over guilds have never been in a decent guild.

[Kehego]

People who are defending pugs over guilds have never been in a decent guild.

imagine having an mmo-champ doom and gloom player in your guild.

[Adam Jensen]

That sounds like a good group you found. Yet, my experience is that groups like these disband often, as some of the players in such groups want to progress faster.

They've lasted a year so far.

[Hoofey]

That sounds like a good group you found. Yet, my experience is that groups like these disband often, as some of the players in such groups want to progress faster.

You're very eager to apply your experience with guilds to everyone who is raiding in one.

There are plenty of good guilds out there, not everyone is a toxic cesspool of elitists you know. Hell, even the guild I am in and have been with for 10+ years, a guild with roots from vanilla, with its 2 day raiding team at 10\12M is nowhere close to your desciption of a typical guild. We got a bunch of socials with varied skillsets who we all play with in m+, visions etc, and we have no issues with that stuff at all. The raid team does have some very strict requirements though, and thats made clear from the getgo, but that doesnt mean we wont do normal\heroics with the socials.
Hell, I'd say the social runs are the most fun and relaxed ones.

As long as you're not an asshole, people wont mind playing with you. But you know, if you're out there calling everyone who raids toxic and assholes, then maybe they just dont see you as a nice person to play with.

[Neuroticaine]

I do not pug and I still have some pretty major issues with the fundamental design of the gameplay loop. I shouldn't have to spend HOURS outside of raid doing absolute shit content to be competitive in raids

[Kehego]

I do not pug and I still have some pretty major issues with the fundamental design of the gameplay loop. I shouldn't have to spend HOURS outside of raid doing absolute shit content to be competitive in raids

shouldve played wod then

[Varitok]

I will never understand why someone would rather do pugs all the time over getting a raiding guild.

Flexibility, lack of having to commit to that weekly schedule. No drama outside of a raid or two since you're likely to avoid the long term guild freakouts.

[Stickinator]

You find a guild that does what you want. Dont say all guilds are shit just cause you joined a random one and they invite whoever = thats just a cesspool of toxic behaviour waiting to happen.

There are guilds out there that are big and do things whenever, they actively make plans so people can join when they have a chance..but people do work, different time zones etc so it needs to be scheduled so people know when stuff happens and they can plan their own time if they want to join or not.

I try pugging sometimes but it doesnt work, either you have people that dont know what they are doing but acting like they do cause they heard it from someone.
Or you get people that steams rolls everything, which can be fun sometimes cause it just feels so out of place.
Very rarely you get people with similar lvl of gear/experience so you will have a good time.

[kamuimac]

Since i know how mmo-champion works, no, i am not trying to be an asshole or show off, more of a rant.

Its timewalking week, they fixed essence catchup, so why not level up that alt i left at 110 last year right? It takes a few hours for easy 2 Rank 3 essences + cloak, so why not play that Shaman afterall now.

Which i leveled through quests because i couldnt be bothered with dungeons, i leveled every other char that way, just wanted to slow poke it at BoD burn out so a good 2 years without actually pugging anything.

Big god damn mistake.

Of course you people dont like the game if thats the level you are playing at actively.

For every 1 "Decent" tank not even remotely good, just a tank that presses their mitigation button, there are 9 clueless, i dont even know what to describe them as, cause they aint tanks.

For every 1 "decent dps", there are 49 "WHY ARE YOU EVEN ONLINE" "Do you have a keyboard?"

This last few hours, did not classify as "Playing World of Warcraft", if i didnt know better and i returned to this mess , i would unsub instantly again, i would simply alt+f4 after the first dungeon and not return.

Seriously, the game you are playing at the daily pug world, is not how World of Warcraft is meant to be played, for the love of god, get a guild, learn basic interrupts and more importantly, WASD.

and the reason why it is so is because WoW became incedibly overtuned over the years.

this happens when company caters to junkies playing 1 game for nearly 20 years instead "average computer games player"

untill blizzard realises that is makes hard statement untill wow will keep failing.

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I will never understand why someone would rather do pugs all the time over getting a raiding guild.

because normaly functioning adoult cannot sacrifice 2-3 evenings a week for computer game and playing a schedule.

ye ye ye i know - everyone here on mmochamp has super succesfull lives while raiding mythic / ,mythic + - same like everyone on internet has 12 inch c..ck and drives sports car and dates supermodels

but reality is - 99,9 dont. and use wow as escape from real life - because they lives suck .

[Kehego]

and the reason why it is so is because WoW became incedibly overtuned over the years.

this happens when company caters to junkies playing 1 game for nearly 20 years instead "average computer games player"

untill blizzard realises that is makes hard statement untill wow will keep failing.

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because normaly functioning adoult cannot sacrifice 2-3 evenings a week for computer game and playing a schedule.

ye ye ye i know - everyone here on mmochamp has super succesfull lives while raiding mythic / ,mythic + - same like everyone on internet has 12 inch c..ck and drives sports car and dates supermodels

but reality is - 99,9 dont. and use wow as escape from real life - because they lives suck .

baseline wow is stupid easy, AND super accessible, what the fuck are you even talking about?

[Ifeanychukwu]

Personally, I don't enjoy having to schedule play times. I'd rather have the freedom to do whatever I want, whenever the mood strikes me. No guild that I know of on my realm would put up with that.

Say what? There's nothing wrong with raiders, there's people that raid and are assholes then there's people that raid and are totally cool. The same is true for the pug world, only that you'll run into assholes much more commonly. I'm in a guild that has seven raid teams. They range from mythic raiding groups to casual normal clears on the weekends that are open to anyone who wants to join. You just have to find the guild that is right for you. You're really missing out by playing the game the way that you are.