Stimulus Checks...how ya gonna spend it?

[Sunseeker]

That is communism.

For...clarification, not that it matters.

Communism is in the name, communal, community. A business that is "worker owned" is communist. Though in a Marxist vision, it first has to be taken over by the "dictatorship of the proletariat", a community-oriented dictatorship that will take from the "owners" and give it over to the community, the people. Communisim has some regional variations on this, but it's largely the same thing. Proletariat rebels against the bourgeoisie, seizes the means of production and control of the government, uses the government to repurpose the means of production to producing for the people and not for profit.

Socialism has variations, America has practiced "soft socialism" for a long time. Roads, military, Amtrak, licensing, public education, and others. Total ownership of certain industries because their benefit to the nation is too profound to let them be operated privately and for profit. There are many areas where public services mimic businesses (why do schools need boards of administrators? Why do hospitals needs boards of trustees?) Other industries the government subsidizes and and heavily regulates because their proper operation is too important to the national good to do otherwise, but they are not so incredibly important that they can't also be privately run.

Most European countries practice a stronger form of socialism, actively requiring labor leaders and government officials to be on the boards of companies and requiring some portion of the business to be owned by the workers and/or the government.

And yes it goes all the way to hard socialism, which is a hair shy of communism, except that businesses can be privately owned, but are effectively under the complete control of the government. If they want you to bake blue cakes instead of red cakes you do that now, or you're not allowed to own a shop anymore. People can still earn profit, do jobs, but these things are all very heavily regulated.

----

Subsidies are capitalists bullshitting you into thinking socialism isn't socialism. We're taking money from XYZ and giving it to ABC. That's socialism. The primary purpose of socialism is to redistribute from the haves to the have nots, money, power, control, influence, all of that. Subsidies as America does them are 99.9% of the time, the reverse, taking from the have nots (the average taxpayer) and giving to the whiny haves (wealthy landowners) because they've abused the capitalist model to such a degree that they can't even capitalist anymore. The end result is usually massive government bailouts followed by bankruptcies where the guy who just got all that taxpayer money runs off to the Bahamas for the rest of their life. Because the government thinks it can buy compliance and is absolutely terrified of executing its rightful power to tell people to get all their shit together and run their business properly.

Capitalism isn't a problem, people are just dicks.

[Adam Jensen]

At the rate we're going . . . build myself a goddamn bunker.

[Kasierith]

That is communism.

Communism is socialism. Albeit an extreme and specific expression of it.

[Fahrenheit]

Just put it in the bank/401k or whatever. But I guess In a way it’ll pay for my Xbox and PS5 come October/November.

[Kasierith]

No, it definitely is not.

Communism acknowledges and even encourages abrupt revolution as a means to overthrow the existing status quo, it also does not acknowledge the concept of private property.

Socialism seeks change through political change and reform, and also allows or even encourages private property.

Your romanticization of socialism doesn't really beat out even the most cursory of textbook definitions. Socialism can take many, many forms, from mixed economies put into place by republican representatives to pure democratic control of socially owned economies. Communism is one of many political expressions of socialist theory.

[Sunseeker]

Your romanticization of socialism doesn't really beat out even the most cursory of textbook definitions. Socialism can take many, many forms, from mixed economies put into place by republican representatives to pure democratic control of socially owned economies. Communism is one of many political expressions of socialist theory.

No. You're wrong. And if you've got textbooks that say "socialism is a version of communism", your textbooks are also wrong.

SO SAYITH THE POLITICAL SCIENTIST!

Also, nb4 u ask: No, I'm not going to explain to you why you're wrong. You aren't entitled to it. You haven't earned it. No I have nothing to prove to you. And you'll probably disregard my well-written and well-supported argument anyway.

[xanzul]

As many of you guys may know already, the US is going to be sending out stimulus checks here very soon. Bush Jr did this. Obama did this. Now the Trump administration is probably going to do this (although this was something that Democrats in both the House and Senate have drafted not actually Trump but more on that later). So my question to you guys is what do you plan on using your money on? My boyfriend and I aren't sure if we're getting one each or just one between us & my grandma (we use her house as our mailing address and have for years now for various things). I'm hoping he & I both get one. I think it'll go to pay off more of our car or maybe for him to get a new PC and the rest in the bank kind of thing.

For those who aren't aware, this is the 411 on the stimulus checks:

I'm using it and the $300 bonus Walmart is giving employees to pay rent for 2 months so i can stay the fuck home away from ignorant customers who can't comprehend the concept of social distancing. Walmarts are closed 8:30pm-7am now and at 7am no less than 50-75 customers come stampeding through the store and constantly clump up together in large groups around me and other associates completely oblivious to the fact they are not only risking their own lives but the lives of those around them. Since Walmart sells groceries we are considered "essential workers" and don't get to have paid leave to stay home away from this insanity and most orders involving shelter in place or other types of quarantines/isolation don't apply to us. Without this stimulus check I am literally having to choose between exposing myself to covid19 (i have health issues that make me high risk of dying or at minimum likely unable to work for an extended period of time) and literally being able to pay rent and buy food.

I also plan on buying a Switch and getting the new Animal Crossing game.

[kail]

Communism is socialism. Albeit an extreme and specific expression of it.

It depends on how broad you want to define socialism.

[Kasierith]

No. You're wrong. And if you've got textbooks that say "socialism is a version of communism", your textbooks are also wrong.

SO SAYITH THE POLITICAL SCIENTIST!

Also, nb4 u ask: No, I'm not going to explain to you why you're wrong. You aren't entitled to it. You haven't earned it. No I have nothing to prove to you. And you'll probably disregard my well-written and well-supported argument anyway.

First, I never said that socialism is a version of communism. I'm not exactly sure why your reading chose to stutter so heavily there, possibly because you've spent so long fighting over the same points.... but I said that communism is an expression of socialism. You got the subset backwards. Socialism as a broader field is the shared ownership of enterprises and labor. It is a broad range. And while Communism is a distinct political theory that is very specific in implementation, class dynamic, the role of government... the economic aspect, in terms of how labor is organized, is that enterprises are socially owned.

Second, when you come in screaming no, you aren't actually convincing anyone. If you want to form a cohesive argument for how communist theory does not use socialism as a base for its economic aspects, feel free. The "BUT MUH DEGREE" argument isn't nearly as compelling as you think.

Third, I'm not sure why you have hated me so much over the years. Especially since a lot of our political views tend to line up more than not. I mean, I'm gone for nearly a full year, and you come back guns blazing like I'm an under 100 post troll account. Honestly, what gives?

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It depends on how broad you want to define socialism.

As an economic theory with many, many political theories that implement it as an economic principle for directing labor. Such as, in this case, nationalizing vital utilities that have demonstrated a failure to be sustainable as a for profit system due to having to be bailed out again and again and again.

[Sunseeker]

First, I never said that socialism is a version of communism. I'm not exactly sure why your reading chose to stutter so heavily there, possibly because you've spent so long fighting over the same points.... but I said that communism is an expression of socialism.

Gonna go full bore here for that sweet sweet temp ban because I hate this forum right now but, just fuck right off with this "version of"/"expression of" bullshit. Go fuck yourself and your bullshit gaslighting. You know what you goddamn said. You know what you goddamn meant.

You got the subset backwards. Socialism as a broader field is the shared ownership of enterprises and labor. It is a broad range. And while Communism is a distinct political theory that is very specific in implementation, class dynamic, the role of government... the economic aspect, in terms of how labor is organized, is that enterprises are socially owned.

You can use as many pretty words as you like to lie. But you're still bullshiting. You're wrong, and that's not my fucking problem.

Second, when you come in screaming no, you aren't actually convincing anyone.

I'm not here to convince you or prove anything to anyone. You and everyone who bullshits like you can get fucked to death by a satans rusty pecker for all I give a shit.

If you want to form a cohesive argument for how communist theory does not use socialism as a base for its economic aspects, feel free. The "BUT MUH DEGREE" argument isn't nearly as compelling as you think.

Again, you falsely assume I give two flying fucks what you think of me.

Third, I'm not sure why you have hated me so much over the years. Especially since a lot of our political views tend to line up more than not. I mean, I'm gone for nearly a full year, and you come back guns blazing like I'm an under 100 post troll account. Honestly, what gives?

Because you're a lying piece of shit.

+1 Honesty.
[Infraction]

[Kasierith]

It is so absurdly wrong to call communism a type of socialism, in every sense of political science.

It even is contradicted in the fact that socialism as a concept was born as a consequence of the failed practical applications of communism.

There is nothing romanticized about it, those are the two biggest differences between communisn and socialism and why they definitely aren't one and the same or a type of one another. It's like claiming that libertarianism is a form of liberalism... Dead wrong.

Socialism as a formal concept was born in the 1800s, when the age of absolute monarchism died out, Napolean shifted the lands, political theories that had been little more than philosophy in the backdrop of absolute monarchism started to go into actual practice, and people were struggling to find a new way forward. It is commonly held that the very brief governance between the control of the Czars and the seizure of power by Stalin and elimination of his rivals to establish his Communist government was a more true form of socialism.. but the idea absolutely preceded it.

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Gonna go full bore here for that sweet sweet temp ban because I hate this forum right now but, just fuck right off with this "version of"/"expression of" bullshit. Go fuck yourself and your bullshit gaslighting. You know what you goddamn said. You know what you goddamn meant.


You can use as many pretty words as you like to lie. But you're still bullshiting. You're wrong, and that's not my fucking problem.


I'm not here to convince you or prove anything to anyone. You and everyone who bullshits like you can get fucked to death by a satans rusty pecker for all I give a shit.


Again, you falsely assume I give two flying fucks what you think of me.


Because you're a lying piece of shit.

+1 Honesty.

Dude.. I have never said that communism=socialism. I've been arguing in favor of mixed markets for years. I've made no secrets at all how much I despise libertarian and laissez-faire ideologies as breeding grounds for corruption on par with the communists systems we've seen in action.

The simple fact is that only one of us is actually approaching this with even a modicum of sense. You aren't even making an argument. You are, at this point, doing nothing more than shitposting.

As for me lying? I will readily admit that I can be wrong about things. I'm in favor of throwing what I believe out there, and if it gets challenged so be it. I argue with Endus all the time, and when he's right shift my viewpoints (just off the top of my head when we argued whether or not Canada was actually suppressing freedom of speech, and that the bar for something going wrong was so massively high that it was not a concern). But lying?

I'm sorry if there are things going on right now that are pushing you to some breaking point. But even if I am wrong... being wrong isn't lying to you. And you've been shitting yourself in rage at even small, mild things I've said for fucking years.

Because at this point everything points to "i have no argument to make against this point so lets use the pigeon strategy."

[cubby]

Any word on what the actual plan is going to be? I'm seeing details about $1,200 checks per person under $75,000 income.

[NM 156]

I'll believe that it's coming my way when the check clears. Also, now is not the time for means testing. If you are deeply concerned about the upper middle classes and rich benefiting from this as well (i'm not) then make it so that on the next years taxes if your income is above a certain value you the 1200 or whatever amount is owed back.

[Spectral]

Looks like whether my wife and I get anything depends on whether the means test is gross income or net taxable income. If I do get cash, I'll be spending at local bars/restaurants that are closed up from this but still doing curb-side carryaway. I want these guys to still have businesses to come back to when it's over.

[Twdft]

Not living in the USA but I think the only thing y'all should use it for is to make sure you can pay rent/mortgage so you don't lose your home.

[Zan15]

Any word on what the actual plan is going to be? I'm seeing details about $1,200 checks per person under $75,000 income.

Nope and no one will till its actually passed. It will keep changing as special interest keeps piling in till the last minute.

so far its anywhere from 0-600-1200-2400+.....and counting.

The house was so much in disagreement they now started drafting their own.

[breadisfunny]

on absolutely nothing since i doubt they will pass any sort of bill.

[Zan15]

on absolutely nothing since i doubt they will pass any sort of bill.

Ya they will by tomorrow it's just a matter whom is going to get which of the bigger bucket of trillions in new debt


Also based on premarket funds and overseas I think an open of -4 to -5%.

[Powerogue]

Gotta pay for these certification exams somehow. College never seems to stop draining me of that darn money. You think you've got assistance in paying, but then the extra fees for things like study material, parking, etc. over double the bill.

[Kasierith]

Gotta pay for these certification exams somehow. College never seems to stop draining me of that darn money. You think you've got assistance in paying, but then the extra fees for things like study material, parking, etc. over double the bill.

Gotta pay for marble entryways and multi-thousand dollar executive furniture pieces somehow.