Mega-Thread: Trump Focused Discussion

[cubby]

Combine



with



So: let's wait 15 days, or whatever, and see which state governors are willing to "open" because Trump said so. Let's see who's willing to put other people's lives on the line and kill their own constituents, for Trump's ego.

If I understand the data we're seeing so far, it's only going to be worse in 15 days. The country isn't in lockdown, so those half measures aren't what others are doing. And we have no medical supplies, including basic testing kits, so we have no idea what the rate is or where it's spread to.

[Thekri]

I think the wider point here is that bullshit cant save him this time. I saw something the other day that was better than most of the drivel ive read recently :

I think you underestimate the power of bullshit. I think it very likely can save him. I think it is incredibly naive to suggest that his actions here are so irredeemably bad as to finally sour his supporters on him.

It should. Of course it should. But just like every previous example, I don't think is actually having that effect. Each crisis raises the stakes, in lives and dollars, and each time he further alienates his supporters from reason and reality, and binds their fate ever closer to his own.

Trump is doing all the wrong things for saving lives, but I think he is doing all the right things to get him reelected in November. It might cost a few million lives and the entire economy, but I wouldn't rule out a Second Inaugural next January 20th.

[cubby]

No I think 25% of the nation becoming unemployed at best if not worse is worse than 2 to 4% dying yes.

That's insane. You literally have no idea what you're talking about. Just as a quick showcase of your ignorance:

Number of people who die each day in the U.S. overall: 7,452
Number of people you're suggesting is "ok" to die to "save the economy": 13,500,000
Total number of days that represents in normal U.S. deaths: 1,811 (or almost five years worth of deaths).

Can you please stop posting your drivel now?

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I think you underestimate the power of bullshit. I think it very likely can save him. I think it is incredibly naive to suggest that his actions here are so irredeemably bad as to finally sour his supporters on him.

It should. Of course it should. But just like every previous example, I don't think is actually having that effect. Each crisis raises the stakes, in lives and dollars, and each time he further alienates his supporters from reason and reality, and binds their fate ever closer to his own.

Trump is doing all the wrong things for saving lives, but I think he is doing all the right things to get him reelected in November. It might cost a few million lives and the entire economy, but I wouldn't rule out a Second Inaugural next January 20th.

Hell, it might even get the November election canceled altogether.

You're right though - bullshit can carry a lot. But when loved ones start dying in droves, and cities are decimated - that won't go away. People will still be seeing it a year from now.

[solinari6]

Why hasn't there been a big groundswelling to get Trump to resign so that someone competent can take over?

[Thekri]

Hell, it might even get the November election canceled altogether.

I doubt that. While I don't think his current actions are alienating his base (Or at least most of it), it isn't making him any new friends either. Most of the country still hates his guts, and deeply distrusts him. Attempting to stay in power without an election will bring about the sort of violence that our right wing friends on here have wet dreams about, only they won't like it so much when it actually arrives and they figure out that violence is actually really fucking horrible.

[cubby]

Why hasn't there been a big groundswelling to get Trump to resign so that someone competent can take over?

Because, like Hitler, he's "fired" all the competent people, and is now surrounded by sycophants who let him do whatever he wants, because they are either too stupid or too scared to contradict him.

[Acidbaron]

I doubt that. While I don't think his current actions are alienating his base (Or at least most of it), it isn't making him any new friends either. Most of the country still hates his guts, and deeply distrusts him. Attempting to stay in power without an election will bring about the sort of violence that our right wing friends on here have wet dreams about, only they won't like it so much when it actually arrives and they figure out that violence is actually really fucking horrible.

This is not going to make him any friends on the international stage. This is China's and Russia's turn to win over more Europeans.

[Shadowferal]

Hell, it might even get the November election canceled altogether.

He wants everything open in a few weeks.
Canceling the November elections would have to result from the opposite by keeping everything shut down.

[cubby]

He wants everything open in a few weeks.
Canceling the November elections would have to result from the opposite by keeping everything shut down.

I was trying to suggest that his actions will have a much more dire, longer term effect on the country, that the end results would be the November elections being canceled. Of course, that requires him to understand science, math, and time, which so far seem just out of reach for him.

[kaid]

He wants everything open in a few weeks.
Canceling the November elections would have to result from the opposite by keeping everything shut down.

Weird thing if he cancelled the elections we would wind up with president layhe. If there was no election all the house of reps would wind up being empty because their terms are up as would the president and vice president. Going down the line given the GOP has more seats open in senate than democrats very likely the senior member of the democrats senators would get it and I think that's layhe.

[Kiri]

It is hard to be knowledgeable on anything when you don't listen to anything. I don't know how anyone can think Trump can possibly manage or control these virus when he blatantly ignores the facts that people definitely told him.

One relatively trivial example is the two navy hospital ships, USNS Mercy and USNS Comfort. The Mercy was originally supposed to go support Washington, but was diverted to Southern California to support there. Trump then announced he was immediately sending the Comfort, which is on the east coast, to New York.

But Trump clearly doesn't have the slightest idea what these ships are, what they can do, and when they will be available. For one thing, they can't deal with contagious diseases, they are far too open for that. They are designed for the sort of mass trauma situations that come out of warzones, so they are floating hospitals built to handle massive numbers of gunshots, burns, and blast injuries. Putting a pandemic disease on board of one will have worse results then on a Cruise ship, they cannot fight Covid-19. What they can do, and why the Navy sent the Mercy in the first place, is to take the load off hospitals by handling all the usual trauma, burn, and generally non-infectious stuff that fill up hospital beds, so that the actual hospitals can focus on Corona-virus. Trump doesn't get this, and keeps promising miracles out of these ships.

The second issue, and one he keeps getting repeatedly corrected on, is that the Comfort will not be supporting New York for at least another 2 weeks. The ship was in the middle of a several month long maintenance period, and the Navy is throwing every asset they can to get her seaworthy as soon as possible, but it will still take a while. The even bigger issue is staffing these ships though. Without a full complement of doctors and nurses, she is basically a floating warehouse. Normally the Navy would staff these ships with the Naval Reserve (These are actually reserve ships), but Doctors in the Naval Reserve are always civilian doctors that go train with the Navy once a month. So taking doctors out of their normal operating rooms and putting them on ships is not helpful right now, since the medical emergency is actually in America. Again, the Navy is doing its best to staff it with active duty naval medical teams, but this isn't quick or easy. It will be a while before the Comfort is operational and helping New York.

All this is publicly available information. It is isn't hard. Someone must have told Trump this. But he keeps promising some sort of miracles out of these ships, like they can show up tomorrow and solve all your Pandemic problems. He can keep calling them the biggest and bestest hospitals ever, but that doesn't mean they can do what he says they can.

But this is what you get when you elect a Reality TV star as President. He doesn't like reality. He likes that scene in the end of the movie where the Navy shows up, and all the problems are over, and the next scene is just happy characters wrapping up their arcs before the credits roll. He wants to be a wartime president, but he really only likes the medals and the victory parades. He can't stand the unpleasantness of all the struggle and ugliness that comes before those things.

At this point he might as well just sell these Hospital Ships for $19.99, and if you call in the next five minutes, he will throw in a second Hospital Ship for Free! Call Now! (Offer not valid in New York or California)

The sad part is: it will work. These kinds of moves aren't there to sway his critics or those smart enough to understand the proper context/ramifications. That info might be publicly available, but getting it requires a) a little bit of work and b) an understanding how these sorts of things work. But this kind of move is designed to be used by Sinclair and Fox to deliver those who don't want to put in the effort to find out good sounding news. "Trump sends navy hospital ships to help" as a headline will sadly always beat informative posts such as yours -.-

[Sorshen]

https://twitter.com/atrupar/status/1242537995103846400

Trump on why he picked Easter as the day he wants to end strict social distancing and reopen American businesses: "Easter is a very special day for me ... Easter Sunday, and you'll have packed churches all over our country."

Running towards that ledge full speed

[Breccia]

Directly challenging the "by Easter" comment, Schumer announces the Democrats' plan will pay furloughed workers four months.

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Running towards that ledge full speed

Two weeks from this coming Sunday. Then, incubation time from there. Well, let's see what happens in 3-4 weeks.

[Poopymonster]

Two weeks from this coming Sunday. Then, incubation time from there. Well, let's see what happens in 3-4 weeks.

Lots of people might meet their deity of choice.

[alexw]

https://twitter.com/atrupar/status/1242537995103846400



Running towards that ledge full speed

I have tears in my eyes from laughter reading that quote. Am I a bad person?

[akris15]

https://twitter.com/PoliticsReid/sta...48985828319233

Liberty University will reopen this week, Jerry Falwell inviting students to return and ordering faculty to come back to work.

Just like Jonestown we are witnessing people drinking the Trump kool-aid in the public which means its going to be that much harder to get rid of the virus in a few months and when everyone has flatten the curve America will be the laughing stock of the world as they ignored science to appease their false idol. I find it ironic conservatives don't believe in evolution but they are gonna get a hard lesson in natural selection

[Levelfive]

That's insane. You literally have no idea what you're talking about. Just as a quick showcase of your ignorance:

Number of people who die each day in the U.S. overall: 7,452
Number of people you're suggesting is "ok" to die to "save the economy": 13,500,000
Total number of days that represents in normal U.S. deaths: 1,811 (or almost five years worth of deaths).

Can you please stop posting your drivel now?

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Hell, it might even get the November election canceled altogether.

You're right though - bullshit can carry a lot. But when loved ones start dying in droves, and cities are decimated - that won't go away. People will still be seeing it a year from now.

This is a letter sent in to Talking Points Memo--I thought I'd share it since we're seeing it play out right here:

"I wanted to write in with a different perspective than the one I’m seeing take hold among progressives. I work in oil and gas (yes; yes; I know. I’m sorry) and, as such, I interact with conservatives all the time. It’s interesting watching the conservative id coalesce as it does.

Initially, they have some diversity of opinion as new facts come to light and then they all eventually fall in line behind the command and control structure that is the conservative mind meld.

In the beginning, I saw a lot of what I think most people assumed was mainline conservative thinking: that the virus wasn’t a big deal; that it was just another H1N1 and we should just ignore it.

But, there was a second group that more closely aligned with this new Trump/Dan Patrick thinking. The comments I heard went something like this, “This is going to sound bad, but 2% really isn’t that many people and it’s mostly old people anyway. They’ve lived a good life. Overpopulation is a major problem and it will also help with social security.”

I’m writing in because I fear we are treating this as a more fringe idea than it actually is. I don’t think this is Trump reacting to his properties being forced to close or to a Fox News segment he saw. I think this has serious legs. …

It’s part Ebeenezer Scrooge morality; part inability/unwillingness to comprehend the scope of horror coronavirus is capable of inflicting on us. Of course, implicit in their thinking is that it won’t affect them.

We must be clear-eyed about what we’re up against. These people absolutely do not give a shit if 2.2 million people die. And they lack the imagination to understand what exceeding our hospital bed capacity by 30X looks like.

I really don’t think this is Trump sending out a trial balloon by himself. This is mainline Republican thinking and we should act accordingly."

https://talkingpointsmemo.com/edblog...or-the-economy

[Zan15]

And in my grand old state of Rhode Island it appears we are already almost out of money to support UI. The governor is now going the other way and has begun reopening daycare and they are pushing to keep vulnerable people out of harms way so we can reopen the economy. She sounded panicked today in her press conference as we only have 4 people hospitalized right now and 126 cases. This is why we need to reopen the economy the states cant handle this much UI

Then they borrow money and get repaid when unemployment is back below 5-6%. That is how the system works. Pay out when its high, bank/repay when its low

How can they almost be out of money when you had 10x the number of unemployed in 2009-2012.
such bullshit

Every plan in congress gives hundreds of billions in extra funding to UI, so stop spreading such drivel UI funding is not going to be a huge issue no more so than 2009-2012. They gave hundereds of billions last time and even doubled the number of weeks you could qualify for.

[Levelfive]

"In his Fox News town hall this afternoon President Trump said he needs good treatment or favors in return if states want the federal governments assistance as hospitals are overwhelmed with COVID-19 patients. Read the words and then watch them.

“Usually we’ll have 50 governors that will call it the same time. I think we are doing very well. But it’s a two-way street. They have to treat us well, also. They can’t say, “Oh, gee, we should get this, we should get that.” We’re doing a great job. Like in New York where we’re building, as I said, four hospitals, four medical centers. We’re literally building hospitals and medical centers. And then I hear that there’s a problem with ventilators. Well we sent them ventilators. And they could have had 15,000 or 16,000 – all they had to do was order them two years ago. But they decided not to do it. They can’t blame us for that.”

Here’s the video.

On Governors asking for help, Trump says, "It's a two way street they have to treat us well too." …. (realized i had wrong clip before) pic.twitter.com/gXM83TCUZR

— Josh Marshall (@joshtpm) March 24, 2020"

https://talkingpointsmemo.com/edblog/absorb-these-words

Our president, folks.

ETA: link to video https://twitter.com/joshtpm/status/1242533718620876800

[Breccia]

Once again it's time for Guess the Speaker!

Please do not take medical advice from a man who looked directly at a solar eclipse.

"That could be literally anyone."

It's Clinton, yes.

Also, here's another one:

[Starting March 15]Full-time employees are expected to report to the official worksite and duty station a minimum of three (3) days per week

"That's insane!"

Well, sort of. Trump's EPA had that rule written before the coronavirus outbreak started.

"Oh, so, like, December?"

No, Feb 27th.

"..."

Yep. For the record, the head of the EPA stopped this before it went into full swing. This is a case of poor judgement, not a suicide pact.

"So...it's going back into play around Easter, then?"

We'll find out together. If Trump's own administration chooses to stay at home, while asking others to come to work or church, well, that tells us something special, doesn't it?