All things considered...BfA had some pretty nice RPG-like fun customization

[A Chozo]

I mean, yes, but this mmo-champion, so no, you are wrong, Ion is the worst dev ever and BfA is somehow worse than WoD.

[TickTickTick]

Also Vulpera camps. That shit is useful.

Oh man, I wish I had that racial without having to play vulpera...

[Magical Mudcrab]

I dont know what is peoples problem with passive damage increases.
Isnt it fun seeing your DPS sky rocket?

SURE, in the perfect world ALL customization would change your playstyle to the point of feeling you are playing an entire different spec...
But i dont think is fair to ask for that...just imagine all things you get chaning your playstyle...

Just from my example.
I do random BGs with Brewmaster Monk atm and my DPS was 7k...pitiful i know.

I picked Crucible of Flame essence and got a corrupted item that does damage in AoE...and my DPS sky rocketed to 10k.

Isnt this fun?
(in PVE i do a lot more damage...like 15-18k)

No, not at all. Why would I find some dps effect like Twilight Devastation fun? It's a random corruption that I didn't work towards, and just happens to increase my AoE DPS by thousands. Hell, some classes have 20-30% of their damage being just from corruption effects, such as Infinite Stars for Demon Hunters which is simmed as doing from 8~k - 15~k, depending on the item's level. It's actually insane that this system was released.

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I mean, yes, but this mmo-champion, so no, you are wrong, Ion is the worst dev ever and BfA is somehow worse than WoD.

Sweet, gotta love comments where people look at any negative opinions about in-game systems and try and hand-wave them without reason. 10/10

[Kehego]

The artifact with 0 customization, but also ensured you did not need to farm weeks upon weeks for a specific set of Azerite traits or Corruption effects in order to have comparable dps to your peers. Granted, the Legion Legendaries for some classes had similar issues (like Pyromancer's Bracers for Mages), but for the most part the effect wasn't as exaggerated as Azerite or Corruption has been.

LFR player detected.

You mean you don't remember farming dungeons for the relic then to go to the netherlight crucible and get shit and have to go farm it again? lolololol

[Adamas102]

Azerie Gear
Corruption
Essences
Fun trinkets
Armor and Weapons with special unique passives/actives

How are any of these considered "RPG customization"? Corruption maybe, for some players. But for the most part they all just come down to either RNG or ilvl/sim comparison. You have a really low bar for what "RPG" should mean.

[Big Thanks]

How are any of these considered "RPG customization"? Corruption maybe, for some players. But for the most part they all just come down to either RNG or ilvl/sim comparison. You have a really low bar for what "RPG" should mean.

Is there any customization that doesnt require ilvl/sim comparison?

[Puupi]

There could have been fun customization if Blizzard had spent even 10 minutes on issuing balance patches considering talents and azerite traits during this expansion.

[Edward Wu]

RPG and BfA are two things I would never think about together.

Rental systems are not rpg. Infinite journey without a destination is not rpg. It's abuse.

[Big Thanks]

There could have been fun customization if Blizzard had spent even 10 minutes on issuing balance patches considering talents and azerite traits during this expansion.

This thread really begs the question..."what is good rpg-customization then?"

Since most people disagree...what in the hell is good customization?

[Selah]

Eh, I don't know. Azerite gear wasn't I would consider something that presented any RPG-esque type choice. It boiled down to basically "oh hey, this trait works best for my spec so I'm going to choose it." At least the ones that had the most impact. The other traits were easy enough to ignore. This all being from an RPG point of view and not a raiding point of view where that is completely numbers driven.

I do like corruption, but (at least to me) it doesn't feel very RPG to me. It really seems to boil down to what's the most bang I can get for keeping my corruption under X level?

There was a bit of customization with essences but it wasn't anything I cared for because it was completely removed from my character in any meaningful way. It wasn't related to my class, my race, my choices, the zones, the world. Whereas with artifact weapons I deeply cared about the Doomhammer and really loved every level I got for it.

I did love the punchcard trinket, that was really fun. Kul Tiran with the 1000% breath punch card? Stupid, meaningless, has no bearing on anything, and yet I absolutely adored it. Same with the rings.

I don't know, to me the only time WoW really had that RPG feel to it when it came to character progression was when it had the full talent tree system it. I know there were cookie cutter builds and all that but I still loved having that choice in that game. I could just be an old codger though.

[A Chozo]

This thread really begs the question..."what is good rpg-customization then?"

Since most people disagree...what in the hell is good customization?

Look, Bob, is simple.

If I like the thing, is excellent design.
If I dislike it, is pure absolute trash and shouldn't even be classified as customization.

[Morgaith]

*insert trump* "Wrong"

[DemonDays]

Azerie Gear
Corruption
Essences
Fun trinkets
Armor and Weapons with special unique passives/actives
Benthic Casino Royale

And Shadowlands is promised to fix the problem of "acquisition agency"
Future seems bright to me.

Do you enjoy this fun little things?
Or "customization" for you is a pain in the ass because it only means you are required to farm a specific thing (min maxing)...without total control over the acquisition methods?

Is this a joke thread?

BfA has consistently neutered RPG aspects of this game again. For the 3rd time in a row.

You can't even choose what weapons you would like to use anymore. You're locked.



Azerite Gear - Maybe these would be actually fun to swap and change if they dropped in a plentiful manner and they were balanced properly. As it stands now for all 4 specs I play there is 1-2 traits that are better than everything else by a wide fucking margin. Why would I ever use any other trait?
Corruption - No. These are RNG drops, again. Before this week they weren't dropping plentifully enough and most people are done with the patch anyway.
Essences - This is actually a decent system but the acquisition is bad for alts. This has recently been fixed but only because sub numbers would be nose diving without it. I actually swapped and changed essences depending on the content I was doing - great customization. But they're boring, generic abilities.
Fun trinkets - ????. Haven't seen anything special this expansion that we didn't get last expansion.
Armor and Weapons with special unique passives/actives - Where? Besides the bleed 2 handed sword from kings rest that has been BiS for the whole expansion? We got better unique shit in other expansions.
Benthic Casino Royale - disgusting.



I struggle to call this game an MMORPG anymore.

How is it an MMO when I never see the same people from my server anymore? There's no community due to shitty shards and CRZ. How is it an MMO when all I do is queue for instances from an instanced hub city area? The world content is some of the worst on offer in any MMO ever. World Quests, dailies and rares do not make the world feel "alive".

RPG? Laughable. Player agency and choice has consistently been removed in favour of disgusting RNG and forced grinds. Player choice with their character builds has also been neutered and removed. The amount of useless talents is hilarious.

From level 80 I don't get a single new baseline ability. I receive my last talent point at level 100 when the cap is level 120. RPG, what a joke.

[Big Thanks]

@DemonDays

What is to you "good customization" if even essences are boring to you?
I said in the OP the "problem" with this customziation is lack of agency on the acquisition methods....but man...everyone is complaining and not a single word on what kind of customziation is good...

[Adamas102]

Is there any customization that doesnt require ilvl/sim comparison?

For WoW? Pretty much just cosmetics.

[DemonDays]

@DemonDays

What is to you "good customization" if even essences are boring to you?
I said in the OP the "problem" with this customziation is lack of agency on the acquisition methods....but man...everyone is complaining and not a single word on what kind of customziation is good...

Re-read my post.

I said Essences were a good bit of customization and it was great that we could swap and change them at will for different types of content.

It's the acquisition that was bullshit - especially for alts.

I said I find the abilities themselves quite boring. Because they're all generic across all classes.


The kind of customization I like? Actual RPG mechanics like different builds. Being able to chose what weapon I want to use?

Do I want to play a Frost DK that swings fast for heaps of small hits or do I want a slow hitting 2 hander? I can't choose anymore.

The talent balance in this expansion is hilariously bad - for my Unholy DK there has been a single cookie cutter build all expansion long. Some of the talents are 30% behind some others meaning they are NEVER picked. This is Blizzards fault and no one elses.


I like actual progression. Why have I not received a new ability in 5+ years? Why haven't I got a single new talent row in 4+ years?

Why can't we have a secondary talent tree? A complimentary one with passives in it that you could customize your build further? Why has the game been streamlined and dumbed down for years on end?

[Wheeler]

You do realize that most classes just used boring stacking buff legendaries, yea?

"Most"?

Rogue Shoulders gave you 100% crit and were insanely fun.

Mage double Time Warp?

We're not even talking about the "Fun ones" like double heroic leap, etc.

So yeah, they were infinitely better than "GAIN 12% HASTE FROM ALL SOURCES". I can't even understand the argument here.

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I dont know what is peoples problem with passive damage increases.
Isnt it fun seeing your DPS sky rocket?

Because if you need to implement passive haste increases then you've got the entire class design incorrect from the start.

I've said it before - Haste should be done away with entirely, and every class should have the equivalent of 30% baseline. Spend the time actually making fun abilities. Not "Who can get the most haste so their class doesn't feel like whack a mole?".

[Spiral Mage]

I like most of the ideas they have tried this expansion.
But when I say that .. I mean I like that they were trying new ideas out.

In actual execution .. I have problems with just about all of them.
So I'm not upset about any of it but I'd be critical of how a lot this stuff turned out.

[Palapop]

Azerie Gear
Corruption
Essences
Fun trinkets
Armor and Weapons with special unique passives/actives
Benthic Casino Royale

And Shadowlands is promised to fix the problem of "acquisition agency"
Future seems bright to me.

Do you enjoy this fun little things?
Or "customization" for you is a pain in the ass because it only means you are required to farm a specific thing (min maxing)...without total control over the acquisition methods?

You can throw all that garbage away and bring back pre-wod glyph system. And it's gg

[docterfreeze]

This thread really begs the question..."what is good rpg-customization then?"

Since most people disagree...what in the hell is good customization?

If the customization results in clearly unique builds, if it changes the way you play, if synergies can be created within the system and between systems, if you're able to focus power into individual aspects of your character, all while the top build is never more than 2-3% stronger than any given custom build, that's ideal RPG customization. All BfA customization systems from talents to curruption fail at one step or another, and all fail to be balanced.

I can think of no better example than the steady aim build in uldir. It was the strongest build for MM hunter at the time but it created a two button rotation of steady shot (to stack steady aim and fish for lethal shot procs) and aimed shot. It was easy to play and proc heavy but satisfying for those who just wanted massive aimed shot crits. MM players complained about the two button rotation and there was no other viable build. Instead of nerfing it or buffing other traits and talents to encourage other builds it was removed from the game when they reworked lethal shots. The steady aim azerite trait has also been worthless ever since.