8.3; Worst Final Patch ever created?

[Jamais]

I don't think a lot of people entered SWP to begin with, as TBC still had "ladder" approach towards patches, it's not like a lot of guilds just stopped their T5 / T6 progression to work on SWP.

Like, SWP is the Naxx of TBC, except less unique art.



If you're taking private servers as measurement of "expansion quality", then there aren't a lot (in the sense that private servers for MoP exist).
Like, most people that i've talked who dislike MoP generally prefer WoW's design of Vanilla / TBC era and thus dislike MoP by default or people that were not a big fan of MoP's theme.

And i quite frankly think that in the broad scheme of things, the latter is getting underestimated by people, there must be a reason why WoW surged by 2,5M subs with WoD release, whereas the MoP resurgence only had ~1M (though both ended up having ~10M total subs).
Like, the promotion material of WoD (Lords of War series for example) was pretty brutal by comparison, they really tried to move away from the serene / silly style of MoP.

Not saying that they are "correct", but you get the idea, MoP was in terms of theme and (art)style a big deviation from WoW's regular pattern.

Outside of raids, MoP didn't have any endgame content to keep people busy. Timeless Isle is overrated, and it's BfA version, Mechagon is far superior by design and mechanics. I didn't have that problem, because i was always ach hunting in downtime, but sincerely, outside of raids, i only remember farming that elite Zandalari mob on a boat near Dino Isle, thanks to the early iteration of CRZ. And that is it. Dungeons were super easy, and people only did Challenge Mode once.

People here are vastly underrating the effort the devs made with Legion and BfA. I was redoing some old achievements in the last year, for fun and nostalgia. I would concentrate on one expansion for a month. It confirmed to me that people have a severe case of rose tinted glasses. Up to WoD, most of content were painful dailies. Molten Front dailies were annoying to do even at 120. Wrath tournament dailies, horrible, even at 120. Sunwell dailies? MoP dailies? Same, both painful to do even at max lvl.

I also love how people are all of sudden praising 7.3, while at the time, hell broke loose because of no flying.


BfA gets a lot of hate not because of the systems - it improved on those coming from Legion. I actually burned out of the game in Legion due to AP farm, and i can't understand people who say HoA is worse - it isn't, by a long shot. I love not being locked into a single weapon anymore. There was LESS time gating in BfA compared to Legion (weekly gating on Suramar questline, anyone???)

No, BfA is hated because wow players don't like ''disjointed'' expansions, because the theme felt less epic then Legion and because of stat squish and new scaling, people felt less powerful. Combined with the rise of ''outrage culture''.

Also, BfA is overall more difficult than Legion (imho Visions blow Mage tower out of the water with difficulty), and once again, people didn't step up (as they didn't in early Cata, so they left en masse).

[Chromell]

they fucked up tuning in cata 10m and even in mop it wasnt close to fixed,even in soo,25m was far easier than 10 and was better loot wise,is the 20 man today REALLY so bad?also flex is simply awsome

It's not that 20M is really so bad, thing is I cherished the possibility of doing endgame content with a small group. On my current server, I dare say 3-4 guilds at most raid Mythic (with relative success). Back in MoP days I had a closed 10M group with friends and we had a blast, that's the kind of thing I'm sad to have lost.

[Kralljin]

Outside of raids, MoP didn't have any endgame content to keep people busy.

A lot of the complaints towards Legion and BfA are ironically based on the fact that Blizzard badly tries to keep players busy.
Which makes both expansions rather alt unfriendly in return.

People here are vastly underrating the effort the devs made with Legion and BfA.

Legion? Not really, Legion had its flaws but is and was generally a well received expansion.

I also love how people are all of sudden praising 7.3, while at the time, hell broke loose because of no flying.

Haven't lost a word on 7.3, so there's that.
Besides, not being able to fly in a single zone is a different story than nearly a year, adding the fact that 7.2 just unlocked flying was also kinda a fauxpas.

BfA gets a lot of hate not because of the systems - it improved on those coming from Legion. I actually burned out of the game in Legion due to AP farm, and i can't understand people who say HoA is worse - it isn't, by a long shot.

Taking into account that they had to fix those systems mid expansion and straight up introduced a new one because Azerite was that terrible - i'd say people are right in their dislike for BfA's systems.
Like, they couldn't even keep a single system within BfA, every Patch either heavily altered an existing one or introduced a new one.

8.1? Azerite Fix
8.2? Essences and Benthic
8.3? Cloak and Corruption

Every patch people need to suddenly re learn how to progress their character - by the actions of the same devs that told us "big class changes mid expansion are off the table because it might confuse people".
MoP's "Systems" by comparison were straight forward "You can now also upgrade your gear via valor points" and "the Wrathion questchain continues".

I love not being locked into a single weapon anymore.

And i don't like carrying multiple pieces of Azerite for different traits, different specs alongside a throng of corrupted items in my inventory - yet here we are.

There was LESS time gating in BfA compared to Legion (weekly gating on Suramar questline, anyone???)

...the questline that was optional once you unlocked Arcway / CoS?

No, BfA is hated because wow players don't like ''disjointed'' expansions, because the theme felt less epic then Legion and because of stat squish and new scaling, people felt less powerful.

If you solely attribute this to stat squish (which has happened before and no one complained over smaller numbers there) and "new" scaling, then i don't think this topic is worth discussing with you.

Combined with the rise of ''outrage culture''.

Not every WoW expansion is some underappreciated masterpiece from which people need to move away from in order to see how good it was.
Simply because people voiced their complaints in every expansion, doesn't mean they are all equally good / bad.

[Doffen]

Okay. Can you show me other forums in which MoP is overall considered a bad expansion, then, please?

First off, I didn't say MoP was bad, I even said it wasn't horrible(though I didn't like it much), I said it got so much praise here and it can't really be that great. So not that people think its so bad, but again, not as great. And it's always those few individuals who comes out and say MoP was so awesome.

But yeah, Wowhead for instance I see much more dislike in MoP compared to here. On reddit it also gets likes, but not like it is here. And don't get me started on how people thinks about in game. But it's very anecdotal, like polls on these forums. It's usually rank below both WotLK and TBC, on different forums, but here it's close to number 1. Which doesn't really add up seeing how the overall reception is.

https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...ur-mind/page45

Here is one from this forum, while it generally is number 2 and even 1 here, it's in this poll the 4th worst, from the same forum-base as those who votes it as number one or two. So polls can be very misleading and variable. It shows what I was trying to say, that it is bold to claim that someone is in minority on an opinion, while the expansion we talk about lost a lot of subs(real numbers) and was received so and so within the player base.

[Ielenia]

If you're taking private servers as measurement of "expansion quality", then there aren't a lot (in the sense that private servers for MoP exist).
Like, most people that i've talked who dislike MoP generally prefer WoW's design of Vanilla / TBC era and thus dislike MoP by default or people that were not a big fan of MoP's theme.

I'm not. I'm talking about what I see in this forum, and the official forums. Doffen says that the MMO-C forums are the only forums in which he sees MoP get praised, so I asked which other forums he goes to.

And i quite frankly think that in the broad scheme of things, the latter is getting underestimated by people, there must be a reason why WoW surged by 2,5M subs with WoD release, whereas the MoP resurgence only had ~1M (though both ended up having ~10M total subs).
Like, the promotion material of WoD (Lords of War series for example) was pretty brutal by comparison, they really tried to move away from the serene / silly style of MoP.

I recall there was this erroneous idea that WoD was supposed to be "TBC 2.0" or something along those lines, that got spread around the community, what with the idea of revisiting old Horde heroes of the past and stuff like that, which contributed for a lot of the initial boost, an idea supported by the fact there was an immediate decline, as fast, or even more so, than its initial resurgence.

[antelope591]

Okay. Can you show me other forums in which MoP is overall considered a bad expansion, then, please?

Every time a best expansion poll comes out MoP is near the top and for good reason. For the record I also think it was the best expansion. These people are living in an alternate reality.

[Doffen]

Every time a best expansion poll comes out MoP is near the top and for good reason. For the record I also think it was the best expansion. These people are living in an alternate reality.

And MoP was 4th worst in one of the poll, only beaten by WoD/Cata/BfA in being worst. So what does that tell you? That a small poll on a site like this doesn't really tell much, besides being true for the users on this forum. Being active on MMO-Champion.com forums is indeed living in an alternate reality

No, I don't see the praise MoP get here compared to other sites, and not in the game either. Of course there are some people that likes it and express that on other sites. My initial point was that saying that people that doesn't like MoP is in minority is a very bold claim to make since you can only support it by some polls here, so it's only true on these forums. And like I linked in a post earlier, in one poll MoP is rated 4th worst expansion even. So there are a quite the dislikes as well.

It isn't about what you like or what I like, or whos being right. You might be right with saying MoP was the best expansion ever. I don't see that at all. But that's not the point. Saying someone is in minority when you really don't know is a flaw by default.

[Jinpachi]

You're welcome to your opinion, but I hope you at least recognize you're in the minority here, since, according to many, many polls here on MMO-C, the majority of people rank MoP within the top 3 of their lists.

I honestly enjoyed MoP classes, and no, I didn't play a warlock back then, and I never did.

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You don't seem to know what "reality" and "minority" is.

Most people rank it as a good expansion. Very few rank it as a bad expansion.

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"Elephant men"...?

use some fucking imagination, you know exactly what im talking about.

[Beerbill Society]

Dragon soul was a year long 8 boss raid full of reused assets with 2 of the worst fights in the entire game. Nya is a god in comparison.

At least DS had a end boss cinematic better than the 20s copy of LotR ending lol

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ToC is my favorite raid <3 No trash, little (0) running to different bosses <3 All raids should be ToC

It was fun for a filler raid, the only problem was the many lockdowns you had to do but other than that I don't get all the hate.

[iamthedevil]

All I know is that 8.3 is the one and only final patch that I have not come back to play for.

[Highelf]

That is correct. Legion an BfA are the 2 worst expansions they have ever made. I hope they learn from their mistakes and make Shadowlands better though i don't think i'll be holding my breath.

You're entitled to your opinion but Legion was a very good expansion.

[cparle87]

whatever they decide to count they do, it is their word
they counted selfie patch as a full patch, even if blizz own employees for a while weren't even sure to call it a patch or not in first place

Except it wasn't just the selfie cam. Did you ever look at the patch notes? They added a lot in that patch, but people just fixated on the thing they hated. Hell, look at the voice chat patch from BC.

[Argorwal]

I would rate 8.3 has only worse than 7.3.

3.3 was a 2 month timegated raid and catchup dungeons.

5.4 was boring isle of rare farming.

Both also lasted > 1 year

[Onikaroshi]

At least DS had a end boss cinematic better than the 20s copy of LotR ending lol

I mean, i don't care too much about something I'll watch all of one time lol.

[ro9ue]

Ruby Sanctum, why does everyone forget that was a thing? Or does it not count because it was a X.X.5 patch?

[Shadowsgrace]

Is this the worst final patch of all time? 3.3, 5.4 and 7.3 were so much better it's not even funny.

Even Dragon Soul wasn't this bad, nor was Hellfire. At least their raids were amazing.

Ummm Dragon Soul brought the worst thing to Wow... LFR. nothing will beat that, let alone the year and 1/2 of Dragon Soul Farming.

They even had to Bribe us with Free Diablo 3, and the Tyreal Charger mount. to keep playing for a year.

[froschhure]

It's not the patch itself but the systems around it that are trash.

yes exactly this.

It's not wow patch itself but the blizzard systems around it that are trash.

[Shadowsgrace]

Ruby Sanctum, why does everyone forget that was a thing? Or does it not count because it was a X.X.5 patch?

Because it was part of "Wrath of the Lich King" the penultimate expac in most people's opinion. Their can't be a blight on it. I remember Ruby Sanctum, I was there man, I saw things... I saw stuff... I remember zoning into the Raid 3 hours before raid, and not AFK'ing out, just so my Guild had a lockout... (remembering Ulduar Launch, another blemish people gloss over). Don't get me wrong WotLK was a great expac, probably my 2nd or 3rd favorite.

[Sondrelk]

Ruby Sanctum, why does everyone forget that was a thing? Or does it not count because it was a X.X.5 patch?

It was part of WotLK, so people ignore it so as not to damage their perception that WotLK was a shining masterpiece of MMOs where everything worked perfectly and all patches were great.

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Because it was part of "Wrath of the Lich King" the penultimate expac in most people's opinion. Their can't be a blight on it. I remember Ruby Sanctum, I was there man, I saw things... I saw stuff... I remember zoning into the Raid 3 hours before raid, and not AFK'ing out, just so my Guild had a lockout... (remembering Ulduar Launch, another blemish people gloss over). Don't get me wrong WotLK was a great expac, probably my 2nd or 3rd favorite.

Players generally tend ot forget negative experiences quickly and replace them with good experiences. Which is why i remember enjoying WoD more than BfA when i more likely have forgotten all the times i was bored out of my mind waiting for my guilds BRF raid to fill up when i could replace those memories with having fun with friends.
Happened already with Legion as well, players have already forgotten how terrible the endgame content was at launch when it came to grinding the aritfact and praying you would get a legiondary taht was actually useful instead of the PvP ring or something. Or how players talk about mage tower, forgetting how it was the sole moment of quality in what is arguably one of the worst patches put into an expansion, where the "raid questline" consisted of 10 generic quests on a weekly lockout with no story behind them whatsoever.

[Kralljin]

Ruby Sanctum, why does everyone forget that was a thing? Or does it not count because it was a X.X.5 patch?

If you count that, then we also need to count 7.3.5, which was just an epilogue patch.