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  1. #401
    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    what are you even on

    i was saying tis bullshit and hypocrite as fuck humans claiming the world as theirs so so orcs should go away, when the humans themselves steal land from other races
    Well, humans did not invade Draenor after drinking demon blood, did they not?

  2. #402
    All playable races stole land from the Black Empire. Trolls are thieves just like humans. The only difference is that humans are much hotter.
    Last edited by Varodoc; 2020-03-24 at 04:30 PM.
    Expansion Storylines ranking:

    Legion > Cataclysm > MoP > BfA up to 8.2.5 > Wrath > TBC > WoD > Dragonflight > BfA 8.3 > Shadowlands

  3. #403
    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    All playable races stole land from the Black Empire. Trolls are thieves just like humans. The only difference is that humans are much hotter.
    trolls, unlike humans, didnt fought the old gods for the land. they were the first active civilized race since the ordering and found a wild azeroth.
    they never stole nothing...

  4. #404
    Mechagnome
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    Shattered sun offensive, Highmountain Tauren, The Nightfallen says hello.

  5. #405
    The Insane Syegfryed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Specialka View Post
    Well, humans did not invade Draenor after drinking demon blood, did they not?
    well, they did invade other people lands and slaughter then without demon blood and without being corrupted or deceived at all

  6. #406
    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    well, they did invade other people lands and slaughter then without demon blood and without being corrupted or deceived at all
    And they did so to settle their ppl while orcs did not.

  7. #407
    Quote Originally Posted by Specialka View Post
    And they did so to settle their ppl while orcs did not.
    Their people were already settled and kept up with the expansionism...

  8. #408
    In this thread, we're reminded once again that Horde apologists think:

    1) Someone being chased by serial murderers is to blame for the murderers' actions.
    2) Someone being chased by serial murderers should allow themselves to be killed.
    Quote Originally Posted by Alex86el View Post
    "Orc want, orc take." and "Orc dissagrees, orc kill you to win argument."
    Quote Originally Posted by Toho View Post
    The Horde is basically the guy that gets mad that the guy that they just beat the crap out of had the audacity to bleed on them.
    Why no, people don't just like Sylvie for T&A: https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...ery-Cinematic/

  9. #409
    Quote Originally Posted by Feanoro View Post
    In this thread, we're reminded once again that Horde apologists think:

    1) Someone being chased by serial murderers is to blame for the murderers' actions.
    2) Someone being chased by serial murderers should allow themselves to be killed.
    3) Stealing land is fine so long as you have tusks and disgusting feet with only 2 toes.
    Expansion Storylines ranking:

    Legion > Cataclysm > MoP > BfA up to 8.2.5 > Wrath > TBC > WoD > Dragonflight > BfA 8.3 > Shadowlands

  10. #410
    Quote Originally Posted by Beerbill Society View Post
    They worked with Demon Hunters, their standards were pretty low already, bit yes its sketchy.
    it's not like they had much choice tbh.

  11. #411
    Quote Originally Posted by Moonrage View Post
    So what's the deal with making factions that were originally Alliance affiliated neutral? It's honestly insulting to Alliance players that iconic alliance factions are now open to the Horde. Examples of these factions include:

    - The Kirin Tor. I know that they've always had strong ties with Silvermoon but it was originally a human kingdom. And we all know how the Horde betrayed them back in MoP.

    - Argent Dawn (now Argent Crusade).

    - Knights of the Silver Hand. Originally a human organisation of Paladins, now Paladins of every race are allowed in (including Blood Elves and Tauren).

    - Cenarion Circle and Cenarion Expedition. I know this is technically a Night Elf organisation, but anyway. This one makes the least sense of them all. Not even Night Elf women were allowed in when it was first founded. Now every idiot that can grow a pumpkin gets a membership. It makes even less sense after the War of Thorns. Malfurion is the leader of the CC, why hasn't he kicked out all the Tauren and Trolls yet?

    - The Wardens. Led by quite possible the most xenophobic Night Elf out there, yet they have no trouble working together with the Horde. Eventually bites them in the ass when Nathanos kills Sira and raises her as a forsaken.
    Because they think (read: know) there are bigger problems than faction wars to be dealt with, and think (read: know) that these problems cannot be fixed by only one faction's manpower alone.

  12. #412
    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    thats precisely what it means, he went searching the eredar essence, their magic, they detect that and follow then
    That's what you, for some reason, interpret it to mean. You quoted it yourself, the scouts searched the Twisting Nether. You claim that "searching" is the same as "following a trail precisely", which I really can't agree with. But if we can't agree on what "search" means, it's kind of pointless to continue discussing that at all.

    I also don't get why you keep bringing up what the orcs did. Is there some kind of compulsion to absolve the Orcs for something they did under the influence of literal demons?

  13. #413
    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    ... That doesn't mean anything. Of course Alexandros would be wearing the Scarlet Crusade tabard after the Scarlet Crusade has been formed.
    He was dead by the time it was established according to wowpedia meaning it would make sense for his spirit have it.

  14. #414
    Quote Originally Posted by Kiri View Post
    That's what you, for some reason, interpret it to mean. You quoted it yourself, the scouts searched the Twisting Nether. You claim that "searching" is the same as "following a trail precisely", which I really can't agree with. But if we can't agree on what "search" means, it's kind of pointless to continue discussing that at all.

    I also don't get why you keep bringing up what the orcs did. Is there some kind of compulsion to absolve the Orcs for something they did under the influence of literal demons?
    Well, how did the entire race of the orcs (or mostly as 99%) get under said influence? They got tricked (meaning they are total moron and bloodthirsty by nature as we saw with the Iron Horde), and Horde fans can't have that. Too bad, I really did like the way that Thrall did carve for his ppl but the writers did not follow it.

  15. #415
    Quote Originally Posted by Specialka View Post
    Well, how did the entire race of the orcs (or mostly as 99%) get under said influence? They got tricked (meaning they are total moron and bloodthirsty by nature as we saw with the Iron Horde), and Horde fans can't have that. Too bad, I really did like the way that Thrall did carve for his ppl but the writers did not follow it.
    Even before the Iron Horde, the various orcish clans were constantly fighting each other. Like Grommash said in the WoD trailer, "War. It is the lifeblood of this world."
    Expansion Storylines ranking:

    Legion > Cataclysm > MoP > BfA up to 8.2.5 > Wrath > TBC > WoD > Dragonflight > BfA 8.3 > Shadowlands

  16. #416
    Quote Originally Posted by Kiri View Post
    The issue is that you turn laziness on the side of the developers into character motivations, which is questionable. Blizzard changed the past capabilities of the Draenei afterwards, but didn't give a report on how that affects the flight of the Draenei. Your stance is to just say "nothing changed, the Draenei were just jerks about it". But that is meaningless as Blizzard didn't give us the revised history version of the flight yet.

    Just like we don't have official accounts as to how many species the Draenei interacted with. You just make an assumption that it has to be a lot of them. There isn't exactly a lot to debate there, you believe one thing, I say there is too little info to make any call. Pointless to discuss with someone who already made up their mind about an unknown.



    And it is a fact how? My information comes from Rise of the Horde, where it is described as Talgath coming across Draenor and only finding Draenei traces once there. Kil'Jaeden was looking for a race like the Orcs to begin with to corrupt, so with or without the Draenei being there, things would probably have developed similarly.

    This is the distinction here - the Draenei didn't bring the Legion somewhere, the Legion was searching for them on whatever world they could find. It's like Jaina and Thrall going to Kalimdor in WC3 and the Scourge and Burning Legion arriving there afterwards as well. That's not them 'bringing the doom', that's just people fleeing a wave of death and destruction and it catching up to them.

    I just don't get this apparent need to try and have the Draenei, victims of genocide, to be as bad as others who willingly commit genocide. Like with you constantly bringing up the orcish Horde for some reason. The Draenei have enough faults as it is and things to legitimately criticize them for, but blaming them for the actions of the Burning Legion is just kind of pointless. I'll never be convinced by that, simply because responsibility for a genocide lies with those who commit murder and slavery, not those who flee from it.
    As blizzard didn't before that comment really anything about it and that which they did contradict with info before its canon until stated otherwise like me'dan was canon until stated otherwise.

    there is no official but its more than likely there was atleast one planet which was inhabited and taken to account how many species earth has now (6-8 million)all of their blood in on the hand of draenai people so taken account that draenai people are responsible for all of it even if we low ball it to 1 million it would would worse than what orcs ever did as draenais did it knowingly.

  17. #417
    Quote Originally Posted by Terongor View Post
    As blizzard didn't before that comment really anything about it and that which they did contradict with info before its canon until stated otherwise like me'dan was canon until stated otherwise.

    there is no official but its more than likely there was atleast one planet which was inhabited and taken to account how many species earth has now (6-8 million)all of their blood in on the hand of draenai people so taken account that draenai people are responsible for all of it even if we low ball it to 1 million it would would worse than what orcs ever did as draenais did it knowingly.
    Again with that narrative. The people hiding and running from the Legion are responsible for all that the Legion does. Sure, whatever. This is getting tiresome, really. I'll never agree with it, because I don't blame the victims for the crimes of the perps. I know that is a hard concept to grasp. And you will not let go of your quest to somehow turn them into the villains. As per usual, discussions in the lore forums aren't going to change anyone's minds.

  18. #418
    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    Even before the Iron Horde, the various orcish clans were constantly fighting each other. Like Grommash said in the WoD trailer, "War. It is the lifeblood of this world."
    If we go by that logic almost the entire Dreanei/Eredar species embraced fel magic and their ways of conquerors willingly, pretty much their entire species is among the most rotten in the entire franchise, the draenei are the tiny exception and not the norm, heck in WoD you see that many among the Draenei would embrace the legion way, if given the chance today, as seen with the sargerei.

  19. #419
    Quote Originally Posted by Kiri View Post
    Again with that narrative. The people hiding and running from the Legion are responsible for all that the Legion does. Sure, whatever. This is getting tiresome, really. I'll never agree with it, because I don't blame the victims for the crimes of the perps. I know that is a hard concept to grasp. And you will not let go of your quest to somehow turn them into the villains. As per usual, discussions in the lore forums aren't going to change anyone's minds.
    I really do wonder how anyone could claim the draenei are the villains of the story and not the orcs. You couldn't misinterpret the WoW franchise more if you tried.
    Expansion Storylines ranking:

    Legion > Cataclysm > MoP > BfA up to 8.2.5 > Wrath > TBC > WoD > Dragonflight > BfA 8.3 > Shadowlands

  20. #420
    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    I really do wonder how anyone could claim the draenei are the villains of the story and not the orcs. You couldn't misinterpret the WoW franchise more if you tried.
    Because people judge the orcs as a whole, you have to apply that to the draenei as well, meaning including the eredar. The moment you do that the orcs couldn't reach the level of destruction the people of argus brought upon the universe, even if they continued to slaughter their way across world for the next 20k years.

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