Mega-Thread: Trump Focused Discussion

[Breccia]

It's time for Guess the Midnight Tweeter!

I watch and listen to the Fake News, CNN, MSDNC, ABC, NBC, CBS, some of FOX (desperately & foolishly pleading to be politically correct), the NYTimes, & the Washington Post, and all I see is hatred of me at any cost. Don’t they understand that they are destroying themselves?

Yeah, I don't even have to spell the answer out.

By the way, let's talk about "Don’t they understand that they are destroying themselves?" for a minute. Because Trump wasn't done.

WE CANNOT LET THE CURE BE WORSE THAN THE PROBLEM ITSELF. AT THE END OF THE 15 DAY PERIOD, WE WILL MAKE A DECISION AS TO WHICH WAY WE WANT TO GO!

Yep. That's an all-caps tweet, right there.

Now, this Axios analysis -- remember the days when major news organizations didn't have to analyze late-night all-caps tweets, because they weren't being sent by the man running the country? Pepperidge Farm remembers -- comes to the conclusion that, at the end of March (15 days from March 16, "I felt it was a pandemic long before it was called a pandemic") Trump and his loyalists will start ordering the US to defy his own doctors' advice. That he'll be sick of a low stock market and high unemployment and will order people to leave their houses and get back to work.

And Pence is already on board.

Vice President Pence, who heads the White House's Coronavirus Task Force, had signaled the change in tone earlier when he said the CDC will issue guidance today allowing people exposed to the coronavirus to return to work sooner by wearing a mask for a certain length of time.

By the way, something else Trump has said recently needs to be called into question:

We're a country not based on nationalizing our business. Call a person over in Venezuela. How did nationalization of their businesses work out? Not too well.

That's Trump, talking about the DPA. Now, I'm not necessarily for or against nationalization in this context, because quite frankly, it's a grey ethical area and I'm not an expert. But even my non-expertness has three things to say.

1) The DPA is an emergency measure. It is intended to be short-term. Venezuela is not doing that, they are just flat-out keeping everything. Trump's argument is a lot like saying "There is no global warming because it snowed yesterday."

2) The call for more life-saving supplies is increasing in severity. For example:

We urge that the Defense Production Act be fully employed. We have people that are making masks at home and donating them to the hospital.

-- Rick Pollack, head of the AHA

3) Most importantly, the DPA does not nationalize businesses. It forces a business to make what the government says. Considering the great demand for medical supplies, I would hope that some of these companies wouldn't mind so much, but that part's secondary. Trump just flat-out doesn't know what the DPA does.

The US govt is no strange to nationalization. The GM and AIG bailouts, for example, gave the government/taxpayers a substantial share. The DPA doesn't do that. For more information about the DPA, this Military Times article spells it out. You'll note it says the govt uses things like loans and purchase contracts (see also, "bailout") but does not say "the government runs the show and takes everything".

Trump has claimed recently that some companies have already swapped to making requested goods. Fine. But there's also been calls by hospitals and states saying that's not enough. I admit I'm a capitalist, and I admit I don't know why more companies aren't making these things. Nor do I know if nationalization is called for at this time. Flat-out admit ignorance there. But that doesn't mean lying to the American people about the DPA's effect is called for, either, especially when it looks like an excuse for Trump's lack of action. Again.

- - - Updated - - -

Well Trump is going to fuck up again it seems.

Wait, what are you...

(checks source)

Oh, dear God. Holy shit. That lines up with everything I just posted.

- - - Updated - - -

So Ocasio-Cortez proposed an interesting idea. It's probably shared by others, but people love them some AOC for some reason.

Anyhow the idea was "Give everyone a check, and next year, ask for proof of financial hardship due to the coronavirus. If you don't have proof, your taxes go up by the amount of the check".

The idea behind this economic saturation bombing is that the money doesn't need to wait for some kind of hardship litmus test. Yes, Bill Gates gets a check (his name was cited by the NY Rep). Yes, he'd send it back. So would I.

She also mentioned that hourly and gig workers aren't covered by unemployment. I have no idea if that's true. Can someone fill me in please?

[Dontrike]

Another great video from Legal Eagle about C-19 and what the White House did.

[Breccia]

So Iran is now competing in the Troll Olympics and is making a run for the silver (nobody beats NK).

"Do you want to help us fight the coronavirus, America?" Iran asks directly into the camera. "How about removing those sanctions you placed on us, even though we were agreeing to the Iran Nuclear Deal? You wouldn't even need any special authority and it would get much-needed money and supplies to all those sick people we denied having. You could do it. Like, right now."

Iran sticks the landing.

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I want America to understand: This week, it's going to get bad.

We really need to come together as a nation. I think there are a lot of people who are doing the right things, but I think that, unfortunately, we're finding out a lot of people think this can't happen to them.

We don't want Dallas, or New Orleans, or Chicago to turn into the next New York, and it means that everyone needs to be taking the right steps, right now. And that means stay at home

-- the US Surgeon General

Wanna see the video?

He also held up a paper while saying "the fifteen day initiative". I'm getting increasingly worried that "Trump pivot" I just posted about will be the case.

[Poopymonster]

She also mentioned that hourly and gig workers aren't covered by unemployment. I have no idea if that's true. Can someone fill me in please?

Gig workers are, at least according my friend who does Uber when he's not substitute teaching and another who does Lyft when she's not doing online college courses, to quote George Carlin. SOLJWF. Shit Out of Luck and Jolly Well Fucked.

I want to be wrong. I'd love to be wrong.

[Breccia]

SOLJWF

This OP ED is dated March 20 so it's a touch out of date, but, near as I can tell all the major bits are accurate. And highly relevant to SOLJWF.

The GOP's coronavirus relief package is a dream for big corporations and a nightmare for struggling Americans

You know what, after a line like that, I'm not sure I need to quote the whole thing. The author did have a convenient shorthand/TLDR version at the start:

While the president says he wants to help Americans workers through the coronavirus pandemic, behind the scenes his party is crafting legislation that would leave the least fortunate behind.

Republicans are working on an aid package that would send cash payments of up to $1,200 to some workers. But for Americans who don't pay or pay very little income tax that would decrease to as low as $600. Some Republicans have lobbied against cash payments entirely.

This is appalling. The bill features a bunch of dreams-come-true for big corporations too.

This isn't just cruel — it's bad economics. The more people have to pay bills and spend as normally as they can now, the easier it will be to get the economy rolling again when this is over.

However, the author points out one thing that's escaped notice. The Senate GOP have put into their bill a tax cut on corporations, specifically for bringing foreign cash home.

"I thought the tax cut for the rich was supposed to do that?"

Well, it didn't. Now, they'll have incentive to bring it back, pay next to nothing, destroy yet another part of the "tax cut for the rich will pay for itself" debunked myth, and there's no stipulation they use this money to help America -- see also "stock buybacks".

By the way, that "bringing foreign money home without paying a fair share of taxes" is something that's been going on since it was mentioned so heavily in 2017.

Sen. Wyden [D-ORE-refinery] added that he'd like to see certain corporate tax breaks stripped from the GOP bill, including one provision that would fix a 2017 tax law mistake and help U.S. firms with foreign subsidiaries.

According to records filed with the Senate, companies like Atlanta-based Coca-Cola Co. and the trade association representing hedge funds have been lobbying for standalone legislation, introduced last year by Georgia Rep. John Lewis, a Democrat, and former Sen. Johnny Isakson, R-Ga., to correct the drafting error.

"That is a complete nonstarter for us on our side. Senate Democrats are going to oppose it very strongly and I think the administration will have a very tough time trying to defend that," said Wyden. He added the provision has “nothing to do with COVID-19” and is “fundamentally unfair.”

Incidentally, that's not all that's in the bill. Schumer has already called out how it lets businesses "pull a Trump" by which I mean use the losses suffered this year to offset earnings in prior years. Trump did something similar to this when an old tax return of his was leaked, showing he lost so much in one year he probably didn't have to pay income taxes for decades.

This bill isn't going anywhere without stronger support for the nation's poor and working class. We tried helping workers by means of helping powerful corporations. It was the tax cut for the rich. It didn't help. Trusting companies to do it when given even more money, regardless of the reason, ventures into the definition of insanity.

[Omega10]

SNIP

This post is quite depressing. It means that Trump is not the problem, he is just one teeny tiny part of the problem. As the pie gets smaller, it looks like corporations are going to fight that much harder to get every bit of the pie they can get. And this in the middle of a rapidly growing virus.

This is class warfare fought as viciously as it can be fought. There is no other way to describe it.

[Endus]

This post is quite depressing. It means that Trump is not the problem, he is just one teeny tiny part of the problem. As the pie gets smaller, it looks like corporations are going to fight that much harder to get every bit of the pie they can get. And this in the middle of a rapidly growing virus.

This is class warfare fought as viciously as it can be fought. There is no other way to describe it.

And this is why "eat the rich" keeps gaining traction.

Class warfare like this only works as long as the poor (which in the USA, includes the middle class) are willing to put up with being attacked from above.

The moment they really take issue with it? There's a reason the guillotine was invented, and that reason was to make killing the rich as efficient as possible in Revolutionary France. Because they had so much killing to do, they didn't want to waste time. That's what happens. Tension rises to a tipping point, and then the wealthy lose. The only way around that is if the wealthy are also the military arm, in the sense that the rich landowner is also a knight (the equivalent of active special forces), with heavy weaponry that's simply not available to the peasantry. And that's flatly not the case, in the modern world. They can't defend themselves against the masses, so they really have two options, in the long run;

1> Minimize predation to a level that doesn't upset the working and middle class, or
2> Die a brutal death, and lose everything in the process.

It's that cut-and-dry.

And no; I'm not encouraging the killing. I'm pointing out that it's inevitable if you keep trying to squeeze the workers like this. They'll only put up with it so long.

[Breccia]

It means that Trump is not the problem, he is just one teeny tiny part of the problem.

We'll disagree on "teeny". There was a lot of lead-in to this problem.

I'm not disagreeing with the spirit of your point of course. If the corporations that got the tax cut for the rich had used more of it to shore up their defenses or promote worker pay like we were promised, fewer people would be in such fiscal dire straits right now.

[cubby]

When you're putting Cheney in a positive light without flinching you just know how self harming this government is to the american public.

Agreed. I was nauseous to do it, but he would have handled this entire thing 100% better.

[Thekri]

Agreed. I was nauseous to do it, but he would have handled this entire thing 100% better.

Well, sort of. He is exactly the sort of forceful asshole that we need in situations like this, but he would also have been ruthless at exploiting the situation to enrich his corporate backers. Which is exactly what the GOP is doing right now, so it isn't lack that would change, he would just be better at it. So he would probably be like 75% better then Trump on this. Far more mature and competent, but not significantly less greedy and evil.

I actually think Pence would be better then Cheney at this. Pence would be about George W. Bush levels of competent in this role, and if you remember 9/11, that wasn't actually all that bad. If there is one thing George Bush did really well, it was projecting leadership during a crisis.

[cubby]

It's time for Guess the Midnight Tweeter!



Yeah, I don't even have to spell the answer out.

By the way, let's talk about "Don’t they understand that they are destroying themselves?" for a minute. Because Trump wasn't done.



Yep. That's an all-caps tweet, right there.

Now, this Axios analysis -- remember the days when major news organizations didn't have to analyze late-night all-caps tweets, because they weren't being sent by the man running the country? Pepperidge Farm remembers -- comes to the conclusion that, at the end of March (15 days from March 16, "I felt it was a pandemic long before it was called a pandemic") Trump and his loyalists will start ordering the US to defy his own doctors' advice. That he'll be sick of a low stock market and high unemployment and will order people to leave their houses and get back to work.

And Pence is already on board.



By the way, something else Trump has said recently needs to be called into question:



That's Trump, talking about the DPA. Now, I'm not necessarily for or against nationalization in this context, because quite frankly, it's a grey ethical area and I'm not an expert. But even my non-expertness has three things to say.

1) The DPA is an emergency measure. It is intended to be short-term. Venezuela is not doing that, they are just flat-out keeping everything. Trump's argument is a lot like saying "There is no global warming because it snowed yesterday."

2) The call for more life-saving supplies is increasing in severity. For example:


-- Rick Pollack, head of the AHA

3) Most importantly, the DPA does not nationalize businesses. It forces a business to make what the government says. Considering the great demand for medical supplies, I would hope that some of these companies wouldn't mind so much, but that part's secondary. Trump just flat-out doesn't know what the DPA does.

The US govt is no strange to nationalization. The GM and AIG bailouts, for example, gave the government/taxpayers a substantial share. The DPA doesn't do that. For more information about the DPA, this Military Times article spells it out. You'll note it says the govt uses things like loans and purchase contracts (see also, "bailout") but does not say "the government runs the show and takes everything".

Trump has claimed recently that some companies have already swapped to making requested goods. Fine. But there's also been calls by hospitals and states saying that's not enough. I admit I'm a capitalist, and I admit I don't know why more companies aren't making these things. Nor do I know if nationalization is called for at this time. Flat-out admit ignorance there. But that doesn't mean lying to the American people about the DPA's effect is called for, either, especially when it looks like an excuse for Trump's lack of action. Again.

- - - Updated - - -



Wait, what are you...

(checks source)

Oh, dear God. Holy shit. That lines up with everything I just posted.

I'm just stunned, continually, that Trump can manage to fuck this up more and more each and every day. I mean, I'm not surprised, just stunned - if that makes any sense.

So Ocasio-Cortez proposed an interesting idea. It's probably shared by others, but people love them some AOC for some reason.

Anyhow the idea was "Give everyone a check, and next year, ask for proof of financial hardship due to the coronavirus. If you don't have proof, your taxes go up by the amount of the check".

The idea behind this economic saturation bombing is that the money doesn't need to wait for some kind of hardship litmus test. Yes, Bill Gates gets a check (his name was cited by the NY Rep). Yes, he'd send it back. So would I.

She also mentioned that hourly and gig workers aren't covered by unemployment. I have no idea if that's true. Can someone fill me in please?

Hours employees are absolutely covered by unemployment. Gig workers...uncertain, since they are composed of people who may or may not get a "paycheck" - unemployment is old fashioned, still, and require some solid proof of employment - although those requirements are pretty broad. "Did you get paid" - sign up.

[Acidbaron]

Well, sort of. He is exactly the sort of forceful asshole that we need in situations like this, but he would also have been ruthless at exploiting the situation to enrich his corporate backers. Which is exactly what the GOP is doing right now, so it isn't lack that would change, he would just be better at it. So he would probably be like 75% better then Trump on this. Far more mature and competent, but not significantly less greedy and evil.

I actually think Pence would be better then Cheney at this. Pence would be about George W. Bush levels of competent in this role, and if you remember 9/11, that wasn't actually all that bad. If there is one thing George Bush did really well, it was projecting leadership during a crisis.

Pence would make it about the nation and issue not about himself, he doesn't feel the need to stand in the spotlight. As for his management skills capabilities i haven't got the faintest idea, his ideological background makes him a rather uninteresting person to look into.

[Mayhem]

Well, sort of. He is exactly the sort of forceful asshole that we need in situations like this, but he would also have been ruthless at exploiting the situation to enrich his corporate backers. Which is exactly what the GOP is doing right now, so it isn't lack that would change, he would just be better at it. So he would probably be like 75% better then Trump on this. Far more mature and competent, but not significantly less greedy and evil.

I actually think Pence would be better then Cheney at this. Pence would be about George W. Bush levels of competent in this role, and if you remember 9/11, that wasn't actually all that bad. If there is one thing George Bush did really well, it was projecting leadership during a crisis.

Uhm, George W Bush was played by Rumsfeld like a fiddle.

[Beefhammer]

If there is one thing George Bush did really well, it was projecting leadership during a crisis.

Um, were you around back then, becasue he gave off as much confidence as a wet fart. The dud always came off as a bumbling idiot not that seemed in over his head. He just had way more compassion and civility than Trump. I never felt like Bush was in charge from day one until the end. Stories since then has proven he was just a useful idiot played by the GOP.

[Reclaimer]

Just felt like I had to post this here

"DeMs UsInG ThE CoRoNaViRuS to AttAcK TrUmP iS SiLly " ( Even tho thats all dems are talking about right now )

Heres some facts for you :

President Trump :
COVID-19 Coronavirus
US cases to date : 15,219
US deaths to date : 203
Panic level : Mass hysteria

President Obama
H1N1
US cases peak at time : 60.8 MILLION
US deaths peak at time : 12,469
Panic level : 0 panic/Nobody cares

Logic? Good ole left-wing controlled media never fails.

BTW thanks Dems for blocking stage 3 so millions of people in us cant pay anything. how do you people justify it I don't know...

[Mayhem]

Just felt like I had to post this here

"DeMs UsInG ThE CoRoNaViRuS to AttAcK TrUmP iS SiLly " ( Even tho thats all dems are talking about right now )

Heres some facts for you :

President Trump :
COVID-19 Coronavirus
US cases to date : 15,219
US deaths to date : 203
Panic level : Mass hysteria

President Obama
H1N1
US cases peak at time : 60.8 MILLION
US deaths peak at time : 12,469
Panic level : 0 panic/Nobody cares

Logic? Good ole left-wing controlled media never fails.

BTW thanks Dems for blocking stage 3 so millions of people in us cant pay anything. how do you people justify it I don't know...

US cases to date: 39,371
US deaths to date: 467

Maybe, just maybe you want to get your numbers right when saying stuff like "here's some facts for you". Oh and could you provide a link to the H1N1 numbers? I am curious to see a timeline comparable to covid-19 if possible.

[PhaelixWW]

Just felt like I had to post this here

Of course you did.

Heres some facts for you :

President Trump :
COVID-19 Coronavrius
US cases to date : 15,219 39,371
US deaths to date : 203 467
Panic level : Mass hysteria

See, this is the sad truth, right here. You post these "facts", but quite literally, right as you call them "facts", they're woefully out of date, because of how fast this is spreading. The real numbers are beside your can't-be-bothered-to-get-live-information "facts", for reference.

President Obama
H1N1
US cases peak at time : 60.8 MILLION
US deaths peak at time : 12,469
Panic level : 0 panic/Nobody cares

Ah, more spin. People cared about H1N1; it was all over the news at the time. And no, there wasn't as large a sense of worry, because H1N1 was less dangerous than the normal seasonal flu, though it affected a larger percentage of the population and was dangerous to a broader age range.

And your other mistake is thinking it's wise to compare the H1N1 virus at its peak with where we are now with COVID-19. We're nowhere near the peak of this yet.

Logic? Good ole left-wing controlled media never fails.

Your response is on the record, now. We'll see how well it ages.

[cubby]

Well, sort of. He is exactly the sort of forceful asshole that we need in situations like this, but he would also have been ruthless at exploiting the situation to enrich his corporate backers. Which is exactly what the GOP is doing right now, so it isn't lack that would change, he would just be better at it. So he would probably be like 75% better then Trump on this. Far more mature and competent, but not significantly less greedy and evil.

I actually think Pence would be better then Cheney at this. Pence would be about George W. Bush levels of competent in this role, and if you remember 9/11, that wasn't actually all that bad. If there is one thing George Bush did really well, it was projecting leadership during a crisis.

Good point - and yeah, Bush/Pence would do the role well. Bush was already great at letting his experts step in and do their thing. He knew that he didn't know, and didn't pretend otherwise.

[Lenonis]

Heres some facts for you :

Here is a fact for you -- this post isn't going to age well.

[Breccia]

Just felt like I had to post this here.

Posting factually false information, like the incorrect death count? Also, I was unaware the coronavirus death count was complete. Isn't it ongoing?

Also, Obama built off the H1N1 to made a CDC task respooooooh right, Trump disbanded that. Anyone who denounces Obama's H1N1 response (such as by posting death numbers) must also denounce the actions taken to slow/stop another similar outbreak. Failure for them to do so is admission of hypocrisy.

Also also, there was plenty of discussion about H1N1 at the time, whether you choose to ignore it or not. Perhaps you weren't paying attention at the time, but many of us are old enough to remember it. Here is an example.

Also also also, "left-wing controlled media" sounds really close to "conspiracy theory".

Also also also also, the Dems were very clear about voting against a massive vague handout to corporations with minimal protection for the average American worker. Personally, I happen to agree with that, especially considering the Fed is helping businesses directly, as recently as this morning. If the Senate wants something to pass, they're going to have to address those concerns, or publicly admit they don't want to help the average American worker as much as the corporations currently laying them off.

Also also also also also, denouncing Democrats for using the coronavirus response to attack Trump, but not denouncing Trump for using the coronavirus response -- which is an Executive Branch move, just so we're clear -- to attack Democrats is admission of hypocrisy. Either politicizing it is wrong no matter who does it, or, demonstrate how Trump's response was the right thing to do. Bear in mind, the internet never forgets, we have things like exact quotes and dates on everything. Including people who intentionally post incorrect death counts.